What is Freemasonry? One Mason to another...

originally posted by: Saurus
a reply to: DeathSlayer


Did you know that the director of cuttingedge.org (the source of your post) is listed on another Christian site's hall of shame as one of those who have embarrassed Christianity due their hate speech and spreading of misinformation?

Christian Hall of Shame

There are many Christian websites that are shameful and other religions websites as well BUT that does NOT deter from the facts I stated above. Of course I could use many other websites and sources including your own Mason handbook which was partly explained above.

Facts are facts.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
And to the unbelievers - you think this is myth? Then I say put up or shut up.

As Butters would say, "well, alright"

The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?

The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

jdstone.org...

If you wish to believe that God isn't strong enough to keep his own yard clean, then perhaps you need to take a harder look inside. "The Devil" is you, and the Devil is me. Evil exists, if you allow it to be a part of your life, you bring life to that myth. This is not a masonic point of view, but one of a mason.

And I am curious as to how a non mason could gain more information than a real mason? Does that even make sense? If it sounds amazing, ask for amazing proof.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Lucifer was not a mistake. He was created as an archangel - a supreme being - a chief over many angels.

I suggest you read this thread which has numerous scholarly and Biblical authors references and citations which succinctly proves that the modern interpretation of Satan/Lucifer is a Christian invention as it did not exist in the Bible as contemporaneously understood.

In essence it is a relatively modern Christian invention.

A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine.
Don't piss on my rug and we can all get along.

a reply to: skunkape23

the dude abides.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Woodcarver

....
Freemasonry is several things. Each lodge is different depending on the interests of it's members. There is brotherhood and
A prerequisite of initiation is that you believe in some form of deity. No matter what religion you follow. However, nearly all of the masons i have met are christian. It is not a christian organisation. I do not believe in a deity and so i am mostly annoyed at the members who go on about such things. I realized long ago that i do not need to pretend to have a gods eyes on me at all times to be a good person. But i still think back to the lessons i learned from those early days.

a reply to: Saurus

Have you made it clear to your lodge brothers that you don't believe in any kind of deity and how do they respond?

Yes i have. I actually tell just about everybody i know. I am well known in my town. Being an outspoken atheist was difficult when i was younger but i have always had a large group of like minded friends. As i grew older and realized that most of the people around me were only pretending to believe in gods and religion to better get along in this town, i was able to be a positive example and give others enough confidence to be themselves and bring many more atheists out into the open.
Now we are a strong community who helps eachother out. An island of rational thinkers in an ocean of schizophrenics.

My masonic life ended some time ago but really had nothing to do with my being an atheist. There are plenty of open atheists in masonry and even more atheists who do not have the confidence to out themselves for fear of disaproval from their family and friends. You will not learn anything from masonry that you cannot learn from other positive groups.

One thing I've wondered for a long time;

Is why Masonry will not accept someone with a criminal record/felony...


I've heard the same tired argument every time...


"We don't want those types of people"... LoL...


I wonder how the GAOTU would feel about your unforgiving attitude that emanates from such a High Horse in the fields of your Ivory Towers?

Making good men better... & White Balling Washing any thing that appears so plebeian.



& I reckon when a brother reaches the Grandest Lodge of all...

They'll find that this school of thought is quite far from the Creators.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

It's a rule. We don't make bad men good, we make good men better.

If you did something stupid as a kid, that's looked at and common sense is applied.
It's a private organization so it's rules can be whatever they want them to be.

And nowhere in masonry do we claim to be better than anyone else, the goal is to be better than yourself.

As Woodcarver said, there is nothing in masonry that cannot be learned elsewhere.

Since there are groups that allow women and atheists, you may find one that also admits felons.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
One thing I've wondered for a long time;

Is why Masonry will not accept someone with a criminal record/felony...


I've heard the same tired argument every time...


"We don't want those types of people"... LoL...


I wonder how the GAOTU would feel about your unforgiving attitude that emanates from such a High Horse in the fields of your Ivory Towers?

Making good men better... & White Balling Washing any thing that appears so plebeian.



& I reckon when a brother reaches the Grandest Lodge of all...

They'll find that this school of thought is quite far from the Creators.

I dont know of many orgs that will accept felons into their ranks. Most jobs won't accept felons either. Thats more of a societal standard that is held across the board. After 7 years, you can petition the courts and try to have it expunged. Then you can re-apply.

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: artistpoet
Also may I ask ... I have no religion but a firm and flexible belief I have arrived at through sharing/learning from others and researching "stuff" and of course my intuition

For example ... I believe in a Creator ... A prime source if you like ... from which sprang the Universe ... but I can not put a name to it ... much like in the Hermetica it states that ... how we can name this Creator for He is all names and things ...

My ideas are unprovable of course ... but I am an honest person as far as I can be and certain ideas ring true ... meaning that I have my own proof ... I am always willing to listen to others ideas in a way of trying to understand them ... But like all I am flawed ...

Would such a person be acceptable to Masonry ... not that I am petitioning to join

Answer is yes. As long as you believe in the existence of a Supreme Being (whatever you name it or think it is). As for people that worship Satan, they are not allow in Masonry due to the fact that Satan is not a godly figure (he was created).

You say that as if Satan is not refered to as the Father of Lies...

I can only assume that you're assuming a Satanist (any sect) wouldn't lie about something like that.


Is that naivety, or a staunch position of denial that a Satanist could infiltrate quite easily?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The only way to learn about freemasonry is to join, the only way to join is to ask. They are constantly looking for new candidates for initiation. They rarely turn anyone down. If you were to join, you would see how mundane it really is.

Your experience will be different depending on the lodge/lodges you affiliate with. Some lodges are barely more than social clubs, and others are made up of the local business moguls. Some lodges accept anyone and others are more exclusive. The practice of freemasonry stays the same. What individuals do with their lodges and connections they make there, will differ around the world.

I started in Demolay when i was 13. It is a for young men between 13-21. It is closely related to masonry and is mostly funded and organised by masons and shriners. We organised fundraisers for various causes, mostly the shriners. We have similar rituals and held similar offices and met in masonic lodges. I learned how to take minutes of our meetings, lead rituals, basic business practices, how to balance a checking account, how to tie a tie.

We had conclaves, which were huge meetings of various lodges including masons, demoly, rainbow girls, and others around the country. We listened to guest speakers, held award ceremonies, and my favorite part, the conclave dance. Many fond memories of those days. Completly mundane.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Satan? Really? Satanists? Come on man. Step out of fairy tale land and get with the times.

Double

a reply to: network dude

How can you so readily say "we don't claim to be better than anyone else"...

When you first sentence was, we make good men better, not bad men good...

By default you opened up your post with the notion you are in fact better than "bad men"...


Which is subjective also...

Because you really have no idea who is innocent and who isn't...

& the injustice system is completely fallible to whit people are convicted wrongly on a daily basis...


But you have more faith in the injustice system than your fellow man?
I'm sure Masonry has lost a lot of potentially great people due to this choice of lifestyle.




But as an aside, what happens to a Mason who is convicted (rightly or wrongly) after initiation?

Are they exiled back into normaldom like a stain being wiped away?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Satan? Really? Satanists? Come on man. Step out of fairy tale land and get with the times.

LoL that answer always makes me laugh as well!


Do you talk like that to fellow brothers who are staunch Christians who do believe in "the fairy tale of Satan"?

a reply to: Saurus

Where slavery is the new freedom sums it up nicely.

Give to live take or bake.

Definitely time for another reset. E>L>E is in order.

100% still missing the mark.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
But as an aside, what happens to a Mason who is convicted (rightly or wrongly) after initiation?

Are they exiled back into normaldom like a stain being wiped away?

We have our own system of jurisprudence and if a mason is found guilty of acting in an un-masonic way, he can be suspended or expelled. We try to keep our ranks trouble free since there is already enough bad press from the pinheads who spread lies.

If a man is unjustly caught up in the legal system, I think he would have much bigger things to do than join masonry.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Satan? Really? Satanists? Come on man. Step out of fairy tale land and get with the times.

LoL that answer always makes me laugh as well!


Do you talk like that to fellow brothers who are staunch Christians who do believe in "the fairy tale of Satan"?

Amazingly enough, Satan, Lucifer, nor the boogyman are brought up in lodge. Except during the sacrifice of the child. but no other time.

a reply to: network dude

The humour is impressive, & not at all unexpected.



So I refer back to my original question if you'll answer as a Mason, what another hasn't...


Is this naivety, or a staunch denial of the very possible/probable?



I'm thinking ahead that you will say a Satanist has no need to infiltrate Masonry because there is nothing they couldn't learn in another fashion...

So I'll rebuttal with another question now, just in case...

Do you not think that a Satanist would rather find that out for themselves than take the word of one of God's followers?



I'm not saying it's rampant, or even significant in Masonry...

But as a fraternity with the desire to become closer to the only Creator...
Surely that is reason alone it's a prime candidate for infiltration?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

If you were good at lying and you didn't have 666 tattooed on your forehead, you could easily join and find out the real deal. Without a belief in a creator, things wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.