Top European Research facility: Super strong cannabis caused 1/4 new psychosis cases

a reply to: OneManArmy

Drug use is a symptom, we need to find a cure for the disease. Which is usually poverty, single parent families and poor education. Why dont we attack that?

Not wanting to be argumentative, as I do agree with much of what you have commented in this thread; however, people from all walks of life find themselves in the situation of having become slaves to drug abuse and addiction. Addiction does not discriminate and you can see this in all groups of people both rich & poor, from both good and bad households, from all colors, races, as well as the educated.

There is one cure for addiction, and that is to not abuse and or misuse drugs. If a person must take certain drugs because of medical reasons, they will need to learn discipline-if they don't already possess it, and only the person partaking will know if they have that ability.

Heh, I was accused of being a denier of evolution by the OP, but I'm sure the OP didn't consider that a personal attack. For the record...yes I fully believe we evolved from a long line of hominids...I also believe some of us have devolved. But that's a different thread (even if evidence of that exists in this one).

The only 'denying' I see in this thread are the holes in the logic of the research presented by the OP. We cannot be blind about the methodology used in the research and then declare the results unrefutable! Neither can we be blind about the motivations behind the researchers (ex. where did they get their grants? Who is requesting the study?). All of this is up for debate.

And when the OP posts the research and presents her own opinions of it, in an open debate forum, where all issues are discussed by all sides, the OP can ill afford to be upset when others present opposing views complete with adjoining research that discredits the original posting; nor can the OP be upset when the original research is torn apart and inspected piece by piece to identify the flaws in the methods used to make the conclusions.

The OP, without presenting credentials as a skilled and accomplished researcher, cannot propose her opinions as valid, and then turn around and deny the validity of opposing views presented with their own research. A 'mental health worker' is NOT a 'research scientist', and I dare say that if others were willing, they just might show credentials that make them as capable or even more capable that the OP of analyzing and deducing conclusions from research performed by others. "I'm right and you are an idiot cause I say so" is childish (to say tthe least), not informed.

And finally, if we fully accept the research (which many here obviously DON'T), it does NOT lead the the conclusion that MJ should be kept illegal. It only suggests that MJ is harmful to a subset of the population. It does not even PROVE anything except direct injections of THC may cause psychosis in 25% of the small sample tested - and that is being quite generous considering I have not even addressed this sampling of the population and their motives for participating in the study in the first place.

But, NO FEAR, the opinions of the OP are a small deluded minority of the general public, and therefore will NOT be able to affect legislation either way, as the debate and deliberation that the OP can offer to a legislative body (if this thread is an example) will be pathetic, and promptly IGNORED if any intelligent questioning is performed by those whose job it is to do so. The OP's response here assures that.

So we can move on, let the OP hang one last pathetic response on this thread, and it can rest in the archives as an example of ignorance denied and repeated. Over and Over again.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Very early in this post, it was pointed out to you that the method of deliver was injection instead of inhalation of the smoke.

Obviously, changing the normal route of delivery changes many many things.

Really? I didn't see this-thanks.
_____________________________________

Bioavailability is a very important component in this study.
Ex; I take medication on a daily basis (by mouth), if I took these same meds by IM or IV, they would kill me-no if &'s or buts.

Now my B-12 I take IM, as by mouth I'm getting 2%, maybe slightly more, wheras IM I'm getting up to 98%.

If the study is anything other than normal delivery of THC, I'd say that would make a huge difference.

a reply to: RobinB022

Correction please! - this was an observational study only. They merely interviewed the people and did not inject them with anything. I am sorry. I made a mistake. please forgive.

Tired of Control Freaks

Gawd, this crap again. Do I have to say it again? CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION. In otherwords, all this study has shown is that cannabis use amongst psychotics is higher than the normal population. However, once again, they have shown no actual solid biological/scientific link between cannabis and increased risk of psychosis. In fact, the more studies like this are done, the more evidence is produced suggesting rather than cause psychosis, cannabis use is often a side effect, as the person with psychosis seeks to self medicate and deal with their very debilitating symptoms.

MY own experience, while anecdotal and thus not actual proof of anything, also supports the idea of self medication. I have known a lot of people, many good friends of mine, who had mental, social, and familial problems long before they ever touched any substance. Everyone I knew in school who started using drugs and alcohol also not only had unhappy family lives, but had a lot of noticeable mental problems. The few kids that I knew who were not drug users were also, for the most part, pretty normal and well adjusted, teen angst aside and all. Those people might have tried drugs once or twice, but were uninterested, as they were happy in the real world. The ones who did use drugs and alcohol, often said it helped them feel "normal" and "functional".

I have never known anyone who was normal, well adjusted, and stable becoming psychotic after using weed. The only time I've ever seen someone become schizophrenic from substance abuse was with alcohol and meth.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

The original study was not, yes I stand corrected too. however the OP did offer a 'supporting' study after the original study was getting torn apart, and it DID involve direct injection of THC, so discrediting that study is legitimate and leaves the original study (with its flaws in methodology and small sample size) still standing as the one to be debunked.

As it has been. Over and Over Again.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Nothing to forgive. I thought I read the entire thing and missed it-lol

originally posted by: RobinB022
a reply to: OneManArmy

Drug use is a symptom, we need to find a cure for the disease. Which is usually poverty, single parent families and poor education. Why dont we attack that?

Not wanting to be argumentative, as I do agree with much of what you have commented in this thread; however, people from all walks of life find themselves in the situation of having become slaves to drug abuse and addiction. Addiction does not discriminate and you can see this in all groups of people both rich & poor, from both good and bad households, from all colors, races, as well as the educated.

There is one cure for addiction, and that is to not abuse and or misuse drugs. If a person must take certain drugs because of medical reasons, they will need to learn discipline-if they don't already possess it, and only the person partaking will know if they have that ability.

Yes addiction doesnt discriminate. Neither does the need to get away from the stresses of life from time to time.
The need to get away from it just tends to be more prevalent in areas of low employment, poor education and poor prospects. It is in no way exclusive to poverty though. There are many paths to drug addiction.

The worst drug I have ever seen is that Krokadil, to think people would willfully do that to themselves.

Yes I agree, discipline is important in all things. Nothing should be done to excess.
Drinking too much water can kill you.

There is no cure for addiction, except strength of will.

originally posted by: OneManArmy

originally posted by: RobinB022
a reply to: OneManArmy

Drug use is a symptom, we need to find a cure for the disease. Which is usually poverty, single parent families and poor education. Why dont we attack that?

Not wanting to be argumentative, as I do agree with much of what you have commented in this thread; however, people from all walks of life find themselves in the situation of having become slaves to drug abuse and addiction. Addiction does not discriminate and you can see this in all groups of people both rich & poor, from both good and bad households, from all colors, races, as well as the educated.

There is one cure for addiction, and that is to not abuse and or misuse drugs. If a person must take certain drugs because of medical reasons, they will need to learn discipline-if they don't already possess it, and only the person partaking will know if they have that ability.

Yes addiction doesnt discriminate. Neither does the need to get away from the stresses of life from time to time.
The need to get away from it just tends to be more prevalent in areas of low employment, poor education and poor prospects. It is in no way exclusive to poverty though. There are many paths to drug addiction.

The worst drug I have ever seen is that Krokadil, to think people would willfully do that to themselves.

Yes I agree, discipline is important in all things. Nothing should be done to excess.
Drinking too much water can kill you.

There is no cure for addiction, except strength of will.

Very good. I agree.
______________________________

As far as MJ goes, look, I'm 54.. not too much I haven't seen or heard of, and I've witnessed MJ being of great help to more than one person. I don't partake myself (but use to in my teens & early 20's). I enjoyed it then, but as I aged and tried it many times since my younger yrs (just to see if ...), because I started to react differently, and didn't really like the side effects.

But I've witnessed MJ helping people in amazing way(s). If you ever knew anyone who has/had a lot of stress, or even OCD, use MJ and suddenly become calmer, happier, and more at peace.. well, it's an awesome sight.

I suppose I can imagine other people having negative side effects, but lasting negative side effects (?), I can only imagine as I have never witnessed.

a reply to: OneManArmy
This whole thing is hillarious..the description from John Snow sounded like it was out of reefer madness, Im seriously laughing my ass off.
For some reason actual realworld experience counts for naught.. we just idiots

I will state that ingesting/consuming/smoking anything too much is not good and obviously there could be side effects..but the study is not proportionate to reality in my 30yrs experience. It does state the obvious that under a certian age it's not helpfull.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: OneManArmy
This whole thing is hillarious..the description from John Snow sounded like it was out of reefer madness, Im seriously laughing my ass off.
For some reason actual realworld experience counts for naught.. we just idiots

I will state that ingesting/consuming/smoking anything too much is not good and obviously there could be side effects..but the study is not proportionate to reality in my 30yrs experience. It does state the obvious that under a certian age it's not helpfull.

It gets old reading posts from anti-legalization folks. It's always the same arguments "well I knew a guy who smoked all the time and he was crazy" "I smoked one time and I felt weird" "I know someone who smoked it and it ruined their life."

Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant. Flawed/biased research is irrelevant. Personal opinions are irrelevant.

If the substance provides copious medical benefits and has very minimal actual side effects, it should be legal. It's that simple.

Too many people have bought into the anti-marijuana propaganda instead of doing their own research and applying a little bit of common sense.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

I have similar undesired effects. But I suffer from anxiety regardless. I actually have to use Rick Simpson Oil to treat a condition I have (it is the only thing that helps). I took too much once and had a horrific experience. It was so bad that I stopped taking the oil for a bit. However, I am dependent on the oil, as it allows an otherwise open wound to heal and close. My dosage is very small, just enough to keep the wound closed. But, I'm terrified of another bad spell.

My personal experiences incline me to think that a lot of these cases are more linked to the individual, not the cannabis.

originally posted by: chelsdh

My personal experiences incline me to think that a lot of these cases are more linked to the individual, not the cannabis.

Well isn't that a novel idea.

I think the point to take away from this is even if the marijuana caused the psychosis, the percentage is pretty small in the actual population.

As someone who has stage IV chronic kidney disease, I find this medication extremely helpful for multiple reasons; It helps relieve the nausea I get on a daily basis. Generally my nausea is gone by noon, without it it usually lasts all day. It also helps my appetite, without it I don't really get hungry and end up eating once a day, which I force myself to eat and it's horrible.

It also helps my blood pressure significantly, which is a huge issue when you have kidney disease. Just as an example, my blood pressure yesterday afternoon (not having any of the plant) was 176/116...that was after having taken my blood pressure medications, including an extra clonidine. I kept a detailed log on my blood pressure and it's always much, much better when I am able to smoke my medicine.

I also have social anxiety and it helps quite a bit with that, especially since as my anxiety goes up so does my blood pressure.

Will it help everybody? Clearly not. Should it be legal? Definitely yes. If you don't like it or it affects you poorly - don't take it, simple. Prescription drugs are much more of a problem than this simple little plant is. The plant won't kill you and any effects are temporary. If you use it once and it doesn't help you or causes you problems, how about just don't use it again? Why do you have to control what other adults do with their own bodies?

HIgh THC coupled with low CBD will cause negative effects on your brain.

Paranoia
Anxiety
Auditory hallucinations

If you are strong minded you can get through it. If you are a 13 year old puffing on a joint of heavy indica then there's a chance psychosis or mild variations of could be triggered.

As much as you guys don't like to hear it - THC is not 100% safe. Hemp is a great savior but cannabis isn't the God many profess it to be.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I think the reason people tend to attack "studies" such as this is because it fails at what some would call common sense. I have known people who have smoked MJ for decades. None of them have lost their minds. No matter how good the quality has been.

Here are some that claim the opposite - the pot can treat symptoms of psychosis

Marijuana Compound Treats Schizophrenia with Few Side Effects: Clinical Trial - healthland.time.com...

Marijuana May Both Trigger and Suppress Psychosis - healthland.time.com...

Harvard University debunks it saying marijuana does not cause psychisis - psychcentral.com...

The Op admitted they worked in the mental health industry so the Op has an emotional bent to believe these studies and they will cause the op to look with blinders on.

The Op claims that they have seen drug use cause psychosis but this is an unprofessional opinion without a proper cause and effect relationship.

originally posted by: and14263
HIgh THC coupled with low CBD will cause negative effects on your brain.



Paranoia

Anxiety

Auditory hallucinations



If you are strong minded you can get through it. If you are a 13 year old puffing on a joint of heavy indica then there's a chance psychosis or mild variations of could be triggered.



As much as you guys don't like to hear it - THC is not 100% safe. Hemp is a great savior but cannabis isn't the God many profess it to be.

That fact has already been acknowledged, Over and Over again.

And no one said we didn't want to hear it. Yes, there are risks to some, and minors should not have access. That already stated....Over and Over Again.

Also noted, is that there are many substances and activities that are legal, and that are not 100% safe, and that some people shouldn't do. And that NO ONE is clamoring to ban or make illegal these other substances or activities.

What we DON'T want to hear is those that state "it has dangers, therefore it should be illegal". You don't mean to say THAT, do you?
If so, that is a denial of FREEDOM, and a denial of a substance, for whatever dangers it presents to some, also presents benefits to many others.
Freedom is a responsibility.

a reply to: lakesidepark

I can see this is a sensitive subject for you, I understand why.

I don't believe it should be illegal.

I believe we should be educated properly about it.

At the moment we are not educated properly. On the pros or the cons.