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The hatred of debunkers

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posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:58 PM
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This is a conspiracy site. In my opinion, the best one. There are some of the most articulate, intelligent members here in one spot, and almost all, are friendly and willing to share their knowledge at any time. This site even has a moto of "deny ignorance".

Now, ignorance is not derogatory as long as it's temporary. We all have our areas of knowledge, and most have large gaps waiting for knowledge. As long as you are willing to accept that others may have the knowledge you seek, you can learn almost anything here. But I notice that if your belief is challenged, there can be a big temper tantrum, for lack of a better term.

Debunking. The art of removing bunk. Once the bunk is removed, only facts remain. I am of the impression that on a site where facts and knowledge are king, the debunker would be welcomed. Not so. Sure some enjoy the learning process, and there are many members who quietly read, and learn, all without making a single post. But the ones that challenge the integrity of debunkers seem to be missing the point. They act as if you are stealing a part of their soul when you explain the flaws in their story. Can it be attributed to just ego? Does the will to have your beliefs validated outweigh the will to learn the truth? Would you rather live in fear of a lie, than understand the reality in front of you?

Instead of attacking the debunker, verify his information. Attack that. But, do it with the same or better verifiable facts to prove your point. And if you run across someone in a forum whom you disagree with, remember, that in a different forum, they may be on your side.

And for the love of all that's holy, If you ask a question, be adult enough to at least let the ones who answer you know that you read their post. Drive by posts are like drive by shootings. The work of a coward.




posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
Drive by posts are like drive by shootings. The work of a coward.


Pew pew pew.

I hate you.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
This is a conspiracy site. In my opinion, the best one. There are some of the most articulate, intelligent members here in one spot, and almost all, are friendly and willing to share their knowledge at any time. This site even has a moto of "deny ignorance".

Now, ignorance is not derogatory as long as it's temporary. We all have our areas of knowledge, and most have large gaps waiting for knowledge. As long as you are willing to accept that others may have the knowledge you seek, you can learn almost anything here. But I notice that if your belief is challenged, there can be a big temper tantrum, for lack of a better term.

Debunking. The art of removing bunk. Once the bunk is removed, only facts remain. I am of the impression that on a site where facts and knowledge are king, the debunker would be welcomed. Not so. Sure some enjoy the learning process, and there are many members who quietly read, and learn, all without making a single post. But the ones that challenge the integrity of debunkers seem to be missing the point. They act as if you are stealing a part of their soul when you explain the flaws in their story. Can it be attributed to just ego? Does the will to have your beliefs validated outweigh the will to learn the truth? Would you rather live in fear of a lie, than understand the reality in front of you?

Instead of attacking the debunker, verify his information. Attack that. But, do it with the same or better verifiable facts to prove your point. And if you run across someone in a forum whom you disagree with, remember, that in a different forum, they may be on your side.

And for the love of all that's holy, If you ask a question, be adult enough to at least let the ones who answer you know that you read their post. Drive by posts are like drive by shootings. The work of a coward.


I agree
"Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"; pl.: reductiones ad absurdum), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin: argument to absurdity), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial,[1] or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance. For example, "if A then both B and not-B, so not-A" and "if not-A then both B and not-B, so A".[2] First recognized and studied in classical Greek philosophy (the Latin term derives from the Greek "εις άτοπον απαγωγή" or eis atopon apagoge, "reduction to the impossible", for example in Aristotle's Prior Analytics),[1] this technique has been used throughout history in both formal mathematical and philosophical reasoning, as well as informal debate."

link to info

I can remember arguing idiocies with set members now agreeing with them.

See now what I can't stand is an argument by two separate individuals and a third party getting involved trying to belittle someone and run now that's coward...


+25 more 
posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: network dude

I find the debunkers to be egregious fat heads at times....
They jump in to debunk anything regardless of the subject even when the poster is calling for speculation on some premise or other.....
They have this attitude of they khow best and many threads get devolved into useless arguments over the validity of stated premise rather than discussing the posted theory....
Its all so ego driven they miss the entire point of such maunderings...and derail thoughtful threads that call for imaginative discussion of a particular premise rather than the debunking of the whole subject.
Its an attitude ATS has to lose....perhaps they have issues......no need to screw up others pondering to brow beat them with mainstream attitudes....
Some people here view it as a duty to disrupt or derail threads because they wish to appear oh so intelligent....
In actuality they are being rude and wilfully stupid.as well as ignorant.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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Bravo bravo truly spoken the point of ats last time I checked was to argue valid points not to nit pick at all the small mistakes...a reply to: stirling



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: stirling
many threads get devolved into useless arguments over the validity of stated premise rather than discussing the posted theory....
I'd say the second half of your sentence directly contradicts the first.

Unless what you really mean is "many threads get distracted from abject fantasy by discussion of facts."



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: stirling

It seems to me that some of these "debunkers" are only doing so out of fear-like the concept of alien life (for example) frightens them to their core.

It's kind of funny for them to be calling ANYONE cowards.


+1 more 
posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:19 PM
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originally posted by: FalcoFan
a reply to: stirling

It seems to me that some of these "debunkers" are only doing so out of fear-like the concept of alien life (for example) frightens them to their core.

It's kind of funny for them to be calling ANYONE cowards.


Yes, UFO debunkers are so frightened of aliens that they call obvious photographic evidence of the Galactic Federation's visiting class-3 Starcruiser Mk. 2 a Frisbee on a string or Venus. That is exactly what is happening.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Excellent post - S+F.




Now, ignorance is not derogatory as long as it's temporary. We all have our areas of knowledge, and most have large gaps waiting for knowledge. As long as you are willing to accept that others may have the knowledge you seek, you can learn almost anything here. But I notice that if your belief is challenged, there can be a big temper tantrum, for lack of a better term.


History has shown that when some people are presented with a good deal of knowledge by others, such great insights and advancements have at first been greeted with great passionate denial. Some people are so addicted to their beliefs they tend to act like addicts when they "assume" someone is trying to wrest from them the powerful opium of their dogma.




The art of removing bunk. Once the bunk is removed, only facts remain. I am of the impression that on a site where facts and knowledge are king, the debunker would be welcomed. Not so. Sure some enjoy the learning process, and there are many members who quietly read, and learn, all without making a single post. But the ones that challenge the integrity of debunkers seem to be missing the point.They act as if you are stealing a part of their soul when you explain the flaws in their story. Can it be attributed to just ego? Does the will to have your beliefs validated outweigh the will to learn the truth? Would you rather live in fear of a lie, than understand the reality in front of you?



When one speaks boldly, as many do here on this site, although the intention is often pure and for the betterment of all, one is bound to pick up protests by the ego minds of others here and there. Ego has the need to know it is right and that it has reached the truth. Deep down it knows it is only fooling itself and dreads the thought, so it will attempt intellectual point scoring over that which is beyond the reach of its understanding.




And for the love of all that's holy, If you ask a question, be adult enough to at least let the ones who answer you know that you read their post. Drive by posts are like drive by shootings. The work of a coward.



Amen and hallelujah Basphomet!
edit on 15-2-2015 by Involutionist because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: stirling
a reply to: network dude

I find the debunkers to be egregious fat heads at times....
They jump in to debunk anything regardless of the subject even when the poster is calling for speculation on some premise or other.....


That is a good point. If a poster is bringing speculation, they are giving the impression they are looking for a conversation about their ideas. In a productive conversation, there may be facts or information that goes against the initial speculative point. Is that a bad thing?



They have this attitude of they khow best and many threads get devolved into useless arguments over the validity of stated premise rather than discussing the posted theory....
Its all so ego driven they miss the entire point of such maunderings...and derail thoughtful threads that call for imaginative discussion of a particular premise rather than the debunking of the whole subject.
Its an attitude ATS has to lose....perhaps they have issues......no need to screw up others pondering to brow beat them with mainstream attitudes....
Some people here view it as a duty to disrupt or derail threads because they wish to appear oh so intelligent....
In actuality they are being rude and wilfully stupid.as well as ignorant.



Is the poster what you should be angry at? I mean, sure if the poster is rude, hit the alert button. But if the poster is not rude, but offers information that contradicts yours, should you attach the poster, or regroup and find better information? Lets not play games here, ego is involved in every single post. It's why we come back to see if someone answers you. But learning is the ultimate goal. Even if it hurts a bit.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:38 PM
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Would you like me to go to the post I posted the other day and add info will that make you feel better sunshine??a reply to: network dude



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes

originally posted by: stirling
many threads get devolved into useless arguments over the validity of stated premise rather than discussing the posted theory....
I'd say the second half of your sentence directly contradicts the first.

Unless what you really mean is "many threads get distracted from abject fantasy by discussion of facts."


Some conspiracies have turned out to be true, some conspiracies have turned up information about wrongdoing aside from the original conspiracy, thankfully by virtue of good discussion. Stirling makes a valid point.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: FalcoFan
a reply to: stirling

It seems to me that some of these "debunkers" are only doing so out of fear-like the concept of alien life (for example) frightens them to their core.

It's kind of funny for them to be calling ANYONE cowards.




UFO's are going to remain speculative until it's no longer just a theory. But that forum is the most critical for honest, quality debunking. If you have the best of the best, dong the research and others who are fantastic at debunking, you will eventually come up with somethings that cannot be debunked. ( they are called facts)

And a coward is the drive by poster who doesn't have the integrity to answer for his initial post.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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Debunkers are just like good Partisans.
They can't see the bigger picture.

My motto:
Assume Everything, Believe Nothing.
edit on 15-2-2015 by Eunuchorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes

originally posted by: stirling
many threads get devolved into useless arguments over the validity of stated premise rather than discussing the posted theory....
I'd say the second half of your sentence directly contradicts the first.

Unless what you really mean is "many threads get distracted from abject fantasy by discussion of facts."


Do you not see the irony of your posts?


The sour attitude you have brought into this thread is exactly the type of "debunking" people have found to be pointless!


Stirling made a good point that was easily comprehendible but you've decided to twist it in a fashion of "I'll debunk your message"...


To what gain?

I know exactly what Stirling meant.
So did others.


Is your reading comprehension lacking...
Or are you intentionally being obtuse.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: ATF1886

I thought your reply was classy. Are you feeling guilty?



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: Eunuchorn
Debunkers are just like good Partisans.
They can't see the bigger picture.

My motto:
Assume Everything, Believe Nothing.


I don't believe you.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes

originally posted by: stirling
many threads get devolved into useless arguments over the validity of stated premise rather than discussing the posted theory....
I'd say the second half of your sentence directly contradicts the first.

Unless what you really mean is "many threads get distracted from abject fantasy by discussion of facts."


Some conspiracies have turned out to be true, some conspiracies have turned up information about wrongdoing aside from the original conspiracy, thankfully by virtue of good discussion. Stirling makes a valid point.
I guarantee that any conspiracy that turns out to be true had people working hard to suss out the facts and skim off the fantasy. Just because some conspiracies turn out to be based in reality, does not give one carte blanche to post any passing fancy and expect no one to question it. A conspiracy or theory standing up to debunking is what I come to ATS to find, and many of them have been spectacular reads.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:46 PM
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At all your mad cause you know I was right and you got a$$hurt cause I responded to your post in a manner that was right, yes now I was not right for coming back with the answer I did to the poster to my post but in reality you know I was right and you can't stand it .when asked for proof I always provide whether I am right or wrong I could care less cause I learn a lot from ats but what I can't stand is when someone requires proof of set argument and provides none and you got involved with bias towards my response.

a reply to: network dude



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
Instead of attacking the debunker, verify his information. Attack that. But, do it with the same or better verifiable facts to prove your point. And if you run across someone in a forum whom you disagree with, remember, that in a different forum, they may be on your side.

And for the love of all that's holy, If you ask a question, be adult enough to at least let the ones who answer you know that you read their post. Drive by posts are like drive by shootings. The work of a coward.



The problem is most people who have a conspiracy that they believe in only look for information to support their conspiracy, they never try to debunk it themselves. They do not want to debunk it, they do not want it to be disproved, since it is their pet conspiracy.

Here are my fundamental rules when I look at any conspiracy.

In general
1. All conspiracies are based on bad/evil acts orchestrated by some generic_01 evil empire. Why are there not any good conspiracies? This in itself speaks volumes to me.

2. LOGISTICS!! Look that the logistics for the conspiracy to happen. When the logistics run out of control then it is most likely a false conspiracy.

Two examples:

911

Conspiracy 1: The evil Dick Cheney heads a secret organization to recruit suicide terrorist. They bring them here for years and train them to fly and 911 happens.

Conspiracy 2: The evil Dick Cheney has the Twin Towers and building #7 wired with micro explosives on every floor and basically blows them up.

With conspiracy 1 you have a very small and believable logistical trail, you just need to find the connection to Darth Cheney. With conspiracy 2 you have 100s if not 1000s of people involved, large corporation making the material (material that is not even known to exists) and a flawless operation from start to finsh that to this day is all still 100% secret. Boy, with conspiracy 2 it really starts to spiral out of control even before the Darth Cheney connection is even attempted.


Chemtrails

Conspiracy 1: The Government/agencies are doing localized chemtrail experiments/operations.
Not too bad, Few airplanes, controlled environment, small infrastructure etc… Just need to get samples..

Conspericy 2: Every contrail is a chemtrail in a massive operation to control the weather, people, population etc.
Ok… hard to know where to start… Is it in the gas? Maybe, but there are 100s of colleges and independent labs with cutting edge equipment that can test this theory, would actually love to test JP-8 samples…this is an easy one to solve. Special tanks in the planes, once again 10,000s or 100,000s of people involved at this point, huge factories to make the stuff, massive money trails all working in perfect secrecy.….this really spins out of control very quickly.

3. Where are the lawyers? In the end if there actually anything real there will always be an army of lawyers ready to make a buck. No lawyers means most likely not real...

4. Only one theory of a conspiracy can be true... If your conspiracy has 100s of different theories what are the chances that yours is the correct one?...be flexible to even agree with the non-conspiracy main theory if that is where it all leads.
edit on 15-2-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



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