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The Aisha Myth

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posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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You cannot get into any discussion about hadith with anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim, without eventually encountering the widely quoted, and incessantly justified hadith which claims that A’isha [ra] was betrothed (engaged) to the Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] at the age of 6, and later married to him at the age of 9.

Because this hadith is found in the Sahih Bukhari collection, Muslims have managed to accept it as pure fact, without any real investigation, and have even gone as far as dancing around it so much, that they have essentially found ways to rationalize and justify its truth.

The explanation that is known to many Muslims goes like this:

"A’isha [ra] was an exceptionally intelligent, young woman, with an excellent, precise memory, and could be raised to absorb the teachings of the prophet, in order to convey that knowledge to a wider audience, even after he passed away"

Others go like this:

"Well, at that time...... It was totally normal for girls to marry at such a young age but you know... since society has developed, things have changed and girls marry at a later age."

With that logic it is should be perfectly fine for me to say " I don't have to follow the Prophets doings, such as growing a beard because society has changed. Most men shave today in the civilized world, and you know..... things have changed because my work place don't allow it."
I'd get shunned for saying this.

So why is not OK for me to follow the Prophets doings(sunnah) to its fullest by marrying a six year old (according to this ahadith) but must grow a beard? That's like claiming to follow the ten commandments and then leave one out.
I have yet to see, in this day and age, a grown man marrying a six year old.Yes, I even questioned a devout Muslims friend of mine, if he was prepared to marry a six year old and refused but came up with the same excuse above. Heck, it even contradicts the Quran.


So here is some to refute

EVIDENCE # 2 Betrothal

According to Tabari (also according to Hisham ibn ‘urwah, Ibn Hunbal and Ibn Sad), Ayesha was betrothed at seven years of age and began to cohabit with Prophet at the age of nine years. However, in another work, Al- Tabari says:

"All four of his [Abu Bakr's] children were born of his two wives -- the names of

whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period."(REF: Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari (died 922), Vol. 4, p. 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979)



If Ayesha was betrothed in 620 CE (at the age of 7 years) and started to live with Prophet in 624 CE or 2 AH (at the age of nine years), she was born in 613 CE [(Year of living with Prophet MINUS Ayesha’a age at that time of living with Prophet EQUALS the date of birth of Ayesha (624CE – 9 yrs = 613 CE)]. So, based on one account of Al-Tabari the numbers show that Ayesha must have born (613 CE) three years after the beginning of revelation (610 CE). And yet another place Tabari says that Ayesha was born in Pre-Islamic time (in Jahilliyyah). If she were born in pre-Islamic time (before 610 CE), she would have be at least 14 years old. So, Tabari contradicts himself.

CONCLUSION: Al-Tabari is unreliable in the matter of determining Ayesha’s age.



EVIDENCE # 3 The Age of Ayesha in Relation to the Age of Fathima.



According to According to Ibn Hajar,

“ Fatimah (ra) was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old... she (Fatimah) was five years older that Ayesha (ra).” (REF: Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol. 4, P. 377, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978)



So, based on Ibn Hajar, Fathima was born when Prophet was 35 years old and Ayesha was 5 years younger than Fathima. If Ibn Hajar’s statement is factual, Ayesha was born when Prophet was forty years old (Prophet’s age at the birth of Fathima PLUS 5 years = 40 years). If Ayesha was married to Prophet when he was 52 years old, Ayesha’ age at marriage would be 12 years [(Prophet’s age at the time of marriage MINUS Prophet’s age at Ayesha’s birth (52 yrs – 40 years = 12 yrs)].



CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar, Tabari an Ibn Hisham and Ibn Humbal contradict each other. So, the marriage of Ayesha at seven years of age is a myth.





EVIDENCE # 4 The Age of Ayesha in Relation to the Age of Asma

According to Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd:

“Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (REF: Siyar A`la'ma'l-nubala', Al-Zahabi, Vol. 2, p. 289, Arabic, Mu'assasatu'l-risalah, Beirut, 1992)



According to Ibn Kathir:

"She [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years". (REF: Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, p. 371, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)



According to Ibn Kathir:

"She [Asma] saw the killing of her son during that year [i.e. 73 AH], as we have already mentioned, and five days later she herself died. According to other narratives she died not after five days but ten or twenty or a few days over twenty or a hundred days later. The most well known narrative is that of hundred days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old." (REF: Al-Bidayah wa'l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir (died 1333), Vol. 8, Pg. 372, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)



According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani:

"She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (REF: Taqribu'l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi'l-nisa', al-harfu'l-alif, Lucknow)



According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). If Asma was 100 years old in 73 AH, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijra [ Asma’s age MINUS 73 hijrah EQUALS the age of Asma at the time of Hijrah( 100 – 73 or 74 = 27 or 28)].



If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of Hijrah, Ayesha (ra), being younger by 10 years, should have been 17 or 18 years old [Asma’s age at the time of Hijarah MINUS the age difference between Asma and Ayesha EQUALS the age of Ayesha at the time of Hijarh (27 or 28 –10 = 17 or 18 yrs)]. Thus, Ayesha (ra), being 17 or 18 years of at the time of Hijra, she started to cohabit with Prophet between 19 to 20 years old (The Age of Ayesha at the time of Hijra + the year of Ayesha cohabiting with Prophet (19-20 + 1-2 Hijra) = The Age of Ayesha when she cohabit with Prophet (19 or 20 years).



Based on Hajar, Ibn Katir, and Abda'l-Rahman ibn abi zanna'd, age of Ayesha at the time living with Prophet would be 19or 20 years. In evidence # 3, Ibn Hajar suggests that Ayesha is 12 years old and in evidence # 4 he contradicts himself with a seventeen or eighteen-year-old Ayesha (ra). What is the correct age, twelve or eighteen?

CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar is an unreliable source for Ayesha’s age.



www.irfi.org...
edit on 16-2-2015 by Boeing777 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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Salam Alaykum Boeing...


An interesting debate is gonna take place I reckon.


But it's a fallacious & sinister myth in my opinion.

Usually brought up in some last ditch attempt to discredit discussion about Islam or Muhammad (pbuh)...



Bear in mind, I sat on this particular notion for 2 years before converting...

There was no way, with any conscience or faith in God, I would accept such a Revelation on my journey towards enlightenment.


I studied night and day, proof reading every available source I could find on the subject...
The yes's & no's...

Nothing I could find was credible...
Even the Hadith.



I came to the conclusion it was a myth...
Worse...

A lie to discredit.


Firstly, it's sole source, is from someone born 178 years after Muhammad passed away.



Secondly, the argument that "it was common at the time" doesn't stand up in my opinion...

Arabic men burying their daughters alive in the sand...
To appease God/Gods for a son, was also common at the time...

Muhammad expressed that these transgressions would be their downfall on Judgement Day...



So really, he doesn't appear to be a conformist to the status quo of the time...

I see no reason to believe he would for child marriage either.

Especially when teaching that children, all children, are precious and need to be protected.




Thirdly, let's put this into context...

The whole age debate is a way of calling Muhammad a... Whatchamacallit...

If true, why would his other wives all have been of a normal age...

I mean, it was "conmon" at the time, he had no reason to have a "trophy" wife/wives to disguise any lewd thoughts towards children...



Nope... Fallacious.


The rumour spreaders he warned about didn't take long to try and discredit him.





& in keeping with ATS tradition...

For anyone who believes the lie...


Proof... Or it didn't happen!



Peace.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Wa-Alaikum-Salaam Charlie.

This is by far the greatest lie I have ever come across in my life. This fabricated ahadith made me leave Islam after I converted but came back after realizing that this ahadith is merely a sinister lie. It contradicts everything in the Quran and everything the Prophet (PBUH) lived for. He was God's mercy on earth and the ultimate role model to mankind and to see the majority of Muslims chant and teach this fallacious lie is disheartening, not to mention the Islamophobes who love to use this lie to demonize Islam and the Prophet (PBUH). We live in an age of deception and it's not getting any better.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: Boeing777

You can wrap a turd in gold-leaf decorations and spray it with the finest perfume money can buy - doesn't change the fact that it is still a turd.

Either Mohammed married a 9-year old female or he did not.

Wahhabism, and the Hadith, IMO, needs reforming otherwise the West will always view Mohammed as a pedophile.

"It is easier to fool a person, than it is to convince them that they have been fooled"



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Boeing777

You can wrap a turd in gold-leaf decorations and spray it with the finest perfume money can buy - doesn't change the fact that it is still a turd.

Either Mohammed married a 9-year old female or he did not.

Wahhabism, and the Hadith, IMO, needs reforming otherwise the West will always view Mohammed as a pedophile.

"It is easier to fool a person, than it is to convince them that they have been fooled"








Well that escalated quickly.

Doesn't "betrothed" mean "engaged to be wed?" Arranged marriages are common throughout the world, and often people are "betrothed" at a very early age. Doesn't mean some old man is getting nasty with a child.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 07:09 PM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Boeing777

Either Mohammed married a 9-year old female or he did not.

Wahhabism, and the Hadith, IMO, needs reforming otherwise the West will always view Mohammed as a pedophile.







That won't happen until Muslims wake up. Again, there's no evidence Muhammad married a prepubescent child and that's what I'm standing by.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: Boeing777

Yep I was eager to convert, then I came upon things at random making the claim...

Usually Islamophobes on Twitter trying to stifle debate.

Whenever debates got too tough for them, out came the lie as some sort of "gotcha moment"...

I don't even know if these people truly believe that...


Why have an hour long debate and when you fall flat come out with such...

Why not start the debate with that and ignore the rest?



At the moment, I'm a Quranist...
I haven't read all the Hadith, until I do I can't call myself a Sunni/Shia.

& I'm not the sort of person to take some clerics word for everything...

When I took Shahada the Imam at the Masjid told me my relationship with Allah was my own...
So that's how I will embark.

If I find a Hadith that doesn't contradict the Quran, I'll give it credence...
If it does contradict, I see no reason to accept it.

& I have no doubts that Allah will be forgiving if I choose to live solely by the Quran for now.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 08:20 PM
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Whether he married a child or not for Islam this doesnt look good.
On 1 hand you have the Prophet acting in a way that most normal people today find abhorrent and if the mental disorder known as religion wasnt warping peoples minds this fact alone would discredit him enough to make any good works he did or wisdom he left behind irrelevant

OR

The Koran which the majority of Muslims hold up to be pure and literally correct in everything is as fallible as the Christian bible and up for interpretation and scrutiny as its obviously false in parts.
If this is wrong then what else is????

A relationship with God is a wonderful thing, organised religion is a cancer and a repository for the weak willed and gullible in my opinion



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 08:38 PM
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a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

This rumour about Aisha's age is not in the Quran.


I've not found anything fallible in the Quranic verses either.

It's nothing like The (current version of) Bible.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

This rumour about Aisha's age is not in the Quran.


I've not found anything fallible in the Quranic verses either.

It's nothing like The (current version of) Bible.


Are you playing semantics here and saying the hadiths are not part of the Koran or are you saying that the ages of 7 and 9 are nowhere to be found in the book called the Koran and those ages are in fact an oral traditions?



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 08:50 PM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Boeing777

You can wrap a turd in gold-leaf decorations and spray it with the finest perfume money can buy - doesn't change the fact that it is still a turd.

Either Mohammed married a 9-year old female or he did not.


He did.
www.answering-islam.org...



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 09:16 PM
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Maybe she was older or maybe she was not. Either way the damage is done and the belief that he did marry her young and had sex with her, makes some people use that belief as justification for marrying young girls.

The problem is not today what he did or did not do. The problem is what kind of role model he is for the people who follow him. And if I look at his actions during his life I am not impressed with the violence that occurred by him and his followers, that people can use to justify insane behavior.
edit on 16-2-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

The Hadith are not part of the Quran.

I don't know how that is semantics, it is common knowledge.


I'm saying both...

& those oral traditions are fallible.


The Quran isn't.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 09:18 PM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

No need to go back to 600AD to find so called pedophiles when you can find them much closer to your time frame and location. Under English common law in 1895 the age of consent was only 7 years in Delaware and 10yo in most other states of US.

The big difference between 600AD Islam and 18th century english laws was that it was illegal under Islam to have sexual relations with a female that hadn't reach puberty (married or not) which I think is better than saying its ok to marry and have sex with a 7YO.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 09:21 PM
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You then have people believing such nonsense, and trying to do the same

www.dailytelegraph.com.au... s/story-fni0cx12-1227215985202


A 12-YEAR-OLD bride was found to be pregnant after the 27-year-old man she had ­“married” in an Islamic ceremony was charged with child sex offences. The man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was initially charged with 25 counts of having sexual intercourse with a child in February last year. He later pleaded guilty to one count of persistent sexual abuse of a child, which carries a 25-year maximum jail ­sentence. The statement of facts, ­which was tendered during his sentencing hearing in the Downing Centre District Court yesterday, revealed that soon after the man was charged, the girl was taken for a medical examination. The girl, who is now 14, was suffering from “sharp right lower abdominal pain” and medical tests revealed that she was having “an ectopic pregnancy and miscarried”, court papers said.Text


A very sick religion



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 09:22 PM
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a reply to: hellobruce

He didn't!



Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six.



She didn't even know her own age???

Pull the other one...


False myth... A lie...

& the Hadith compilers couldn't get their story straight without contradicting each other.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 09:26 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce
You then have people believing such nonsense, and trying to do the same

www.dailytelegraph.com.au... s/story-fni0cx12-1227215985202


A 12-YEAR-OLD bride was found to be pregnant after the 27-year-old man she had ­“married” in an Islamic ceremony was charged with child sex offences. The man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was initially charged with 25 counts of having sexual intercourse with a child in February last year. He later pleaded guilty to one count of persistent sexual abuse of a child, which carries a 25-year maximum jail ­sentence. The statement of facts, ­which was tendered during his sentencing hearing in the Downing Centre District Court yesterday, revealed that soon after the man was charged, the girl was taken for a medical examination. The girl, who is now 14, was suffering from “sharp right lower abdominal pain” and medical tests revealed that she was having “an ectopic pregnancy and miscarried”, court papers said.Text


A very sick religion



I agree, I don't know how anyone can follow the word of a pedophile.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

She didn't even know her own age???


I presume she lost her birth certificate, and did not have a fax machine to get a new one sent to her....

Keep trying to cover up for a evil paedophile.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 09:56 PM
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I have a very hard time with Muhammad as a holy one, since Aisha is not the only time Muhammad takes wives that he wants and "makes god" create excuses for his less than moral behavior. This is not in the same league as Jesus, Nanak, Buddha and Rumi.



Zaynab bint Jahsh married to his adoptive son Zayd ibn Harithah.


en.wikipedia.org...



Rayhana bint Zayd[edit]
In 626, Rayhana bint Zayd, was a Jewish woman enslaved along with other after the defeat of the Banu Qurayza tribe. Her relationship with Muhammed is disputed. The sources regarding her status differ as to whether she was a concubine or whether she eventually married him. Most of the sources reveal that she was a slave woman.[33]




Juwayriyya bint al-Harith[edit]
One of the captives from the skirmish with the Banu Mustaliq was Juwayriyya bint al-Harith, who was the daughter of the tribe's chieftain. Her husband, Mustafa bin Safwan, had been killed in the battle. She initially fell among the booty of Muhammad's companion Thabit b. Qays b. Al-Shammas. Upon being enslaved, Juwayriyya went to Muhammad requesting that she - as the daughter of the lord of the Mustaliq - be released, however the Prophet refused. Meanwhile her father approached Muhammad with ransom to secure her release, but Muhammed still refused to release her. Muhammad then offered to marry her, and she accepted.[49] When it became known that tribes persons of Mustaliq were kinsmen of the prophet of Islam through marriage, the Muslims began releasing their captives.[50] Thus, Muhammad's marriage resulted in the freedom of nearly one hundred families whom he had recently enslaved.[51]




Muhammad's widows

Grave of the wives of Muhammad in al-Baqīʿ Cemetery, Medina.
According to the Qur'an, God forbade anyone to marry the wives of Muhammad, because of their respect and honour, after he died.

Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time.[Quran 33:53]


Seems more like a very promiscuous person who cannot keep his hands of other people wives and make own rules for his lack of real moral behavior.
edit on 16-2-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 10:01 PM
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a reply to: hellobruce

Yep sure...



Proof... Or it didn't happen!



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