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originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Go ahead and live in your world of fantasy. Heaven is not for everyone.
Aleister Crowley was an active 33rd degree Mason (Scottish Rite) and he did not worship the God we know to be in heaven.
originally posted by: Abednego
”Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, Lucifer, qui nescit occasum, Christus Fillus tuus, qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat, in saecula, saeculorum."
The original Latin in Virgil's Eclogue IV (line 5) is: "Magnus ab integro seclorum nascitur ordo."
For a better sense of its meaning, below are two translations (by James Rhoades and by C. S. Calverley) of the passage at the beginning of Virgil's poem which refers to the Sibyl who prophesied the fate of the Roman empire.
Now the last age by Cumae's Sibyl sung Has come and gone, and the majestic roll Of circling centuries begins anew: Justice returns, returns old Saturn's reign, With a new breed of men sent down from heaven. Only do thou, at the boy's birth in whom The iron shall cease, the golden age arise. . . Under thy guidance, whatso tracks remain Of our old wickedness, once done away Shall free the earth from never-ceasing fear. He shall receive the life of gods, and see Heroes with gods commingling, and himself Be seen of them, and with his father's worth Reign o'er a world at peace.
Come are those last days that the Sybil sang: The ages' mighty march begins anew. Now come the virgin, Saturn reigns again: Now from high heaven descends a wondrous race. Thou on the newborn babe – who first shall end That age of iron, bid a golden dawn. . . Thou, trampling out what prints our crimes have left, Shalt free the nations from perpetual fear. While he to bliss shall waken; with the Blest See the Brave mingling, and be seen of them, Ruling that world o'er which his father's arm shed peace.
originally posted by: Saurus
originally posted by: Tangerine
As a pantheist (not a panentheist), how were you able to answer yes? I'm not suggesting that you were dishonest. I just wonder how you conceive of a supreme being. Judging by your icon, I assume that you are an occultist. My pagan friend, who is an accomplished occultist, said he saw similarities to occult orders but most of the lodge members who had not been exposed to that sort of thing were not aware of it.
My apologies for my earlier typo. I am more of a panentheist, not a pantheist. I tried to fix it when I saw it, but was too late.
I am an occultist. I believe deeply in a Supreme Being.
I believe that there is one God. No more, no less.
God manifests and relates to different people in different ways. Each manifestation of God must fit in with a person's culture, or that person will not accept God. Therefore, a Hindu, who's culture dictates that God is mystical by nature, will readily accept God as an elephant's head on a human body, but would struggle with the idea of God being a mortal man.
A Westerner, who's culture dictates that Western religion is more ethical than mystical, would not accept a man with an elephant's head as being a God, but, in line with their culture, needed God to appear as a Man with moral and ethical teachings. It is what a Westerner relates to.
In order for God to be known to all, God must manifest to different peoples in different ways. As with the Holy Trinity, which are three manifestations of God required to explain different attributes of God, so there are more manifestations, each which are accepted by other people around the world.
The act of dividing the different manifestations into different 'religions' is a human idea. Three to Trinitarian Christians, many to the Egyptians, many to the Hindus.
Thoth is God. Ganesha is God. Hermes is God.
Yet, there is one God - no more, no less.
This is my belief. Some Freemasons agree with my belief. Most do not.
originally posted by: Tangerine
Do freemasons perform rituals on behalf of or in obeyance to a supernatural deity or is deity completely absent from all Masonic rituals?
originally posted by: Saurus
originally posted by: Tangerine
...
Masons must believe in God or they won't be accepted. However, once a person is a Mason, we do not ask again as it is of no concern to us.
...
Is there an explanation in the history/documents of freemasonry for why this belief is vitally important to freemasonry? I believe you've been very forthcoming about all of this but I get a conflicting message from you and other freemasons when I ask about the role of God. If not believing in a supreme creator being is a disqualifier for being a Mason, it would seem that the belief is integral and is incorporated throughout freemasonry. Otherwise, why would lack of belief be a disqualifier? I don't think whether this supreme creator being is referred to as God or the Great Architect (or whatever) makes a difference. What does make a difference is whether reference to it occurs in ritual. As an occultist, you understand why I'm asking.
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: Tangerine
Do freemasons perform rituals on behalf of or in obeyance to a supernatural deity or is deity completely absent from all Masonic rituals?
There is a generic opening and closing prayer to God and a few similar invocations interspersed in the Degrees.