Modern high carbohydrate diet; let's discuss the science behind.

a reply to: saadad

Yes, but looks like you did not investigate enough how carbs are working inside of body.

Haha, Not at all my friend... I have investiguated a lot...

My conclusion, as bad as it seem is carb are carb! They all end up as GLUCOSE in blood. Just read how carb are made and digested !!!

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
We NEED more fats and protein. The average body is starved for protein and healthy fats and medium chain fatty acids. Omega,EPA, DHA .

OMG, i m on totally opposite line, i m saying that we dont really need that much protein, unless we want to grow cancer.
Hint: Body Builders.

Do a search on animal protein and calcium loss, or animal protein and cancer, you will see that recently was done a long lasting study over a 10 years study that finally got results that if you eat meat there is a higher chance you will get cancer. If you are interested then go and search.

I think i will leave this topic for good because i cant debate with someone who did not do a research. Meat is linked to many disease while the food i have listed is linked to NONE!!!

Link me a disease to lentil or bananas? Or apple. You know the saying, One apple a day makes doctor go away. But i think you are following this one: One kilo meat a day, makes you a good customer.

a reply to: saadad

OMG, i m on totally opposite line, i m saying that we dont really need that much protein, unless we want to grow cancer.

Hold on sir before leaving for good...

Protein are required but not much than the body require for repair. AFAIK a diet ratio of 80 to 20 Fat to Protein (by energy) is ideal. Any more protein and you strain your kidney and produce nitrogen byproduct in blood (very bad).

originally posted by: saadad

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
We NEED more fats and protein. The average body is starved for protein and healthy fats and medium chain fatty acids. Omega,EPA, DHA .

OMG, i m on totally opposite line, i m saying that we dont really need that much protein, unless we want to grow cancer.
Hint: Body Builders.

Do a search on animal protein and calcium loss, or animal protein and cancer, you will see that recently was done a long lasting study over a 10 years study that finally got results that if you eat meat there is a higher chance you will get cancer. If you are interested then go and search.

I think i will leave this topic for good because i cant debate with someone who did not do a research. Meat is linked to many disease while the food i have listed is linked to NONE!!!

Link me a disease to lentil or bananas? Or apple. You know the saying, One apple a day makes doctor go away. But i think you are following this one: One kilo meat a day, makes you a good customer.

Well I should inform you that I've studied nutrition for 20 years. And I never said anything about dumping high protein into diets. You seem like you're the average vegetarian who's taking this thread as a chance to preach.

I live in los Angeles, the MECCA of vegetarians. And if you knew as many EX vegetarians as I do, you'd laugh. They all were at one time, and grew more and more sick over time.

I'm in the gym 4 times a week, 40, and could blow away most 20 somethings. I'm not some meat head power lifter and most people I know in the gym are healthier than any vegetarian who's struggling to get out of bed.

Vegetarianism is crap.

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: saadad

Yes, but looks like you did not investigate enough how carbs are working inside of body.

Haha, Not at all my friend... I have investiguated a lot...

My conclusion, as bad as it seem is carb are carb! They all end up as GLUCOSE in blood. Just read how carb are made and digested !!!

Ahh finally we got to the point. So you have a problem with energy. I dont. I see glucose as energy and i want lots of energy in my body. By eating things i write you will never have insulin problems. But by eating meat you will get diabetes. So how come your ketogenic body will get diabetes if you eat low carb? And how come me eating high healthy carb foods will never get diabetes?

Isnt that weird?

Diets full of SUGAR and CARBS are the enemy. Unfortunately the two go hand in hand with many 'foods' on the market.

a reply to: saadad

Ahh finally we got to the point. So you have a problem with energy. I dont. I see glucose as energy and i want lots of energy in my body.

HaHa, finally I get you caught in the corner...

The fact you may not know is the very precise point I want to tell with this entire thread is the fact that the human body dont use SOLELY as energy source JUST glucose but MANY OTHER ENERGY source like ketone bodies and fatty acid...

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: saadad

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
We NEED more fats and protein. The average body is starved for protein and healthy fats and medium chain fatty acids. Omega,EPA, DHA .

OMG, i m on totally opposite line, i m saying that we dont really need that much protein, unless we want to grow cancer.
Hint: Body Builders.

Do a search on animal protein and calcium loss, or animal protein and cancer, you will see that recently was done a long lasting study over a 10 years study that finally got results that if you eat meat there is a higher chance you will get cancer. If you are interested then go and search.

I think i will leave this topic for good because i cant debate with someone who did not do a research. Meat is linked to many disease while the food i have listed is linked to NONE!!!

Link me a disease to lentil or bananas? Or apple. You know the saying, One apple a day makes doctor go away. But i think you are following this one: One kilo meat a day, makes you a good customer.

Well I should inform you that I've studied nutrition for 20 years. And I never said anything about dumping high protein into diets. You seem like you're the average vegetarian who's taking this thread as a chance to preach.

I live in los Angeles, the MECCA of vegetarians. And if you knew as many EX vegetarians as I do, you'd laugh. They all were at one time, and grew more and more sick over time.

I'm in the gym 4 times a week, 40, and could blow away most 20 somethings. I'm not some meat head power lifter and most people I know in the gym are healthier than any vegetarian who's struggling to get out of bed.

Vegetarianism is crap.

I m afraid you wasted 20 years or you are just following the wrong path. Maybe you do know more about nutritionist values of me. But i think i m a more of a expert in how human body works, since i have graduated on College of kinesiology. (en.wikipedia.org...)

And i do agree with you that there are many vegetarians that just fail. Before you turn to vegetarian diet or before you decide to eat healthy food, you need to be free from your senses. In other words if you are slave of taste and smell you better dont go with healthy food path. You will most probably fail. But in modern world all 5 senses have big role in what humans eat. In other words whatever big corporations want to sell you under a label "food", they will sell you.

a reply to: saadad

And I have study here that tell that ketogenic metabolism is more efficient than glucolysis patway...

How about that ?

a reply to: saadad


Kinesiology is the study of MOVEMENT. How does that even relate to this? Are we talking about body mechanics?

Anywho, all things need to be in moderation. But "carbs' in many of the forms it comes in in our diets, and with processed and packaged foods, is disastrous. We need more healthy FATS than anything. Protein in moderation. Carbs lower. More water. Less sugar. More raw vegetables.

And loading fructose into your body by going the other end of the spectrum will be disastrous too.

But as far as vegetarians I've known, almost ALL couldn't do it. They gave up because they couldn't get out of bed. I just had this discussion with a guy who was vegetarian for 12 years and he just started introducing meat into his diet and he looked at me and said with a serious straight face "Dude, I will NEVER go back to that...F*** the S*** man".

I've heard that story way too often in my 40 years of life.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Fructose is perticularly bad for the metabolism (a real poison), I'll come back on this tomorrow...

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: saadad

Ahh finally we got to the point. So you have a problem with energy. I dont. I see glucose as energy and i want lots of energy in my body.

HaHa, finally I get you caught in the corner...

The fact you may not know is the very precise point I want to tell with this entire thread is the fact that the human body dont use SOLELY as energy source JUST glucose but MANY OTHER ENERGY source like ketone bodies and fatty acid...

OHHH, not at all. You did not caught me in the corner, i know what body use for energy. I just type in post before that i m profesor of Kinesiology.

But what you are saying you dont like glucose.

And let me explain you how body runs energy:

First your body will use Adenozin trifosfat (while you are in ketosis you use this energy), but this energy is run by your muscle and more you sue muscle less energy you have, you have only 4 to 5 seconds of adenozin trifostat energy in your body.
So you have energy only for 5 seconds, after that your body will try to refill your ATP reserves by resintesizing Creatin Fosfat, but this will not make you last long because it can only give you 10 more seconds if you are doing some heavy muscle burning.

AFTER that we come to carbonhidrates and to the famous glucose. Body will use carbonhidrates to make glucose in a liver and voila you have energy. You run your glucose and if not needed extra glucose will eb stored in body as glikogen. You have like 60 minutes reserves of glikogen if you are doing muscle training.

After 60 minutes of running all your glikogen reserves your body will start to run your FAT.
Fat is run in same thing as carbonhidrates, trough liver, but starting from Kerbs cycle(the sequence of reactions by which most living cells generate energy during the process of aerobic respiration. It takes place in the mitochondria, consuming oxygen, producing carbon dioxide and water as waste products, and converting ADP to energy-rich ATP.)
And by that you get more ATP energy. More than in start, like 4 times more. Fats can not be processed without oxygen, so your body need to skip anaerobic state and run on aerobic to run fat. Since we have lots of fat this process can last long, after all fat is run, then body will start to run proteins.

Now you wonder why we need glucose if we can run fat and proteins. And answer is because we run it in this order. And only glucose can be run in anaerobic state. In other words if you dont have glucose you will start running fat after your run out of ATP, in other words you will start to use oxygen and fat and that means you just throw away precious energy, 60 minutes of pure energy that can be run on higher temperature.
(in other words, you will be the slowest guy on 400 -5 000 meters, and in every sport that last up to 60 minutes you will underperform.) That why you see athletes eat bananas or chocolate bars, to raise their glukose.

And now i m in topic arguing that glucose is needed. of course if you seat whole day in front of computer you probably will not need it, but then you cant expect to have high quality of life.

Also @ bodybuilde guy, i m talking about real body builders that eat enormous numbers of proteins to grow their muscles, they get cancer, not you amateur who goes to gym to lift some weight.

You can do a search on body builders life expectancy. And cancer.

And i can talk about glucose and how body consumes energy whole day but i need to go now.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
a reply to: saadad


Kinesiology is the study of MOVEMENT.

Ohh come on dont insult me, you stoped reading after first dot.

KINESIOLOGY:
Kinesiology addresses physiological, mechanical, and psychological mechanisms. Applications of kinesiology to human health include biomechanics and orthopedics; strength and conditioning; sport psychology; methods of rehabilitation, such as physical and occupational therapy; and sport and exercise.[1] Individuals who have earned degrees in kinesiology can work in research, the fitness industry, clinical settings, and in industrial environments.[2] Studies of human and animal motion include measures from motion tracking systems, electrophysiology of muscle and brain activity, various methods for monitoring physiological function, and other behavioral and cognitive research techniques.

a reply to: saadad

So how do you explain my spouse is running on ketone bodies since more than one year w/o dying ???

I'm signing off the air for tonight...

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: saadad

So how do you explain my spouse is running on ketone bodies since more than one year w/o dying ???

First of all, she eats carbs. I know that because she is alive. She probably eat low level of carbs. And she can live long on that diet. It is not best diet for healthy people, but if someone is on some kind of proven therapy that this diet will make you better, why not?

But dont expect from your wife to work whole day in field or to go and run a marathon. That activity can be very unhealthy not to say deadly.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

i went 2 years hardcore ketogenic. I took in between 20-30g/day of carbs, and cycled into a "gorge" period every 5 weeks (followed by 2 weeks of 20g/day, then 3 weeks of 30g/day). Lost over 200 lbs doing it, and improved my health tremendously.

What I found: cutting carbs down to a minimum improved an autoimmune disease I have considerably.

So now i tend to keep to the 30-40g/day "maintenance" eating habits, with a rotation to eating high fiber carbs every few weeks to keep things moving.

Your wife....as long as the trade off is lower weight, the net gain in health will still be there. But there will come a time to reintroduce some carbs back into her life.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Your wife....as long as the trade off is lower weight, the net gain in health will still be there. But there will come a time to reintroduce some carbs back into her life.

My spouse did not take or loose weight on a ketogenic diet of 1200 calories at 20 to 30g of carb max. She tell me that, depending on activity, a man need 2000 and 2500 calories to balance. She too have an autoimmune disease and we discovered that carb reduction eliminated the chronic pain. Now, a little too much carb or smallest quantity of sugar and the pain is coming back. The 20 to 30g of carb is to control (limit) the level of ketone bodies, strangly she is not diabetic but she act like one at making ketones bodies too easily past 8mMol and sometime past 16mMol.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

Ketoacidosis can be deadly.

a reply to: saadad

First of all, she eats carbs. I know that because she is alive. She probably eat low level of carbs. And she can live long on that diet. It is not best diet for healthy people, but if someone is on some kind of proven therapy that this diet will make you better, why not?

But dont expect from your wife to work whole day in field or to go and run a marathon. That activity can be very unhealthy not to say deadly.

Then answer the question: how Inuits can live on a diet of practically ZERO carb all their life (the ancient Inuits) and run behind the dogs, and hunt?