British SAS soldiers told save the last bullet for yourself; Don't be taken alive by ISIS

a reply to: Anyafaj

Definitely! The damned internet makes us jump to conclusions and I apologise for misreading your comment.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Anyafaj

Definitely! The damned internet makes us jump to conclusions and I apologise for misreading your comment.

No, the fault is mine for not making it clearer to begin with. All is good, I hope.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Anyafaj

Fair play to them.

Nobody in their right mind would want to be captured alive by IS. Taxi drivers and military are all subject to torture and beheading.

God only knows what they would do to someone from England, or worse, a soldier from the US.

It might 'worse' in your patriotic eyes, but torture won't be less painful to other nationalities. Burned alive, tortured or beheaded won't be any easier for non-Americans.

Normaly im the first to point out US patrotic bs

But i dont think that is what he meant.

I think the point way they were makeing sure the torture would be longer and more brutal.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Anyafaj

Fair play to them.

Nobody in their right mind would want to be captured alive by IS. Taxi drivers and military are all subject to torture and beheading.

God only knows what they would do to someone from England, or worse, a soldier from the US.

It might 'worse' in your patriotic eyes, but torture won't be less painful to other nationalities. Burned alive, tortured or beheaded won't be any easier for non-Americans.

Normaly im the first to point out US patrotic bs

But i dont think that is what he meant.

I think the point way they were makeing sure the torture would be longer and more brutal.

Yes. I was trying to find a way to say it without pointing out ideas for IS. They truly don't need anymore right now. (And it's She, BTW. Anya is Hungarian for Mother.)

Basically the point is that it is finally being recognized that soldiers are being sent to fight an enemy that holds to none of the civilized rules of war at all. If you get caught, you cannot expect to be rescued and you cannot expect anything resembling civilized treatment, and they will draw it out before they let you die. And they WILL use it to their own best advantage.

While I can say that it is about time our military commanders come to terms with this reality, it is also chilling.

originally posted by: Indigoism
a reply to: Bedlam

Isis has existed for the past 3 years, probably even longer than that

I saw this back in '89. I'm pretty sure they weren't there then. Sawed the guy's head right off, on VHS.

eta: these SAS guys were skulking around and one got caught, this was about six months prior to GW1. There were all sorts of Wahhabist/fundamentalist guys in the area even before the recent series of hostilities, and the SAS guys weren't Semitic enough looking, one got caught and zip! off with his head. It was probably really motivational not to get caught actually not being a tourist or oil company engineer or whatever you were pretending to be.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Basically the point is that it is finally being recognized that soldiers are being sent to fight an enemy that holds to none of the civilized rules of war at all. If you get caught, you cannot expect to be rescued and you cannot expect anything resembling civilized treatment, and they will draw it out before they let you die. And they WILL use it to their own best advantage.

While I can say that it is about time our military commanders come to terms with this reality, it is also chilling.

When it comes to these guys, there is no such thing as a "Geneva Convention". The sad thing is it took our leaders this long to recognize just how brutal an enemy we are fighting. That or they knew, they just didn't want to announce it out loud.

a reply to: Anyafaj

If there is a hope of defeating this we are going to have to fight them on their terms. Basically, Washington won the American Revolution because the British held to the rules of what they recognized as civilized warfare in their day and the Americans under Washington used different tactics better suited to their smaller numbers and their weaponry.

If we don't fight them if ways to counter what they're doing and willing to do, they can win no matter how many more of us there may be or how much better equipped we may be.

That is sound advice for any member of any military fighting against these ass hats. Were I still in the army and was sent over there, I'd have the same plan myself. Knowing who and what ISIS or other groups of savages are and what they do, I would never allow myself to be taken alive, and would go out fighting. There are many reasons for this. For starters, I am female, so I don't need to go into the extra horrors that would await me, on top of the normal torture. I also have no desire to be a tool for the Islamic militant propaganda machine. I would also be sparing my family the horrors and stress a hostage situation would entail.

Were my suicide via kamikaze plan to fail and I was taken alive, I would still hope my government and it's allies would not hesitate to launch massive airstrikes against wherever I was being held. I would be honored to die in such a strike, knowing that I am taking as many of my foes with me as possible.

But being taken alive is the worst possible choice any foreigner can make.

ISIS torturing and beheading, stoning, throwing people off buildings, burning them. A bunch of psychos that need to be removed from the world. I don't buy all this "creation of the CIA", or "the west wants them to keep going" blabberings. In fact, I think most people in authority are shocked by this barbarity and are working to end it, without putting troops in harms way.

The sad fact is that the US have lost the moral high ground, as they have been found to have tortured people. Granted, the type of torture is different, but torture is torture, whether it's done by the cold hand of a CIA psych-operator, or some nut-job muttering Allah-Akbar all the time.

Regards

a reply to: ketsuko

Basically the point is that it is finally being recognized that soldiers are being sent to fight an enemy that holds to none of the civilized rules of war at all. If you get caught, you cannot expect to be rescued and you cannot expect anything resembling civilized treatment, and they will draw it out before they let you die. And they WILL use it to their own best advantage.

It seems like all sides have lost the sense of security that the Geneva Conventions brought to conflict. Abu Graib and 'extraordinary rendition' cases involving 'rectal feeding' are as useful for IS propaganda as the beheadings and tortures are for western propaganda.

I'm not trying to equate something like Guantanamo Bay or rectal feeding to the savagery of IS. The point I hope to make is that 'civilized treatment' is lacking on all sides and inspires more conflict.

If these instructions are true who could be surprised know what we do of IS?Prayers to all people fighting these beasts.

Anyway even if a SAS member was kidnapped IS would likely not know it.

One of the first rules of being in a SF unit is you don't have anything that identify you as part of a SF unit.

All ISIS will know is they have a a captive with a British ascent.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Anyafaj
One source said last night: “The SAS have been told that if they are captured they can expect to be tortured before being beheaded, disembowelled or burned alive. They know there is virtually no chance of being rescued.

God only knows what they would do to someone from England, or worse, a soldier from the US.

Well, it wasn't ISIS (they didn't exist then) but I've seen (unfortunately) a recording of an SAS operator being beheaded by their brethren. It's not something you want to watch, or contemplate happening to YOU.

where and when?

This isn't anything new. In case nobody knows the last place any trooper worked and wasn't at risk of being beheaded or tortured to death was the Falklands and before that the deserts of north Africa.

Only place I've heard of that was Yemen and it was years ago.

Just to say, the MOD don't tend to comment on special forces tactics...so i'd imagine this is just something made up by the paper to sound dramatic enough to fill a coloumn.....which leads me on to the newspaper itself.

The Daily Star....sigh.

Only one step up from the Sunday Sport.

Give it time and Jihadi John will be outed as Elvis who started ISIS when his new career as a chip shop assistant went pear shaped.

CX.

originally posted by: CX
Just to say, the MOD don't tend to comment on special forces tactics...so i'd imagine this is just something made up by the paper to sound dramatic enough to fill a coloumn.....which leads me on to the newspaper itself.

The Daily Star....sigh.

Only one step up from the Sunday Sport.

Give it time and Jihadi John will be outed as Elvis who started ISIS when his new career as a chip shop assistant went pear shaped.

CX.

that's exactly what it is. Made up crap to fill a page in a paper.

a reply to: Anyafaj

That's rather defeatist isn't it?

Surely it would be a better idea for SAS men to kill the enemy till the bullets run out, and then take so many of them out with whatever knives and other gear they might carry on their person, that the enemy literally cannot even contemplate a method of capturing the men, and shoot them instead? An even better plan. When the bullets run out, kill the enemy with melee weapons, and then take their guns, and use them on the enemy?

Bravo two zero.......G WAR.....whole SAS team went down.....except for one man....

This is not uncommon.

In Afghanistan it was a similar story. You're basically told to not get captured. If you did, you wouldn't be kept until then end of the conflict. Instead, you'd be transferred around to a safe location, filmed a few times, then beheaded by knife a couple of days later.

SAS/SBS that are there are more than likely acting as forward air controllers for air strikes or as training consultants for the Kurds.