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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Jonjonj
Mars has "pocket" magnetic fields.
www.esa.int...
Probably? Not really. The clouds are nearly certainly composed of CO2 or water ice. How would outgassing account for the formation of the clouds?
So then, taking everything into account, some kind of outgassing could probably be the cause.
Why?
they surely must know more than they let on.
I wouldn't say it contradicts but it does indicate that something is going. Something that we don't know about.
There is clearly something going on here, clearly it shows that there is something about the atmosphere which contradicts what science has believed for decades.
Because there is no ready explanation for a given phenomenon, it means that everything we think we know about Mars is wrong?
Like I said though, fascinating, and it shows that what we thought we knew about Mars may have been wrong
Many (including scientists) agree with you.
And yes, I also agree that the notion of life on Mars is not so far fetched.
originally posted by: Phage
I wouldn't say it contradicts but it does indicate that something is going. Something that we don't know about.
originally posted by: PhageBecause there is no ready explanation for a given phenomenon, it means that everything we think we know about Mars is wrong?
originally posted by: PhageMany (including scientists) agree with you.
Please cite a claim that high altitude clouds cannot exist on Mars. The atmosphere of Mars has been and is being studied with quite a bit of detail. So, do you think that the studies are just wrong?
The belief up until now is that the amosphere is far too thin to be able to produce phenomena like that seen in these images.
"Admitted" what is wrong? Yes, they say they don't really know what's causing the clouds (they aren't even 100% sure what they are) but that's not really the same thing as saying it isn't possible. The letter looks at two scenarios which have been suggested. Yes, they say that it's probably not an aurora. Yes, they don't think dust could lift that high under the conditions they have observed (but then, they don't seem to have considered some form of electrostatic levitation).
Clearly, this is wrong. They admit that this is wrong, they have admitted that what is being witnessed is not explainable given the beliefs we had.
Once again, I ask for a citation that the formation of high altitude clouds is not possible. It's been claimed in this thread, but to say that the only possible explanation is that the atmosphere on Mars is actually thicker than we think is not really a very reasonable approach and it's not the way science works.
Therefore the beliefs we had about what is and what is not possible were wrong.
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Jonjonj
Probably? Not really. The clouds are nearly certainly composed of CO2 or water ice. How would outgassing account for the formation of the clouds?
So then, taking everything into account, some kind of outgassing could probably be the cause.
Why?
they surely must know more than they let on.
What sort of gasses? I wonder what might cause those clouds to not condense at lower altitudes. The atmosphere of Mars is pretty cold, after all.
Outgassing as in the sudden eruption of gases caused by heating of an area of terrain with the suitable characteristics necessary to create such a phenomena. Clouds can be formed in this way.
That is the opinion of those who wrote the letter which we are discussing. There aren't a lot of other options, maybe you could offer some.
I am glad you are nearly certainly sure of the composition.
Yes. "They" tell "us" pretty much everything that the general public may find interesting. There is a lot of stuff that the general public would be not interested in, in the least. But for those who are interested there is stuff being published all the time.
They don't tell us everything they find out, am I wrong?
originally posted by: ChristosteroneA plume extending 200 km in the Martian atmosphere. A phenomenon heretonow considered impossible due to Mars is extremely tin atmosphere.
Mars' atmosphere would be much less. Whatever is in that image is partly outside of Mars' atmosphere.
Oxygen for example, under extreme pressure, released after a sudden thaw.
Yes, indeed.
If oxygen or other gases can be found freely in the subsurface of Mars that is a game changer as far as viability is concerned.
originally posted by: VoidHawk
I'm a firm believer that Mars has more of an atmosphere than we are being led to believe.
The dust in that picture ought to fall quite rapidly without an atmosphere, does anyone know how long it was there?
originally posted by: CryHavoc
originally posted by: ChristosteroneA plume extending 200 km in the Martian atmosphere. A phenomenon heretonow considered impossible due to Mars is extremely tin atmosphere.
I'd say it's impossible. Earth's atmosphere is only about 70 miles thick or just over 100 km. Mars' atmosphere would be much less. Whatever is in that image is partly outside of Mars' atmosphere.