Debaltseve Cauldron Still boiling as shelling continues...

www.cbc.ca...

Conflicting claims by both sides over the Debaltseve Cauldron....
The fighting is raging over this Ukrainian transport hub.....Thousands of UK Army soldiers are surrounded in this pocket......
House to house fighting continues in the town....(despite the brokered cease fire....)
Rebels claim the pocket is behind their front line therefore legal to continue to press for control.....
Full story and links to other peripheral info at link......

a reply to: stirling

I already put some stuff about the collapse of it over here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Mods will move or delete as nessessary.....meanwhile this update is the latest of the Debaltsevo news I have found in my country.....
The conflicting claims by both sides make it pertinent we see all the reports that can be mustered right now.....
The whole scenario has Stalingradish overtones don't you think?
I don't see a bunch of pissed off miners taking out a regular force without massive help from Russia.....I pity the grunts who are in the thick of it......U Army seems the most inept bunch of soldiers to date....
Either they are not led by competent officers, or the Rebels have been stiffened up with even more Russian army units....
This conclusion is looking more plausible every day....

a reply to: stirling

- The Separatists have been battle hardened over about 10 months of fighting and are motivated to the bone

- The Ukrainians have a lack of motivation and good field commanders because of the purge which went on last year

"All those Glories Victories of last may/half Aug by the UAF were just a bunch of propaganda."

Be that as it may....(I wont argue the point) the fighting is ongoing despite the cease fire...and this alone will serve to continue the war.....
Escalation will be forthcoming I believe,....whether its international involvement, or simply Russian invasion on flimsy pretexts I don't yet see.....
The ceasefire is ruined and the resons for continuing the fight well laid out for both sides.....
I expect that the Kiev government will begin to use even more desperate tactics and weapons sooner than later to stop the rebels.
White phosphorus, even chemical weapons are next on the list....
Cluster munitions too will be used to effect area denial in the future I think.....
The problem seems unsolveable...
There is too much history behind both sides...its as if the Second WW is being picked up again where it left off...the hatreds run too deep to stop the carnage and the PTB are taking advantage of those emotional responses of the people....

a reply to: stirling

What you are describing already has happened.

Incendiary weapons, cluster bombs and Tochka-U have already been used.

What has happened now twice is that UAF have been caught in a loop in the line, first Dontesk Airport and now Debaltseve, and they have kept pouring in soldiers and weapons to hold it at all cost.

Both pockets became slaughter houses.

Debaltseve was closed up over a week ago and with NAF holding the high grounds on both sides of the only road towards it, reachable by the Ukrainians, they got slaughtered in trying to breach towards the surrounded pocket.

UAF tried to attack it with its last reserves, right after Minsk 2 was signed and right after the cease fire went in plus at a number of other occasions the last couple of days.

It's just such a terrible situation for Ukrainians. They are a really nice and fun loving people. It's like watching a family rip itself apart over money and power. Countries will regret not helping more because this Ukraine situation will be repeated in another country within the next 5 years. Eventually the world will have to take on a nuclear armed state. There simply isn't an alternative when they keep carving off pieces of other countries around them.

It does seem as if the entire world leadership are either incompetent bumbling idiots
Or they are taking orders from somebody with a destructive agenda for mankind....
The amount of stupid ill thought out things these boneheads come up with is beyond reason....
Either we are being kept entirely ignorant by the MSM, to facilitate this,.......
or they too are equally bumbling idiots.....somehow I doubt the latter....
Putin is a 40 billionaire....in fact Russia is run by billionaires...
Likewise the USA and Europe are also run by billionaires....
Looks to me like its their call, this entire world war 3 scenario.....

a reply to: stirling

Kiev is not going to use any sort of WMD any more than Russia will. Using those weapons would mean the end of any support for the Ukraine government.

There is also the unknown on whether lethal aid will be provided. I know some countries have started sending lethal aid, much to the irritation of Russia who thinks its the only nation who can send arms to this mess.

I am curious how Russia will respond to those nations sending lethal aid to Ukraine.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Kiev will do whatever it thinks will ensure its survival.....
If they have already used WP, and missiles, whats to stop them using whatever else they may have .....................

a reply to: stirling

What is wp?

Ukraine has requested UN peace keepers to ensure the cease fire is implemented for both sides. Naturally the rebels, and by rebels I mean Russians, don't like this idea.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Of course not, because Kiev once again tries to get out of the obligations it has admitted itself to.

There are rumours there were lots of foreigners in the Debaltsevo pocket trapped, they are not looking to have new foreigners again, they don`t trust them. Minsk 2 says clearly all foreigners should withdraw.

Here is some news on the situation, looks rather grim for the UA army troops there.
I think its good that they are allowing people to surrender, and arent just murdering surrendering troops.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

and yet Russian military remains in Ukraine.

The Minks agreement made absolutely no exception to the cease fire for the rebels / Russians continuing their attack until the town was captured.

secondly the Russians / rebels are still continuing their attacks on the north side of the zone.

The head of the "DPR" stated he was not opposed to peacekeepers.