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South Africa’s untold truths about Post-Apartheid.

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posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 11:19 PM
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originally posted by: Tusks

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: Tusks

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: undo

Didn't call you a Nazi I was referring to the Elephant who thinks folks of African ancestry are genetically and culturally predisposed to behave in a certain manner.


Each and every one of us is predisposed to certain forms/levels of behavior due to our genetics. Some parts of that can be modified through environment, some not. Hard to teach a pit-bull to point quail, or a Pekinese to herd cattle, but quite another matter with a pointer or a collie. You'll get used to the idea if you think about it long enough.

Yeah it's hard not to be a Nazi to the core it's in your genes.


It must be much harder for you, at least at some point, psychologically, to have to be a constant proponent of Political Correctness, since PC essentially always means promoting a view that flies in the face of easily observable real-world observations/alternatives.

P.C my anus, it must be much harder for you, at least at some point, psychologically, to have to be a constant proponent of stereotypical bull s.t since stereotypical Bull sh..t essentially always means promoting a view that flies in the face of easily observable real-world observations/alternatives.




posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 11:33 PM
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a reply to: Spider879



it wasn't me!


cause it wasn't.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 11:42 PM
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originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Spider879



it wasn't me!


cause it wasn't.

Not YOU! personally but done supposedly on your behalf.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 11:47 PM
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originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Spider879



it wasn't me!


cause it wasn't.

Not YOU! personally but done supposedly on your behalf.


and of course we know (we being you and I), that it wasn't done on behalf of the people, regardless of race. i mean i can see them convincing themselves that "civilizing" africans would be helpful, but apartheid had nothing to do with civilizing people



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 11:50 PM
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what i want to know is, were the indigenous south africans being taught, like american blacks have been, that having anything to do with "white" institutions, such as colleges, business, education, law, medicine, makes you an uncle tom. in the usa, our gov has been trying to integrate blacks into society but many refuse because of the specter of selling out to the "white man". so instead they end up embroiled in crimes and get cycled into the prison system, where corporations use them as slave labor. that's also # you can't make up
edit on 16-2-2015 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 11:55 PM
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originally posted by: undo
what i want to know is, were the indigenous south africans being taught, like american blacks have been, that having anything to do with "white" institutions, such as colleges, business, education, law, medicine, makes you an uncle tom. in the usa, our gov has been trying to integrate blacks into society but many refuse because of the specter of selling out to the "white man".

Who is teaching that?



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 12:02 AM
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originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: undo
what i want to know is, were the indigenous south africans being taught, like american blacks have been, that having anything to do with "white" institutions, such as colleges, business, education, law, medicine, makes you an uncle tom. in the usa, our gov has been trying to integrate blacks into society but many refuse because of the specter of selling out to the "white man".

Who is teaching that?


re-read the post you quoted, i added a bit to it. as far as who is teaching that: i have no idea, but it started quite a long time ago within the black communities and is a relic of the years following the end of slavery.

i'm guessing the drug lords have benefitted from perpetuating it as then they have an impoverished populace they can prey upon to run their drugs for them. (drugs should just be legalized and stop all that nonsense).

have you read the fight the republicans had on their hands back when slavery was outlawed? republicans gave the plantations the blacks had been slaves at, to the former slaves. democrats had their lawyers make new laws and took the lands back. it escalated into all manner of nastiness including actual mini civil wars between white repubs and white democrats, literally shooting each other in the street.

one moment the newly freed slaves were free men, then the next, they were illegal and tossed in prison. republican lawyers were constantly battling that, and having to innovate new laws as well, to counter the laws the democrats were conjuring up. slowly but surely, it's migrating right back there, with forced slavery to the state (marxism) in prisons owned by rich investors. the prison is the new plantation.


edit on 17-2-2015 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 12:33 AM
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originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: undo
what i want to know is, were the indigenous south africans being taught, like american blacks have been, that having anything to do with "white" institutions, such as colleges, business, education, law, medicine, makes you an uncle tom. in the usa, our gov has been trying to integrate blacks into society but many refuse because of the specter of selling out to the "white man".

Who is teaching that?


re-read the post you quoted, i added a bit to it. as far as who is teaching that: i have no idea, but it started quite a long time ago within the black communities and is a relic of the years following the end of slavery.

i'm guessing the drug lords have benefitted from perpetuating it as then they have an impoverished populace they can prey upon to run their drugs for them. (drugs should just be legalized and stop all that nonsense).

have you read the fight the republicans had on their hands back when slavery was outlawed? republicans gave the plantations the blacks had been slaves at, to the former slaves. democrats had their lawyers make new laws and took the lands back. it escalated into all manner of nastiness including actual mini civil wars between white repubs and white democrats

No Undo, AAs in the USA fought hard to get into institutions of higher learning the ex-slaves especially put up a monumental battle to have their post slavery kids educated, ever heard of the Tuskegee institute under Booker T. Washington, or any of the HBCUs, Historically Black Collages And Universities. here is a list
en.wikipedia.org...
More House and Fisk being the lead, the reason why they exist is because right up to the mid sixties Blacks were not allowed to attend or were faced with quotas from White institutions, these institutions were responsible for the rise of the Black middle class pre civil rights era,and much of the post civil rights era also, even as we speak there are educators pushing the standerds of excellence in education in prep schools like Urban prep

For the fifith consecutive year, 100% of the seniors from Urban Prep's Englewood and West campuses and the inaugural graduating class from its Bronzeville Campus have been accepted to four-year colleges and universities.
www.urbanprep.org...

Yes there are many who fell into a sense of hopelessness and think there is not much out there for them, that's where you might get the idea that Black kids are being thought to avoid education, btw Urban prep is not off into some wealthy Black community but for inner city poor neighbor hoods , all that's needed is a willingness to learn as they abide no crap nor cuddle no one, expectation is high, there is consequently a waiting list to get into those schools.
Don't believe the hype, although Black middle class lagged behind white middle class in earnings and wealth accumulation,most Black folks are NOT poor, they are in fact middle class or working class, there are more Black doctors and professionals than there are Black ball players.
edit on 17-2-2015 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 12:38 AM
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a reply to: Spider879
In the entire history of the world only one group of people did not return home after their enslavement ended.



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 12:39 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

where was that happening? if primarily in the south, the south was a democratic hotbed. that is, till the marxists and fascists saw the plight of the black citizens and thought it an easy route to overthrowing the capitalists (we got hit with double whammy socialists). there's alot more going on, under the surface, than what you are told in history books, that's for sure.



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 12:41 AM
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a reply to: abe froman
Who?
Where was home?



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 12:46 AM
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socialists believe capitalism should only be exercised by the state (which is secretly a bunch of wealthy capitalists who don't want anyone but them to experience the benefits of capitalistic endeavor).



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: Spider879
In the entire history of the world only one group of people did not return home after their enslavement ended.


First all which group of folks went back after slavery did the Irish or Indentured Indians and Chinese?? and as far as AAs goes,some did went back, the question was debated both within and outside the the community most decided to stay being they were generations deep in this land some even with lines going back before the May Flower, and which nation could take in a large group of ex-Slaves, this was at a time when Europeans carved up Africa,this seemed impractical than as it is now,btw ever heard of Marcus M Garvey.



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 09:44 AM
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originally posted by: Spider879

Errrr not all the time, but hey white folks did conquered and colonized the world leaving a mess a in their wake


Total crap. The British empire was a force for good. We gave them railways, Christianity, etc, a real beaurocracy, the Queen.... Cricket for heavens sake. Ask any Indian, they love our gifts. We gave them everything they love today, bar the iphone



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 10:02 AM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Yeaaay!!!!..



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: Spider879

Of course there are also "True Believers" amongst the crowd, most of whom have an innate sense of superiority, whether genetic or learned.



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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South Africa is a complex place with a complex history.
It's very hard to say white people are like this; or black people are like that.
There were exceptions to every rule.

At least by the mid-1980s when I was in school I wished apartheid would disappear.
Young white males faced two years of military conscription, and then further yearly camps until we would be well in our fifties.
One could look forward to (or so we told) to be "property of the state" for a considerable amount of our lives.
One didn't know at what kind of base one would end, and some were notorious for human rights abuses.
The music was censored, the news and books were censored and one would only really come into contact with academically educated black people if one went to an English-medium university (which were watched by informers and frequently had riots).
Whites may have had their hawks and doves, just like the ANC had their principled leaders, and thugs who tutored people, burnt them alive and waged war on rival groups like AZAPO or Inkatha in their Vietnamese inspired "people's war".
Ultimately the country was actually run by a secret society called the Broederbond, and many global companies benefited (there's a movement for them to pay reparations, strangely opposed by the ANC under President Mbeki).

Nevertheless, I was very glad when 68.6 of white South Africans voted for President De Klerk's negotiations with the ANC in 1992.

Sadly though, like most former white leftists and liberals I've become more critical of what has transpired.
Every single incident that involves a white person is regarded as racist, even when no other group is called to collectively account for the daily mayhem and chaos.
What's happening in the townships and squatter camps looks no different to the protests under apartheid, except that the police are mainly black.
Sure, call us to account for what was wrong with apartheid (although the first time I voted was in 1994, and it was neither the ANC not the NP).
But don't pretend whites contributed nothing, or that whites don't have a glass gutter, and are all benefiting from top level management jobs for a few older men.
Don't expect success from Affirmative Action at all costs, rather than what was initially negotiated - the most qualified person should get the job.
Leaving posts open rather than employing or promoting whites, Indians or coloreds was not the agreement.
If black people commit xenophobia, racism or slavery they should also be held to account, instead of white-washing slavery and farm-attacks as mere "crime". www.iol.co.za...
www.dailymaverick.co.za... LU

No person likes to be constantly pushed in a corner, and even black politicians of the Democratic Alliance have been insulted as "coconuts" (white on the inside) or "the tea girl" by the ANC and other ideologically leftist parties (in practice many are capitalists who like to build up their personal wealth by any means necessary).
www.iol.co.za...

There's also been some astounding leftist antisemitism.
www.timeslive.co.za...

There are so many issues in current SA that need addressing, but a main one is education.
Just like the culture of non-payment for electricity still exists in many poorer communities (the ANC apparently promised them free electricity in 1994), so the struggle-era idea of "liberation before education" still exists.
In service delivery protests schools continue to be burnt down, along with libraries.
The ANC has followed completely inappropriate policies here, from firing and offering packages to qualified and experienced teachers, to trying to impose an unworkable form of outcomes based education.
The middle class can escape to private or semi-private schools, but the poor suffer from textbooks not being delivered, unqualified and unprofessional teachers (one hears of everything from rape to teachers selling drugs to learners) to constant strikes.
They didn't build on whatever success "Bantu Education" had at all, or on the former black and homeland universities that had fairly good reputations once (not one minister has ever called a degree from such apartheid funded institutions inferior, and some like Medunsa educated people from across Africa).

Meanwhile, we have refugees from across West Africa and the sub-continent who are qualified professors and teachers, and they cannot get through the red tape to be qualified here, and they work as car-guards or gardeners.
Actually with the new Visa laws there are even doctors and teachers from Europe (with an SA spouse) who cannot practice here.
And then we moan about a skills shortage, and give loans to Cuba or Mugabe.

Anyone can watch the chaos in Parliament last Thursday on Youtube to see that SA is heading towards leftist fascism. Racial, albophobic, anti-minority rhetoric is very much a part of that political performance.

Meanwhile, the privately owned cultural Afrikaner enclave of Orania is doing quite well.
As a minority within a minority they're not a threat to anyone in power, and black politicians from Mandela to Malema have been impressed going there for tea and cake and beholding the "white tribe".
In fact, they've recently made agreements with a Xhosa village to share agricultural and tourism expertise.
www.news24.com...
Interesting that the groups least interested in integration - but certainly co-operation - are living closest to the dream.

edit on 17-2-2015 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2015 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: undo
socialists believe capitalism should only be exercised by the state (which is secretly a bunch of wealthy capitalists who don't want anyone but them to experience the benefits of capitalistic endeavor).





Corporate Oligarchy......This is what we currently have in the US and it is a form of Socialism. It is also illegal according to the US constitution. The founding fathers predicted this would happen many years ago and warned against it's pitfalls. When you let outside forces influence the government the constitution is not worth the paper it was written on.



edit on 17-2-2015 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2015 @ 04:02 AM
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originally posted by: halfoldman
South Africa is a complex place with a complex history.
It's very hard to say white people are like this; or black people are like that.
There were exceptions to every rule.

At least by the mid-1980s when I was in school I wished apartheid would disappear.
Young white males faced two years of military conscription, and then further yearly camps until we would be well in our fifties.
One could look forward to (or so we told) to be "property of the state" for a considerable amount of our lives.
One didn't know at what kind of base one would end, and some were notorious for human rights abuses.
The music was censored, the news and books were censored and one would only really come into contact with academically educated black people if one went to an English-medium university (which were watched by informers and frequently had riots).



Yep, that is very much the old South Africa I remember and DO NOT MISS!!!! My brother was lucky/unlucky enough to be in the very last intake in January 1993, so he only got to do one year. And the white suburbs were full of Afrikaner Stepford Families. Try growing up amidst them in a single parent family. Years later, I shared some of my childhood experiences with a Colored friend and she said, "They must have thought they have a colored in disguise amongst them. That made us both laugh long and hard. Interestingly, I've found that many of the Afrikaners became more human and humane after they lost power, after 1994. I think I like them more now, than at the height of Apartheid.
edit on 18-2-2015 by meridie because: deleting repeated word



posted on Feb, 18 2015 @ 05:40 AM
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originally posted by: IndependentOpinion

Before the end of Apartheid, our military was one of the best. The fact is that many countries had their soldiers trained in SA. In fact, Hitler sent his troops to train here, and also recruited many SA soldiers to fight in his war. We had great standards and great soldiers in those days.




originally posted by: aorAki

Yep, sounds like absolutely fabulous standards.... :/



So you contend that the Germans in WW2 were NOT one of the best militaries ever seen ??? You DO know that it took Russia, UK, France, USA, Canada, & Australia COMBINED to defeat them right?

Oh...



originally posted by: IndependentOpinion

We had a black man that babysat us. He was super smart, helped with homework, made food and everything. There was nothing he could not answer.



originally posted by: aorAki
Essentially a slave...



How is a paid worker essentially a slave?



Your agenda is clear.
edit on 18-2-2015 by 8675309jenny because: (no reason given)




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