White House REFUSES To Call 21 Beheading Victims CHRISTIANS In Statement Against ISIS Attack

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Gryphon66

people can claim any special knowledge they want. you can't stop that. it's part of our right as autonomous beings, to have our own thoughts and beliefs about the world around us. this is why we are individuals and not one big insect colony. resistance is NOT futile.

I'm not trying to stop anyone from having beliefs. (???)

I'm stating my position on the issue at hand, and the facts that have formed my understanding of same.

Again, it seems that you think that disagreement is ... abusive, controlling, rude, etc.

And again, you're just talking to me about your perception of me. What does that have to do with the topic? I still have seen no proof, evidence, or anything else from you, DED, or anyone that demonstates that the White House's announcment was intended somehow to deny that these latest victims were Christians. The video states that outright. Such a comment is unnecessary, except for folks who will find fault with ANYTHING this President does. Obama has been very clear about the terrorist nature of ISIS, the fact that they have targeted minority religious groups (in every country in which they operate, Christians ARE a minority group, as are Yezidi, Jews, Unitarian Universalists, etc.

You want to talk about your personal fear of what you see as increasing violence across the globe against Christians. You want to blame Islam for this. That position, in my opinion, is nonsensical and not based on any evidence. Of course you can "believe" what you want. That doesn't make your belief "true" for anyone but you.

Physician, heal thyself.

people often complain about the thousands of different religious sects. that's actually a good thing as it is evidence that we are truly autonomous, and we interact with the divine/the universe/our personal realities, independent of each other in a healthy way (unless otherwise damaged). it's only when one group decides only their interpretation is suitable for everyone, that trouble starts (granted, i believe that is because our autonomy has a flaw as we lack full revelation, and as a result, can make less than stellar decisions. i believe jesus is full revelation, but on an individual level, as each person is autonomous and not a borg. and that's my autonomous right to believe, thank you very much.)

Undo, if you're talking to me, I've never told you that you can't believe whatever you wish.

If you have autonomy, so do I. If you have the right to "believe" whatever you wish, so do I.

What's the problem? What's the disconnect? Why do you keep repeating the same thing?

I chose to base my reality on provable, explainable, comprehensible, measurable FACTS as much as I can. That reality is what I argue from.

I have not claimed infallibility, that was another poster.

Belief does not affect the correctness/incorrectness of facts.

Now, please, what does your point about "everyone has the right to believe what they want as autonomous beings" have to do with whether President Obama has refused to acknowledge that ISIS has killed Egyptian seeking work who were Copts, yet, where was the outcry when no comment was made about the religion of the Jordanian pilot, or the Japanese war tourists. There is no basis for that accusation. Why should there be special pleading for Christian victims?

That's the course of the thread, not exposition on the fundamental rights of human belief (which no one here is challenging.)

a reply to: Gryphon66

i pick up on key phrases, such as your interpretation of yhwh, which doesn't sound like it's actually your own, as i've heard it thousands of times already just on ats alone, mostly from people who are too afraid to recognize that the old testament is a jewish book. we christians are elected to defend torah, whether we fully agree with it or not. i am one who doesn't believe torah is entirely about god or jesus. i have a bit of the sitchinite in me, but only to a degree because i'm autonomous and not a mindless borg. i don't go about quoting the authority of some learned scientist, higher critic, college professor, pope, imam or pastor. individual. i am an individual. you cannot change that.

can you spell "meme?"

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Gryphon66

i pick up on key phrases, such as your interpretation of yhwh, which doesn't sound like it's actually your own, as i've heard it thousands of times already just on ats alone, mostly from people who are too afraid to recognize that the old testament is a jewish book. we christians are elected to defend torah, whether we fully agree with it or not. i am one who doesn't believe torah is entirely about god or jesus. i have a bit of the sitchinite in me, but only to a degree because i'm autonomous and not a mindless borg. i don't go about quoting the authority of some learned scientist, higher critic, college professor, pope, imam or pastor. individual. i am an individual. you cannot change that.

can you spell "meme?"

I applaud your personal manifesto. Your commentary about what you think about me is irrelevant.

What does this have to do with the topic of "White House REFUSES To Call 21 Beheading Victims CHRISTIANS In Statement Against ISIS Attack."?

gryphon66

you have a right to believe whatever you want. just realize, so does everyone else. and if i think islam sucks raw tomatoes, that's my right as well. (although i think it has many lovely ideas, they don't make up for the forced borg behavior. i feel the same way about many churches, acting as institutes for forcing people via social pressure, into adopting ideas that are truly not their own. so don't think i'm isolating this to islam alone. i'm not. they are following that tried and true concept that if you raise a child with certain brainwashing techniques, they will never truly change from that, that is, unless they encounter the reality that they are autonomous beings.)

a reply to: Gryphon66

because our president is the leader of a nation that founded itself on the principles of autonomy. "the world should not belong to people who say bad things about allah" (paraphrased obama) or was it "bad things about the prophet muhammad?"

the world should belong to people, in general, regardless of what they think or say about allah/muhammad.

a reply to: undo

You seem to be stuck in a loop.

Yes, everyone can believe what they want.

Belief is not necessarily factual.

I have claimed nothing different here.

Best,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To others reading, why is it that referring to these victims as Egyptian citizens (which they are) without referring to their religion (which hasn't been mentioned in other official statements on victims) makes such a big difference here, unless it is just more of the Obama-bashing that some here partake in at every opportunity?

White House Reacts to ISIS Burning Alive Jordanian Pilot - Breitbart

President Obama said, “You know, I just got word of the video that had been released. I don’t know the details on the confirmation. Should in fact this video be authentic, it’s just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization. And I think we will redouble the vigilance and determination on the part of global coalition to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated. It also indicates the degree to which whatever ideology they are operating off of, it’s bankrupt. We’re here to talk about how to make people healthier and make their lives better. And this organization appears only interested in death and destruction. Thank you very much, everybody.”

No reference to Jordanian pilot's religion.

The White House released a statement from President Obama Saturday evening, condemning what appears to be the murder of Japanese journalist Kenji Goto.

"Our thoughts are with Mr. Goto's family and loved ones, and we stand today in solidarity with Prime Minister Abe and the Japanese people in denouncing this barbaric act," the president said in the statement.

The president also applauded Japan's "steadfast commitment to advancing peace and prosperity in the Middle East and globally, including its generous assistance for innocent people affected by the conflicts in the region."

Video Appears To Show Beheading Of Japanese Hostage Kenji Goto

No reference to Japanese war journalists religion.

But somehow, the President is slighting Christians by not mentioning the word "Christian" in the announcement.

Why?

a reply to: Gryphon66

because regardless of whether they realize it or not, they are also autonomous beings. (the coptic christians, that is) and as the leader of the world's leading autonomous nation, he should recognize their autonomy (their right to self determination) as something precious and defense worthy, and not worthy of the treatment they received. instead, he covered it up.

i will give you this: obama, as an autonomous individual, has the right to say/or not say, whatever he wants, and we the people, have a right to agree or disagree with it. end.of.story.

this is where you seem to fall off the edge.

yeah they should've mentioned that the japanese dude was also a christian. a trend, perhaps, of not recognizing the autonomy of non muslims

If I say that I believe the sky is green or grass is purple it doesn' t make it fact. People are perfectly entitled to ignorant or arhaic belief systems just as anyone else is entitled to ridiculing said belief system for what it is.

You can't act as though any one is more special or right than any other.

originally posted by: Awolscout
If I say that I believe the sky is green or grass is purple it doesn' t make it fact. People are perfectly entitled to ignorant or arhaic belief systems just as anyone else is entitled to ridiculing said belief system for what it is.

You can't act as though any one is more special or right than any other.

i can act however i want, that doesn't mean you have to agree or disagree with it. that's the beauty of self-determination. without recognition of that, we would vote each other out of existence. and the sky sometimes is green, and the grass is sometimes purple, so your analogy is only based on norms and as a result, is kinda iffy science. didn't you know "normal" is just a setting on your dryer'?

originally posted by: Awolscout
If I say that I believe the sky is green or grass is purple it doesn' t make it fact. People are perfectly entitled to ignorant or arhaic belief systems just as anyone else is entitled to ridiculing said belief system for what it is.

You can't act as though any one is more special or right than any other.

p.s. i betcha i could prove that half of what you believe about the bible, is not actually true.

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: Awolscout
If I say that I believe the sky is green or grass is purple it doesn' t make it fact. People are perfectly entitled to ignorant or arhaic belief systems just as anyone else is entitled to ridiculing said belief system for what it is.

You can't act as though any one is more special or right than any other.

p.s. i betcha i could prove that half of what you believe about the bible, is not actually true.

How doea anything of what I said pertain specifically to the bible? Like you want there to be a crusade againat your beliefs so that you can feel justified in those beliefs. If you're looking for attacks on beliefs from me you're barking up the wrong tree.

Also considering I considered seminary when I was younger I somehow doubt that.

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: Awolscout
If I say that I believe the sky is green or grass is purple it doesn' t make it fact. People are perfectly entitled to ignorant or arhaic belief systems just as anyone else is entitled to ridiculing said belief system for what it is.

You can't act as though any one is more special or right than any other.

i can act however i want, that doesn't mean you have to agree or disagree with it. that's the beauty of self-determination. without recognition of that, we would vote each other out of existence. and the sky sometimes is green, and the grass is sometimes purple, so your analogy is only based on norms and as a result, is kinda iffy science. didn't you know "normal" is just a setting on your dryer'?

And as for this you know exactly what I mean trying make a strawman to discredit it is pointless an boring if your convictions are so strong. Instead you seem to be running in circles with the same non-answer responses over and over with slightly varied vernacular.

a reply to: Awolscout

actually no, it's the position you've taken that archaic = not true. which i think is not exactly correct. it's a shades of grey statement. and thusly why it's obviously written by autonomous beings for autonomous beings. everyone gets something different out of it because we are individuals and interpret reality locally, not as part of a hive mind. that's also why you have some extremists and some variations on that, in every world view, as they are all individuals. that you don't agree with it, is not evidence that you are wrong, nor that i'm wrong . it's evidence you are autonomous (and so am i). forcing people to accept your interpretation only, is not a valid approach.

do you not understand the concept of self-determination?

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed


No, you are being willfully ignorant of the situation if you think that.

Why?
Because it is BECAUSE they were Christian to begin with that they were beheaded, and so their being Christian is quite relevant, and for Obama not to acknowledge that is making sure this will continue as an act having nothing much to do with religion, when it in fact has everything to do with it.

By not addressing the cause of this mess, is ensuring that it will continue being a mess.
Obama should be condemning the anti Christian motives of these idiot Jihadists and not playing it down as happening for some other unclear reasons. When he does this, he makes it sound like no one really understands why it is happening, so there is no clear way to make it stop.
He doesn't want it to stop.

a reply to: Kryties

so it's okay then if we've got evidence that obama is not mentioning that the people being killed are not just muslims but christians of various kinds? it's setting a precedent that doesn't seem very honest.

a reply to: undo

As far as I am concerned this so-called 'evidence' is nothing more than speculation and opinion.

What I am seeing in this thread is the deliberate throwing of mud at the current political leader and hoping some of it will stick - in other words "Divide and Conquer" is working it's devisive ways here.

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: undo

As far as I am concerned this so-called 'evidence' is nothing more than speculation and opinion.

What I am seeing in this thread is the deliberate throwing of mud at the current political leader and hoping some of it will stick - in other words "Divide and Conquer" is working it's devisive ways here.

um the evidence is that he didn't address it at all. he white washed over it, as if it was irrelevant. if it's not irrelevant that isis muslims are doing it, why is it irrelevant that they seem to be doing it to christians in general, not just nationalities (egyptian christians and japanese christians and african christians, etc)? did our president during ww2 just say europeans were being killed in concentration camps?