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Christianity is a death cult

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posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:08 AM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: ketsuko

Read what Jesus said: "You are only forgiven when you forgive others. If you do not forgive others then you are not forgiven."

Pretty clear cut, but if you're trying to use another passage to discount Jesus' words, that's on you.


There are lots of things in the Bible that are clear cut when taken as single passages. Just saying that God forgives when you forgive doesn't mean it's the only time He forgives. I see nothing in the passage to indicate that.

However, at the Last Supper Christ's words are pretty explicit that his blood will be spilled for the forgiveness of sins.



Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Matthew 26: 27-29



This is my blood of the[c] covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Mark 14: 24-25



In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a]




As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 14: 9-14



“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. 2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. 3 They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.
John 16: 1-3



After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
John 17: 1-5




posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:09 AM
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originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Perhaps we could go so far as to say most Christians are actually Paulians...

most know Pauls words, yet hardly know anything in the gospels...

Pauls way is easy, it requires nothing but words... Jesus required action not just words

Faith alone is NOT "the way"



I'm personally more of a Johnnyist.

His mystical outlook sits well with me.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Death and life are the foundations of all religions. Religions based on reincarnation have as the ultimate goal to escape a cycle of death and rebirth. Animist and other primitive religions are all about worshiping the dead. Pagans had to continually make live sacrifices to their gods. Which religion does not hinge on life and death?

As to your words about Paul and what you quoted he is speaking symbolically. We are all sinners and the wages of sin are death. We are born dead in that sense since we are born into sin. Life being the spirit of life that is bestowed when one turns from wickedness and seeks the Lord which is Jesus Christ. Besides Christians are not fatalist as some would have imposed upon them they are to take up their own cross and bear out those that would seek to destroy them while in service to others and the Lord. If anything they are to have compassion for those that a materialist world view would see as weak, inferior, or even unfit for life.

There is an awful lot of projection in these types of threads and they usually stem from people who have no idea what they are talking about and have some personal axe to grind over some incident in their past. Christ death was foretold and necessary as a replacement for our eternal death so to speak. Without getting to in depth and off topic lets just say that for whatever reason , either gods purity or something else. God has determined through rules he created to decree that the universe and life will work in a certain order. That order being that sin is a taint that cannot be meshed with or reconciled with God. In order for him to not contradict or invalidate himself (which is impossible) he created a backdoor or loophole from the get go that hinges on Jesus substitution in our place so that all may come to know God and enter into the kingdom of heaven.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:11 AM
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a reply to: Punisher75

Being "dead to sin" basically means to be without guilt for the sin you commit, a.k.a. not taking personal responsibility for the bad things you do.

Paul reinforces this line of thinking, not taking personal responsibility for your sin.



16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.


"Doing the thing you do not want to do" is sin. Paul says that it is not him that is sinning, but the sin itself.

No personal responsibility. Sin all you want because you're not actually the one doing it. Great lesson. We should teach our kids the same, don't take responsibility for your actions, pass it off as something else doing it for you.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:14 AM
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Forgive me, Idk I doubt you read my first post in this thread. The op is about Christ's crucifixion, and this thread revolves around the different perspectives of what it means to us. I spoke up because I didn't see anyone mention that part of his life as a tool to bring us closer to God.

I brought up individuals having an opportunity to forgive themselves through faith in Christ and his resurrection as the only way some of us could realize the Good news for ourselves. I don't believe his work here would have been done so completely without that sacrifice. If you've broken mirrors before, maybe you could see where I'm coming from.
edit on 15-2-2015 by dffrntkndfnml because: grammer



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

He doesn't just say that forgiving others mean you are forgiven, he also says that if you DO NOT forgive others then you also ARE NOT forgiven by God.

If I forgive someone for doing wrong to me, I have been forgiven by God. No sacrifice needed.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:15 AM
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originally posted by: NihilistSanta

originally posted by: daaskapital
Good thread! I agree with most of your opinions.

Christianity has been perverted by Paul and the Catholic Church. I think it is quite clear that there are some worrisome contradictions between Jesus and Paul. Alas, Christians will just say that we have misinterpreted the scriptures, even though they themselves have been told how to interpret them and what to think by the church.

What if the Catholic Church is wrong or intentionally misrepresenting the scriptures? I'd say it seems possible...After all, what did become the Catholic Church was once only one Christian denomination out of many. That was, of course, before it became Rome's religion and started persecuting and denouncing other Christians who subscribed to different beliefs than them...

Nevertheless, it is only a matter of time until this thread kicks up some dust.


People always mention the catholic church but what about the eastern orthodox church? Although they have a few different pieces of apocrypha and have some more mystical ideas the foundations are the same. So how does it make sense that the Catholics changed everything when the orthodox church is very similar but did things their own way? I just had to ask this because I see it come up often and no one brings up this point. It is easy to look at the atrocities of an institution and lay blame for that we don't like upon them but it is a logical fallacy to dismiss the truth of their claims based on some incidents that occurred hundreds of years ago like the inquisition or the crusades etc.


The Eastern Orthodox Church derives from the Catholic Church, and as you said, many of its fundamental teachings are effectively the same. Thus, when i refer to the Catholic Church, i am also referring to many of its accepted teachings and doctrines which still exist in churches outside of it today. If it weren't for the Catholic Church and its influence, Christianity would be much more different than what it is now.
edit on 15-2-2015 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Maybe that means that the type of character necessary to forgive others for their actions towards you is the type of character that leads one to doing the things God wants of us such as loving each other and the lord. If you cant forgive others then your heart is hardened and you wont hear the call from the Lord to repentance.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:18 AM
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a reply to: daaskapital

Well, I commend you on your humility and your open-mindedness, but the "enlightened one" on the other hand has a long history of spite against Christians despite our willingness to address his/her concerns, and has proven him/herself to be anything but enlightened.

So, please forgive me for being short and casting broad generalized statements, but Im sure you can appreciate my frustration....especially after being called a member of a "death cult". In my opinion, the title of this thread was designed specifically to be inflammatory and insensitive. If it were aimed at any other religion, it would have been shut down immediately.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:19 AM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta

Yes, that may be the case, but if I forgive others, I am forgiven. No sacrifice needed.

This very simple point seems to be going over people's head for some reason.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:20 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Problems with that:

1. It presupposes you never do any wrong yourself.

2. That forgiving someone for wronging you is all it takes to absolve you of completely unrelated wrongs.

What you miss is that the concept of forgiving anyone for anything was begun by the concept of the Covenant of Grace which was what Christ came to start in the first place. No Christ; no forgiveness; not without sin offerings. Do you want to go back to the legalistic days of burnt offerings?

If so, there is a religion for that. It's called Judaism although I think they practice offertory in Hinduism too.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:20 AM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Punisher75

Being "dead to sin" basically means to be without guilt for the sin you commit, a.k.a. not taking personal responsibility for the bad things you do.

No being dead to Sin means not having any part of it. It is the call of anyone who wants to try to please God. What Paul is saying is strive to be sinless because you are supposed to want to please God but don't beat yourself up over it if you slip up because God is has made a way for you to get forgiveness. He was saying all of this because Paul had to deal with a great number of legalist, who wanted to bring back ritual practices as a means of Salvation. This is an ongoing problem for Paul in almost all of his letters.

Paul reinforces this line of thinking, not taking personal responsibility for your sin.
So why would he then say, should we continue to sin so that grace may abound? God Forbid!



16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.


Right because its not by the law that he was saved. The Law that he is talking about here is the temptation to be 'religious" and not faithful. Why would Paul have this temptation? Because it is what he was used to as a Jew who was raised on the Law and went on to even become a Pharisee. Paul loved the old laws, he made it his life work for a big part of his life.

edit on 15-2-2015 by Punisher75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:23 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Islam is a death cult.

Let's see how long it takes the mods to delete this post.

Do you not believe death cults exist? How is me pointing out Christianity being a death cult any different from you acknowledging they exist? You can dish it out but can't take it I suppose.

Do you think I'm part of a death cult?



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

LOL, so you're saying anyone who isn't Christian isn't able to forgive others because they haven't received God's grace?

If I forgive others, I am forgiven, no sacrifice needed. Loving others is more important than ALL sacrifices, if I forgive them I am showing them that I love them. If I love and forgive others then I am keeping Jesus' commands. If I keep Jesus' commands, I remain in he and his Father's love. Remaining in he and his Father's love means I have been given salvation.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:26 AM
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To those saying this is Christian bashing, I say phooey on you.

I think the one thing I've always hated the most about Christianity is Paul formerly know as Saul, without him Christianity is and would be a beautiful religion. In fact since Christianity is the worship of Christ and God, not Paul, I personally think this issue is the crux of the matter.

Honestly I think one of the things preventing me from being christian most is the insistence that Paul is anything more than some dude who hated Christian doctrine, had a seizure, ending up brain damaged, erratically changed as a result, and raped Jesus words after his brain deteriorating "vision."

Paul is not Jesus, without Paul, Christianity is a beautiful religion.

Christianity is not something to bash, but Paulism is a sick and twisted mutation of it, and in my opinion deserves scorn.
edit on AMSun, 15 Feb 2015 00:28:50 -060015America/Chicago2072015Sundayf by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:27 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Can you imagine killing someone? Do you think you would feel the same way about forgiveness?

Edit: My emotions are starting to get the better of me now. Look brother, the point I'm trying to make is that there comes a time when everyone realizes the errors they've made. In a blinding flash of clarity on the border of duality and unity consciousness we are forced to look at what we've done to our own reflection. Without being able to forgive ourselves (our deepest, ugliest, parts of ourselves) it can be easier to commit suicide then to practice healing and move forward into a deeper understanding of the highest love. In my opinion, this is a crossroads for someone's spiritual development. Sometimes I wish I never worked the darkside before.: (
edit on 15-2-2015 by dffrntkndfnml because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-2-2015 by dffrntkndfnml because: more light less fire



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:28 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

It is not going over anyone's head. It just does not make any sense within the context of the rest of Christ or even Paul's messages. You can believe in Christ, be baptized, call yourself saved but if you do all of these things and cannot forgive others then you are living a lie. Forgiving others is the opposite of pride from which all other sins derive. It is becoming humble which is the character one adopts when one has accepted Jesus and wishes to be saved. Ketsuko hit on the technicalities of how removing Christ and his sacrifice from the equation works so I wont rehash that.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:32 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove

Christianity is not something to bash, but Paulism is a sick and twisted mutation of it, and in my opinion deserves scorn.


Peter liked Paul, however warned people that his writing would be difficult to understand by some.

2 Peter 3:15-16

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Based on this I have no doubt that Paul's writing will cause many to misinterpret him.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta

So WHY doesn't Jesus mention believing in his sacrifice to be forgiven? I think that would have been his modus operendi when preaching his gospel, yet he doesn't mention anything about a sacrifice when asked what the way to life is. All he says is that you must forgive and love others.

"Jesus says to believe in him", well believing in Jesus and believing in his sacrifice are two separate things. I know you probably won't understand that, but it is true either way.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:33 AM
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a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I don't understand your question. I cannot imagine killing someone, it is not in me to do such a thing.



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