In a universe where creationists defend how nothing comes from nothing

a reply to: Danny85

Sounds like you have a very perceptive, inventive niece. Qualities frowned upon in the current conditioning we call education.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: letmeon
The skies, the mountains, the rivers, the forests, the deserts, and all the animals. Do you think we all evolved from a single cell? Incredibly complex, no. Evolution is stupid. Science? Eating and mating created all the wonders of life. Consciousness and language, and civilization. With all the wonders of life, how can you claim what some nerdy geek wants to imagine is so. I don't think we can discover the birth of a universe with a "theory" called the Big Bang. There was nothing then an explosion then something. Let the nerds come to whatever conclusion they want with a black board and chalk. And physics. People are stupid. These laws we set up to govern us. Doesn't sound like they are any closer to asking the big questions like why are we here or why is anything here then they were before.

Ok, but to be fair, so far the best we have in answering some of these big questions is found from scientific study whether it's Evolution, Cosmology, Astronomy, Physics, etc. Doesn't mean that they have it all right yet or anything but from what we've got so far that's the best interpretation of the data that we have. So if it's all "stupid" as you put it, then what else is there as an alternative that also has some solid evidence behind it??

Evolution , all life on Earth? A single celled organism is just a blind cell that needs to eat. The systems of the body are incredibly complex, vision, digestive system, etc. your saying "science" is a better answer to these questions than faith? What about nature and survival of the fittest? Don't you think those blind single cells would have just died than created all the animals and people in the world. If you think of the process evolution would have gone through since the birth of the world, is stupid. I never went to church, used to listen to Marilyn Manson in high school I guess I was an atheist but I got older more experienced. Had a religious awakening in my life. I been coming to this site seven years under different names and I like to study atheists here. I think it is nieve. I think it comes from arrogance and anger or throwing a fit and saying that's not a good enough answer. I think it is a phase that the young go through before they are grown up. I wanted to see what the OP had to say and was checking site every five minutes awhile.

a reply to: Specimen

No you like everyone else digs your own grave. No one will crucify you or beat you. You're not worth the time, you're just a disrespectful person on the internet hating on people who believe in something.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: Danny85

Sounds like you have a very perceptive, inventive niece. Qualities frowned upon in the current conditioning we call education.

Inventive yes. Perceptive...maybe not so much.

Some bored and lonely brains living in a spaceless/timeless swamp blow themselves up and the universe is born. That sounds good to you??? You think that sounds reasonable do you???

Those qualities aren't frowned upon in education at all. However they do have their place. For example if the question was about Discovering America and your answer is about some Griffin Riders who came from their Sky Castle and fought against the evil Lizard Men and claimed America for themselves. That would be where your imagination and "believing what you want" philosophy does no good.

a reply to: letmeon

So your answer is "Faith", then??? There's no need to elaborate on why you don't believe current theories, I know you don't like those. My question is what theory you do like and why. So can you elaborate on "Faith" and how and why that is such solid answer above all others??

a reply to: Danny85

Is that true? About God always being and then creating a son then the universe?

That's what the Bible says.

I can show you scriptures if you like.

I never went to church growing up and haven't read the entire Bible. I just have faith something is out there. I mean why is anything here? Why not nothingness or darkness. We have 3D environments and can do whatever we want. My philosophy takes from Revelations and considers this the Rapture. Life is Heaven. I don't know why I am here or why everything else is here but while I am here I am going to enjoy the ride. Now we got PS4 s to play with. My dad keeps saying after work when we get home and relax and watch TV, " this is Heaven". Being warm content. The atheist s haven't found this peace or true happiness and I guess I just study them. Feeling when you look at a sunset content and their is a creator who loves you and gave you this gift of life. And there is a great meaning to everything. Who created this wonderful 3D world I get to run around in, I don't know but I am at peace and I see these atheists try to make fun and I am just curios . Like they are snubbing us or something. But they aren't allowed in my Heaven I made for themselves and probably aren't truly happy.

originally posted by: stosh64
Always trying to prove there is no God with science is laughable.

I thought God created/allowed for the sciences in IT's infinite wisdom (as will be providing entertainment for Itself for eons) "Let the circular arguments begin".

originally posted by: Specimen
If anything, creationist should be worried about why their ever loving God put them on this unforgiving planet?
Sounds like God has a beef, rather then granting us the wonders of heaven and letting Satan run rampant on this earth or in this life.

Come on; everyone 'chose' to be here of their own volition (some will never understand this or live in fear of circumstances they themselves signed up for).

a reply to: dusty1

I believe you don't worry about that. I was just making sure because for a kid who isn't really in a religious family or interested in the subject to come out with something that seems to fit with the bible, just freaks me out a little.

originally posted by: letmeon
I never went to church growing up and haven't read the entire Bible. I just have faith something is out there. I mean why is anything here? Why not nothingness or darkness. We have 3D environments and can do whatever we want. My philosophy takes from Revelations and considers this the Rapture. Life is Heaven. I don't know why I am here or why everything else is here but while I am here I am going to enjoy the ride.

Those are good questions but they're also questions dealing with "Meaning and/or Purpose" on multiple personal levels and those aren't the kinds of questions science is trying to answer anyway. Also, enjoying the ride isn't dependent upon "faith" in a creator either.

Now we got PS4 s to play with. My dad keeps saying after work when we get home and relax and watch TV, " this is Heaven". Being warm content. The atheist s haven't found this peace or true happiness and I guess I just study them. Feeling when you look at a sunset content and their is a creator who loves you and gave you this gift of life. And there is a great meaning to everything.

That's interesting you should use that example because that TV and PS4 you enjoy so much wasn't created by Faith. It's the combined effort of multiple scientific endeavors from many fields of study and research over time that has created those things. All the praying and worshiping in the world wasn't going to produce those things.

Why it is that you think atheists don't enjoy sunsets or have peace and happiness is kind of strange also. You're correct though in them being not content in having those major questions answered though. However, just because you've chosen to be content by the answer you've chosen doesn't mean you're right either. Maybe they just aren't willing to accept any answer that comes along because it allows them to be all warm and fuzzy over it. Maybe they are willing to keep trying for a real solid answer before giving up and a convenient one.

Who created this wonderful 3D world I get to run around in, I don't know but I am at peace and I see these atheists try to make fun and I am just curios . Like they are snubbing us or something. But they aren't allowed in my Heaven I made for themselves and probably aren't truly happy.

Not all atheists are like that but some are. However so are many of those of "Faith" too so I fail to see how this proves anything. I'm not saying you should drop your faith or anything, but you may want to question it still a little as well from time to time. At the same time I think you should give a little credit where credit is due and oppose science a little less. After all, we can see the results of Science all around us and they are the result of actual research and experiments and work that has actual evidence and proof of concept for anyone to study. Faith on the other hand is simply applied where ever there is still some mystery and unanswered questions. But it's your choice.

a reply to: mOjOm

I love when you get all riled up mojom, spirituality brings out the best in you.

Ok, I will believe what I want.

"Did you hear that I am a monkey, look at me I am just a stupid monkey ( craps in his hand and throws it at evolution scientist) why did I do that I don't know I am just a stupid monkey"-----South Park

Science as much as we all might want can't answer all our questions. Lol

originally posted by: letmeon
Ok, I will believe what I want.

"Did you hear that I am a monkey, look at me I am just a stupid monkey ( craps in his hand and throws it at evolution scientist) why did I do that I don't know I am just a stupid monkey"-----South Park

Science as much as we all might want can't answer all our questions. Lol

I don't think anyone ever claimed that it could.

What's nice about Faith of course is that it claims to have all the answers just as long as you don't try and verify any them as being true. It's no wonder why questioning faith is something that is punished and not questioning faith is rewarded. What better way to keep people ignorant and helpless to religious authority.

"If I said God was a giant Spa-Getti monster who was invisible, would you simply believe it cause it couldn't be disproven. Wow I finally get it God is a giant Spa-Getti monster."

"Now we are all atheists, let's kill God"

( both from South Park)

What's with all you atheists, do you hate religion? Kinda a back handed response. Lol

a reply to: letmeon

What's up with all the South Park quotes exactly??? I like South Park too BTW.

I can't speak for all atheists and don't really consider myself to be one exactly either. But I will say that I don't always like what Religion does to some people. It's not everyone and it's not every religion either so that doesn't apply everywhere. That is also what is frustrating about it too is that it's difficult to tell what the problem actually is sometimes. Maybe it's just certain people and not Religion and regardless of what influence it is the people would find a way to misuse it. Or maybe it's Religion itself that creates those issues in people, I don't know.

In a similar way I'm not against everything that is taught by religion either. Some I find to be interesting and understand it's usefulness other parts not so much.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: stosh64

Honestly I am really freaking tired of the Christian hating on this site. Is denying ignorance subtly attacking believers? Like children, seriously.

That's very arrogant of you to assume because I'm knocking on creationists, that must only implies christians. Every religious group in the world that has a creationist myth this subject is targeting, not just you.

a reply to: andre18

My lack of belief in god's [any god] existence is not dependent upon whether the Universe itself is eternal or not.

a reply to: stosh64

trying to prove there is no God with science is laughable.

Science cannot address anything allegedly supernatural [outside of nature]. It's a limitation of science. So you're right.

We can disprove religious claims with science. That's not laughable at all. When religions make direct claims about the known physical Universe we can address it with science. That's no longer a supernatural proposition.

As such we can disprove things like Genesis as literal truths. It has been rendered allegorical because it conflicts with our scientific understanding. Conflicts being an understatement.

originally posted by: Danny85
So even though in the same article that you've pointed out, scientists are saying that they were wrong that the black holes couldn't be formed by collapsing stars, the same scientists who are constantly changing their minds about things (apart from Pluto being a planet) are now saying that this universe has just always BEEN HERE and you are accepting that as fact?

What you just said shows you're complete lack of understanding of how scientists conduct science. For example, in what way are these scientists involved in the articles I've provided, the same scientists who said the universe has always been there? if these scientists thought that it's always been there, whey would they try and prove it hasn't? You are putting all cosmological scientists in the same basket. They all study the universe but have different theories, which in your mind is contradictory - do you see how wrong that kind of thinking is? Some show evidence one way, some another, then we have competing theories.

You are associating the change in science due to the ever increasing understanding of reality, with the entire populous of the community all agreeing it's one way, then the next day another. The community isn't some hive bloody mined lol. Some scientist(s) postulate one thing, it gets published, and depending on the strength of the formulas and papers, it may show current theories to be outdated - that is not the entire community just changing their mind, thats one paper showing something new. You just fail to grasp so much of this.

And i never said fact, but a theory that's recently gaining a hell of a lot of traction and evidence.

Watch it here and maybe you'll get it better -

Now think about that for a second - A universe that has always been and will always be. It doesn't have a beginning like everything else in the universe. A universe that will never end or die like everything else in the universe. Before you or any atheists begin to pat themselves on the back and wag their fingers saying 'We were right' lets just wait a couple weeks months or years before you do that because I can promise you scientists will change their mind again about this.

There are plenty of scientists that are already questioning it, as they should. That's how it all works.

My take is that the universe had a beginning it must have, nothing in the universe or in the laws of the universe allows for things to just be

Notice how you don't apply the same exact thinking to god.

- replace universe with god and you some how find it making sense in your brain....

"My take is that god had a beginning it must have, nothing in the universe or in the laws of the universe allows for god to just be"

Just leave it be. If they believe in a god/s then let them do so it doesn't really harm you

Faith is a personal experience no one can challenge with all the science in the world. There are many god believers who use science to confirm their beliefs, if not only to show to atheists that they can use science to prove their beliefs as true as them. And for these people, this thread is made to show that one piece of science they ever had is now useless.