Christianity is a death cult

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Jesus died willingly in our place because he loves both of us. You completely ignored my question btw. Jesus gave us mercy. Perfect Justice would be no evil goes unpunished.

perfect justice would be no evil exists. jesus gave us mercy because god is an idiot and doesnt like to admit it.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Jesus didn't die willingly, he asked for his cup of suffering to be passed from him.

Matthew 26
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.

He even says not his will but his Father's, meaning only his Father willingly sacrificed him, if at all.

If he knew it was his Father's will to sacrifice him, why did he say this:

Matthew 27
36 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

If his sacrifice was the will of his Father then why did he think he had forsaken him?

a reply to: windword

Not one person has been spared from death because of the death of Jesus. Everybody dies.

You misunderstood what I meant. Jesus came and offered his body up for the price of our sin. Jesus also overcame the grave, just as those who die with faith in him will overcome the grave.

a reply to: TzarChasm

perfect justice would be no evil exists

Very good. Now your understanding. So if God is perfectly justice and therefore must make no evil exist why not start with you and me?

jesus gave us mercy because god is an idiot and doesnt like to admit it.

Look at your arrogance....

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
Look at your arrogance....

What's God gonna do about it? Hurricane? Flu? Some other banal explainable phenomenon that humans happen to disapprove of?

Someone fill me in, where are we in the discussion here? Christianity isn't a death cult? We still talking about that?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Okay.

So Jesus had to die for our sin (?) and then he came back to life, because he's God and all. And now, because Jesus died, if we die in faith with him during our lives (?), we will come back to life too, after we die again, for real.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus didn't die willingly, he asked for his cup of suffering to be passed from him.

You interpretations get worse and worse.

Matthew 26
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.

Jesus clearly says he wishes for the Father's will to be done rather than his own. Cross reference:

John 12
27 “Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.

Matthew 27
36 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Jesus was quoting Psalm 22

"My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?"

Read the who psalm you'll see the parallel. I pull one for you just to get you started.

verse 16
For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.


You also need to read Isaiah 53:4-5

"He bore our griefs and carried our sorrows; that he was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities; that the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him; that by his stripes we are healed”


For eternity Jesus had been one with the Father, but when he was offered up for us “God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.”(2 corinthians 5:21). So Jesus experienced for the first time the separation and loneliness brought about by sin. Only in his case it was our sin being put on him rather than his own.

a reply to: windword

So Jesus had to die for our sin (?) and then he came back to life, because he's God and all. And now, because Jesus died, if we die in faith with him during our lives (?), we will come back to life too, after we die again, for real.

Yes Jesus died for our sins. Yes faith in Him will bring a person into eternal life. You say we die. I say we change state. You either change to a state of eternal death(separation from that which is life John 14:6) or you enter into eternal life.

Let me lay this all out here in a nice, neat order.

1. God does the Old Testament, and is an utter bastard to people for thousands of years.
2. God makes Jesus for some reason. Jesus walks around being generally groovy and teaching people to be nice, although sometimes he's a little self-centered (the only way to God is through me? C'mon. That's what we in the modern world call a "middle-man". I'll take my God factory-direct, thank you)
3. God (not the Romans) decides that it's time for Jesus to die, so he fabricates a bunch of nonsense that ends up with the Romans killing him. Crafty!
4. Jesus dies a horrible death. Thanks God!
5. Jesus comes back to life. Thanks God!
6. Jesus floats away and never comes back. Dammit, God!

This is the sequence of events. At what point does the rest of the "died for our sins" nonsense come into play? Fit that in there logically for me, without sounding like a priest from the Middle-Ages.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

1. God does the Old Testament, and is an utter bastard to people for thousands of years.

I would disagree. This statement is logically fallacious as it is overly broad.

2. God makes Jesus for some reason. Jesus walks around being generally groovy and teaching people to be nice, although sometimes he's a little self-centered

First God didn't make Jesus. Jesus has existed eternally as God. The Father has existed eternally as God and the Spirit has existed eternally as God. God's nature is similar to that of an egg. One egg is a shell, white, and yolk. The three are separate but one. The same is true for God.

If Jesus is the only way to God, and that is the truth why shouldn't he tell people? Jesus came so that God's rebellious creatures(us) could reconcile with Him.

3. God (not the Romans) decides that it's time for Jesus to die, so he fabricates a bunch of nonsense that ends up with the Romans killing him. Crafty!

Jesus didn't fabricate anything. The entire OT points to Jesus, the Jews had hardened hearts.

4. Jesus dies a horrible death. Thanks God!

Jesus pays the price of sin. Thanks God! You see the difference. You see a horrible death. I see an act of love displayed by the Creator of the universe for you and me.

5. Jesus comes back to life. Thanks God!

ok.

6. Jesus floats away and never comes back. Dammit, God!

Are you omniscient? How do you know he never comes back?

At what point does the rest of the "died for our sins" nonsense come into play?

Well it came into play in the OT. Maybe you should go re-read.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
I would disagree. This statement is logically fallacious as it is overly broad.

He tested people's faith by doing horrible, horrible things to them. He wiped all life off the face of the planet except what could fit onto one little boat. He decided that the Hebrews were super-special and needed a lot of things handed to them, to the detriment of the Egyptians. He chucked Adam and Eve out of paradise for eating some fruit and trying out a new look. He destroyed Sodom and Gamhorra because gays. He's pretty much a bastard.

First God didn't make Jesus. Jesus has existed eternally as God. The Father has existed eternally as God and the Spirit has existed eternally as God. God's nature is similar to that of an egg. One egg is a shell, white, and yolk. The three are separate but one. The same is true for God.

If Jesus is the only way to God, and that is the truth why shouldn't he tell people? Jesus came so that God's rebellious creatures(us) could reconcile with Him.

Seems a bit needlessly complicated. So Jesus is the only way to God because he says so? And we just believe that, do we?

Jesus didn't fabricate anything. The entire OT points to Jesus, the Jews had hardened hearts.

Hey, the Jews believe in the God of the Old Testament. They're even more self-deprecating than Christians; all they get is God the Bastard from the Old Testament.

Jesus pays the price of sin. Thanks God! You see the difference. You see a horrible death. I see an act of love displayed by the Creator of the universe for you and me.

What was the point of doing it this way in specific? Why make a human avatar, have it be really nice to people, then die? Surely there is a simpler way to.....wait what exactly does Jesus's death accomplish? Whatever it is, God has a terrible sense of plot development. His narrative has a lot of holes, his logic is awful, and his character direction is uneven.

Are you omniscient? How do you know he never comes back?

He hasn't yet, has he?

Well it came into play in the OT. Maybe you should go re-read.

I have a long list of much, much better fiction to read first.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

He tested people's faith by doing horrible, horrible things to them. He wiped all life off the face of the planet except what could fit onto one little boat. He decided that the Hebrews were super-special and needed a lot of things handed to them, to the detriment of the Egyptians. He chucked Adam and Eve out of paradise for eating some fruit and trying out a new look. He destroyed Sodom and Gamhorra because gays. He's pretty much a bastard.

Every statement you made completely ignores the context of what was going on. You have been taught these things by an antithesist. You are no better than Christians who go around spouting stupid things like Decemeber 25th is Christ Birthday....

Seems a bit needlessly complicated. So Jesus is the only way to God because he says so? And we just believe that, do we?

I believe that because I believe the historical evidence points to that man being raised from the dead. There is simplicity in Christ. Accept what he did for you, confess he is lord and you get eternal life. Nothing complicated about that at all. I'll ask you the same question I asked Tzar. How is a perfectly just God to reconcile with rebellious creatures without impending on his perfect righteousness and his perfect mercy? I will also tell you God's answer: Jesus.

What was the point of doing it this way in specific?

Short answer: God's character demands certain things of HIm.

wait what exactly does Jesus's death accomplish?

A way to reconcile with God. You have evil in you friend and so do I. Heaven is a place in which no evil exist. Apart from the Grace of Christ we can never be seen as clean from that evil and therefore will not be allowed in.

He hasn't yet, has he?

No but his coming is near. The chips are all falling into place. This being a conspiracy website I am surprised more people dont see it. The Bible mentions a one world gov't under lucifer divided into ten regions.. Think its a coincidence the world leaders and the entertainment industry are all followers of some form of Luciferianism. Think its a coincidence the United nations divided the world into ten economic regions? The Bible mentions a one world currency. HMMM NWO wants a global currency. I mean wake up man. The time is close and the signs are smacking everyone in the face. No one wants to listen.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

No but his coming is near.

And then........destruction and death for everyone not in the club.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: windword

ServantoftheLamb:
So Jesus had to die for your sin (?) and then he came back to life, because he's God and all. And now, because Jesus died, if we die in faith with him during our lives (?), we will come back to life too, after we die again, for real.

Which sins; exactly, Jesus rectified/absolved all past present and future sins ARE forgiven? We should be looting the "Targets or Trader Joes, Walmarts" closest to our homesteads; as are absolved of SIN can do no wrong in partaking of the action of sinning. This sin is just about stealing from another there are 9 more to take advantage of.

a reply to: windword

And then........destruction and death for everyone not in the club.

Yea it gets bad. There is a chance to accept HIm, and make it to the wedding feast during the seven years though.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Which sins; exactly, Jesus rectified/absolved all past present and future sins ARE forgiven?

Yes past, present, and future sins as long as the sin isn't renouncing the holy spirit.

We should be looting the "Targets or Trader Joes, Walmarts" closest to our homesteads; as are absolved of SIN can do no wrong in partaking of the action of sinning

This is completely irrational as thats not how relationships work in this world, why would you think a relationship with God would be any different? If someone forgives me my impulse is not to upset them again. Its to do right by them the next time. God has forgiven me and expressed an extreme amount of love for me. why would I want to upset him by running rampant in sin? You see what non-believers don't understand is that Christ changes a persons heart. Do some people struggle with temptation more than others? Yes. Its wrong of you however to assume that just because someone does something wrong they are doing it because they know they will be forgiven. You see I sin simply because of my nature. I do it instinctively sometimes. I don't even think about it being a sin. I fall short. We all do. Thats why God displayed his love for us, by accepting the punishment we deserved from a perfectly just God so that we may receive mercy.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
Every statement you made completely ignores the context of what was going on. You have been taught these things by an antithesist. You are no better than Christians who go around spouting stupid things like Decemeber 25th is Christ Birthday....

I was born and raised Catholic. Attended Catholic school, went to church way too often, and took religion classes. Made up my mind there was no god and that it was all nonsense before I was even a teenager. You presume too much.

In what context is it OK to wipe all of life off the face of the Earth because "mankind is too sinful?"

I believe that because I believe the historical evidence points to that man being raised from the dead. There is simplicity in Christ. Accept what he did for you, confess he is lord and you get eternal life. Nothing complicated about that at all.

You certainly said it with only a handful of words, sure. But that's the most convoluted, illogical concept there is.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Tzar. How is a perfectly just God to reconcile with rebellious creatures without impending on his perfect righteousness and his perfect mercy? I will also tell you God's answer: Jesus.

There are so many pre-loaded assumptions in that question, I don't even know where to begin.

Short answer: God's character demands certain things of HIm.

According to whom? We know God's character how?

A way to reconcile with God. You have evil in you friend and so do I. Heaven is a place in which no evil exist. Apart from the Grace of Christ we can never be seen as clean from that evil and therefore will not be allowed in.

Again, could there be a more complicated way to accomplish this? AND, on topic for the thread, how does this not make Christianity a cult of death? Only through the sacrifice of the soul of God himself encased in a flesh avatar can we be admitted into heaven. A single deed, at a random arbitrary point in human history, and we're all absolved of our sins. Everything that went on BEFORE Christ all worked under a different ruleset. No Christ needed, but an awful lot of livestock slaughtering and woman trading and sinner stoning. Dude dies. Rules change. Now 2000+ years later we still get the "benefits" from dude dying. None of this adds up to the thoughts of a rational human being.

No but his coming is near. The chips are all falling into place. This being a conspiracy website I am surprised more people dont see it. The Bible mentions a one world gov't under lucifer divided into ten regions.. Think its a coincidence the world leaders and the entertainment industry are all followers of some form of Luciferianism. Think its a coincidence the United nations divided the world into ten economic regions? The Bible mentions a one world currency. HMMM NWO wants a global currency. I mean wake up man. The time is close and the signs are smacking everyone in the face. No one wants to listen.

More people don't see it because ATS is populated by people capable of rational thought. No one wants to listen because there's no such thing as prophecy. Stop living in fear of what your fellow man is doing, stop waiting desperately for the return of a random wise(ish) man from two millennia ago, and stop craving the destruction of the world through a religious apocalypse. It's sickening. Live your life and enjoy it while you can.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

You expect to party while the world burns?

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

VHB:
Which sins; exactly, Jesus rectified/absolved all past present and future sins ARE forgiven?

ServantOfTheLamb: Yes past, present, and future sins as long as the sin isn't renouncing the holy spirit.

Who or what is the 'holy spirit' exactly, what does it represent? Do not tell me 'spirit' as if attempted, mankinds or gods, is it faith in is it faith out (spirit exponential/everlasting).

VHB: We should be looting the "Targets or Trader Joes, Walmarts" closest to our homesteads; as are absolved of SIN can do no wrong in partaking of the action of sinning.

ServantOftheLamb: This is completely irrational as thats not how relationships work in this world, why would you think a relationship with God would be any different? If someone forgives me my impulse is not to upset them again. Its to do right by them the next time. God has forgiven me and expressed an extreme amount of love for me. why would I want to upset him by running rampant in sin? You see what non-believers don't understand is that Christ changes a persons heart. Do some people struggle with temptation more than others? Yes. Its wrong of you however to assume that just because someone does something wrong they are doing it because they know they will be forgiven. You see I sin simply because of my nature. I do it instinctively sometimes. I don't even think about it being a sin. I fall short. We all do. Thats why God displayed his love for us, by accepting the punishment we deserved from a perfectly just God so that we may receive mercy.

If you understood the polarity of energies and how they impact each other I would put on my extra large donkey ears. My analogy is not irrational at all. Sins are forgiven go and rob Target Stores. My relationship with the AUO is apparently different than yours (WHY NOT). Why do you need to be forgiven (what crime committed other than thought provoked/ perceived rampant sin). I am not a non-believer of anything (very open minded). I can assume anything I wish as it is my personal 'observation' and not WRONG (to my mind). You proclaim: "God displayed his love for us, by accepting the punishment we deserved from a perfectly just God so as to receive mercy"? You realize if you actually believe this; YOUR GOD (the one you worship) IS CLINICALLY INSANE.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Worshiping a man's death and torture and believing that it was good is a very morbid thing. Jesus did not come to die for sins, he came to teach us the way to God, and that does not include his death at the hands of the Romans. How do you come to God? Not by believing in a sacrifice that Jesus himself said he had no desire for, it is by loving others as yourself and loving God. If you love others then that is a sign of loving God, whether you acknowledge it or not.

That is the truest most upright thing I have come across in a while. Thank Heavens! God is still alive!