Top European Research facility: Super strong cannabis caused 1/4 new psychosis cases

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

This is complete bullcrap. There are countless amounts of people who have tried marijuana and never had a problem with it. FAR more than have had psychotic breakdowns from using it.

More people smoke marijuana than have ever smoked it before and that number is growing all the time. Your whole point here is HUGELY flawed. Your bias finally shows.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

It had nothing to do with the short term high, none of them ended up there because of the initial high. They all went there because of long term use of the strong cannabis which can buy every day (because it`s legal for a long time already) since the end of the 80s.

I told in my posts, you have to be sensitive to it and part of the population is. So it won`t happen to most people, but to a substantial part after daily use of the strong cannabis.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

I know what skunk is. Trust me. Your point makes no sense in any case. Hash has a MUCH higher amount of THC in it and wasn't causing psychosis as per the study. But in any case the study STILL doesn't mean correlation equals causation.

I can see why you'd get giddy over a flawed anti-pot study.

Again, as I have already said ATS T&C forbids personal attacks so back off from those.

Also, I think the research is valid.

If anyone doesn't I suggest that they go try to rationalise their opinions and contact the researchers as I couldn't care less for their opinions.

Additionally The Lancet has their own peer review team, the IoPP is very well respected as a research organisation, ranking in the top percent in their field.

If anyone doesn't agree to that, I suggest they contact The Lancet and IoPP and tell them of your unscientific, unsupported, non peer reviewed objections to the research.

Don't bother telling it to me as I consider it an absurd objection and a waste of my time.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

I just gave an example as we have way more experience with really strong cannabis in The Netherlands.

I smoked stuff which left you sitting starring for 5 hours without saying a word (I have to say, it was from by friend who produced it and I bought a lot of it for private use...happy times, just smoking one joint and be done with it...it was also one of only two times I have come across weed which does that).

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh, so you're going to rub off my evidence presented with a one-liner? Yea kid, you're going to get destroyed over that. Show me the very low CBD content in hashish. You can't cause it's not there, and that's the REASON for skunks high psychosis-causing tendencies.

High THC plus moderate CBD is MUCH different from high THC and VERY low CBD.

Sorry kid, it's your reasoning that is lacking here. Can't play me!

Hashish oil, high CBD and high THC

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are wrong.


www.nhs.uk...

The ABCs of THC
[Skunk is so potent because it has been specifically bred to have very high levels of ∆-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). THC is one of the main psychoactive ingredients of cannabis, and can cause effects such as relaxation, enhanced senses, and increased appetite. It has also been linked to psychosis-like symptoms such as paranoia and delusions.
Skunk cannabis has very low levels of another psychoactive substance called cannabidiol. Some experimental studies suggest cannabidiol has a kind of balancing effect on THC: damping down its potential to trigger symptoms of psychosis.
"Traditional" forms of cannabis, such as cannabis resin (hash), have lower levels of THC and higher levels of cannabidiol, which may explain why this study found stronger links between skunk and psychosis than between hash and psychosis.

Based on their findings, the researchers calculated that:
24% of first-episode psychosis could be attributed to the use of skunk-like cannabis – the figure was high because cannabis use was high among the cases in the study (53% of cases compared with 19% of controls)
19.3% of first-episode psychosis could be attributed to daily use of cannabis
16.0% of first-episode psychosis could be attributed to daily use of skunk-like cannabis

This is one obviously agenda driven thread.....
The study is a flawed example of pseudo science that cherry picks the results it seeks.....
Fifty years and counting of heavy use(including developing skunk strains of MJ) tell me that the study is flawed....
This is alarmist bullcrap IMHO.....

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Ok you guys got me on that one. I will concede that point.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

There is no real evidence it causes psychosis. It might increase the intensity of an episode like alcohol does.

It is much more likely people who are using are seeking out drugs to self medicate, as was stated. They aren't considering that a psychoactive/psychadelic might effect them negatively they are just trying to get over a temporary symptom of their illness which cannabis may very well help. Say depression, some people say it helps them for it, or insomnia. They aren't considering that they may have a serious mental illness, they are just self medicating with alcohol, cannabis, etc to ease the symptoms.

a reply to: stirling

You are wrong.

I posted the thread as it is valid research.

The only ''agenda'' seen on this thread is those that refuse acknowledging of facts and are obviously led by their pro legalisation agenda bias.

www.kcl.ac.uk...

The Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology & Neuroscience (IoPPN)* –a School of King’s College London – is Europe’s largest centre for research and postgraduate education in psychiatry, psychology, basic and clinical neuroscience.

We are world-renowned for the quality of our research and, for psychiatry and psychology, we are the most cited research centre outside the US and the second most cited research centre in the world – as ranked by Thomson ISI Essential Science Indicators. In the 2008 Research Assessment Exercise we were judged to have the highest research power of any UK institution within the areas of psychiatry, neuroscience and clinical psychology.

Our world-class research-led learning experience attracts the very best students from around the world who enjoy unrivalled learning opportunities – supported by strong partnerships with NHS trusts, industry and healthcare organisations.

www.thelancet.com...

Reputation and impact
The Lancet has an Impact Factor of 39·207. The journal is currently ranked second out of 150 journals in the general medicine category (2013 Journal Citation Reports®, Thomson Reuters 2014).

Publishing partners and associations
The Lancet works closely with the Committee on Publication Ethics and is represented at the International Committee of Medical Journal Editors.

About The Lancet Psychiatry
About the journal
The Lancet Psychiatry launched in June 2014 and is the seventh Lancet specialty journal, following in the footsteps of The Lancet Oncology, The Lancet Neurology, The Lancet Infectious Diseases, The Lancet Respiratory Medicine, The Lancet Global Health and The Lancet Diabetes & Endocrinology. b]The journal offers the same unique fast-track experience offered by its sister journals for all authors of research papers that are selected for peer review, whereby articles can be published online within 8 weeks of submission.

So here's my take on this. After all is said and done, it's OBVIOUS for people who care about the science and not oversweeping belief based generalizations that marijuana has both medicinal, and detrimental affects, depending on, but not limited to: genetics of individual who consumes said plant, and genetics of the strain itself.

These genes lead to susceptibilities within individuals, and psychoactive/medicinal components and properties of the plant. What this study points to is what the science has been telling us for a while. It matters greatly which strain you're getting, and in dose you're consuming the substance. It matters what your genetics are.

For those who are bothering to think this through, it points FOR legalization, education, and classification of the strains with datasheets on their psychoactive components. There's no reason why this should be thought of as anti-legalization, or anti-pot propaganda... it's not.

CBD oil is delivered in all 50 states. You can get your antipsychotic potent form through the mail right now. That has nothing to do with legalizing the drug, though I think it would be good for the poor souls who are choosing to smoke to try and self-medicate, yet are hit or miss in the efficacy of what comes their way. The safest bet for such an individual is low-quality brick weed, but that has it's own health dangers as well.

Another study on it...

Continued cannabis use and risk of incidence and persistence of psychotic symptoms: 10 year follow-up cohort study

Conclusion Cannabis use is a risk factor for the development of incident psychotic symptoms. Continued cannabis use might increase the risk for psychotic disorder by impacting on the persistence of symptoms.

Source

originally posted by: snowspirit

What researchers have learned from these studies is that cannabis can potentially cause psychosis, but only in a select group of people who are naturally vulnerable.

www.heretohelp.bc.ca...

A Canadian study.
It's still no where near as bad as alcohol, and knowing a lot of users, I have never in my life, seen more than 2 people have a bad experience. One was already prone to panic attacks, and the other had never tried the stuff before.

Most people's paranoia comes from worrying if other people know that you're high. Once that stigma of "doing something illegal" is gone, so is the paranoia.

I disagree with this, as a citizen of a state that has legalized recreational marijuana, I have had serious complications from MJ. Even without the "fear of doing something illegal" it has sent me to the ER a few times due to extremely bad panic attacks. Attacks so sever that my heart mimics a heart attack and EMTs telling me that my blood pressure is barely blow the "No Man's Land" zone, with the EKG showing a serious block in an artery that normally kills people in seconds.

These attacks have been ongoing for years and have gotten worse when they hit. I have spent thousands trying to identify other medical conditions that could be the root cause to try and avoid quitting THC.

THC affects everyone differently, some people can use it their entire lives without issues and others (like myself) have serious complications from it. As much as i love to be high, the times that it does affect me negatively have hit a point that the negative outweighs the positive with the substance.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: AkaDeDrow
Thanks for the warning..I guess everyone I know including me must be about to snap like a dry twig and stomp people to a bloody pulp.
Not even going to bother.

Lol, my thoughts too.

I reckon everyone should be mandated to have MJ, politicians especially. Then maybe they'd see no sense in fighting endless, pointless wars.

It would be good for the economy too, imagine all the new sweet shops springing up. Not to mention new careers in gardening, and hydroponics suppliers, etc.

Extra bumper tax revenues for gov (sales, and income taxes).

It's all good.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are wrong.


www.nhs.uk...

The ABCs of THC
[Skunk is so potent because it has been specifically bred to have very high levels of ∆-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). THC is one of the main psychoactive ingredients of cannabis, and can cause effects such as relaxation, enhanced senses, and increased appetite. It has also been linked to psychosis-like symptoms such as paranoia and delusions.
Skunk cannabis has very low levels of another psychoactive substance called cannabidiol. Some experimental studies suggest cannabidiol has a kind of balancing effect on THC: damping down its potential to trigger symptoms of psychosis.
"Traditional" forms of cannabis, such as cannabis resin (hash), have lower levels of THC and higher levels of cannabidiol, which may explain why this study found stronger links between skunk and psychosis than between hash and psychosis.

Based on their findings, the researchers calculated that:
24% of first-episode psychosis could be attributed to the use of skunk-like cannabis – the figure was high because cannabis use was high among the cases in the study (53% of cases compared with 19% of controls)
19.3% of first-episode psychosis could be attributed to daily use of cannabis
16.0% of first-episode psychosis could be attributed to daily use of skunk-like cannabis

'

Well of course that's why it's more potent. It's not magic.

It still doesn't mean anything except that it's a stronger strain. No different than extracts, edibles and other stronger strains. Extreme thc intoxication, at it's most intense will be somewhat more akin to a very mild trip (mescaline, lsd, etc)

This study is flawed. The ability to give high thc doses isn't new. It's been tested, and experienced by people for decades. THC doesn't become a different drug. A higher percentage of one strain of THC is no different than another strain with the same percentage. It's chemistry not magic.

a reply to: vonclod

if I had the answer to that mate, I'd be sharing it so people could work towards a solution.
I could lean towards genetic make up and disposition as a reason or there could even be social, economic factors, diet, or a number of others. But, the only consistent link I've come across is cannabis.

from tobacco smoker+cannabis smoker+drinker to
tobacco+cannabis, non drinker to
drinker+cannabis, non tobacco smoker to
cannabis only smoker.

It is the only connection I've seen, I have 3 family members that show the effects of the drug, yet I smoked and am non violent and I have 2 other Brothers who did, one was violent, but changed after giving up pot, the other is very placid and wouldn't hurt a fly. I have a friend that was violent when he smoked cannabis, then dropped cannabis for speed and stopped being violent.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

The genetics are a little more important.

I don't smoke, have no interest in it, it gives me anxiety, however it's limited to the time inebriated. When inebriation ends so does any related thinking/anxiety.

There is no evidence it has long term effects. This study is bad, and how bad it is doesn't make the source look good.

After decades of research, with a drug THC (that isn't magic and doesn't change just because a strain changes - simple chemistry not an evil super strain), we are well aware of the effects. In cases where it's involved with mental illness it is more likely sought out by people suffering symptoms of mental illness, or used by someone with an underlying mental illness and then exacerbates that issue. No different than alcohol.

originally posted by: doobydoll

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: AkaDeDrow
Thanks for the warning..I guess everyone I know including me must be about to snap like a dry twig and stomp people to a bloody pulp.
Not even going to bother.

It would be good for the economy too, imagine all the new sweet shops springing up. Not to mention new careers in gardening, and hydroponics suppliers, etc.

Extra bumper tax revenues for gov (sales, and income taxes).

It's all good.

That is the future of MJ. It already is an industry with it's own language, cults, music, and culture.
The amount of money being exchanged in the MJ industry is mind boggling. The profit motive will outdistance the
antipot people; they already have no relevance in the reality of what is going to happen as more and more stats want to share in the profits via taxes, permits, LLC applications, and did I mention TAXES....?
Plus the HEMP industry is going to explode as well. $$$$

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

There`s is defiantly a huge difference in the different types of what you can buy/produce.

If you smoke in The Netherlands outside grown weed or you smoke inside cultivated weed, with the first you can smoke all you want without ever overdosing when you`re used to it, but you will not be able to that with strong inside weed.

We threw arms full of the outside weed on a barbecue once and were hanging with our heads above it.