Over 40 Ways Putin’s Russia is Alarmingly Reminiscent of 1930s Nazi Germany

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ratpunk

What reasons do Russia use for its involvement in these places?

Umm, to stop American aggression ?

To stop the world from being run by one mega corp ?

This is where people seem to get confused......the American government no longer represents its people it represents their corporate overlords ...nothing more nothing less....

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: learnatic

What a pathetic mind to cut and paste the same quote in so many places on ATS.

cant attack the idea so you attack the persons a?

Sounds similiar to the plans of all the other (western-imperial) governments

a reply to: Xcathdra

replace russia with usa and it will feel right

Meanwhile the real Nazis had an announcement

Ukraine's Right Sector, Azov regiment pledge compliance with ceasefire order

Whether they intend to stand by their announcement or not is up for debate after Dmitry Yarosh's statement last Friday.

In a statement published on his Facebook page on Friday, ultranationalist leader Dmitry Yarosh claimed that the peace agreement has no legal merit and that it is contrary to Ukraine’s constitution.

Only time will tell

www.kyivpost.com...

I don't particularly trust anything the kievpost says but it is the only one carrying the story so far.

originally posted by: sosobad
Meanwhile the real Nazis had an announcement

Ukraine's Right Sector, Azov regiment pledge compliance with ceasefire order

Whether they intend to stand by their announcement or not is up for debate after Dmitry Yarosh's statement last Friday.

In a statement published on his Facebook page on Friday, ultranationalist leader Dmitry Yarosh claimed that the peace agreement has no legal merit and that it is contrary to Ukraine’s constitution.

Only time will tell



www.kyivpost.com...



I don't particularly trust anything the kievpost says but it is the only one carrying the story so far.

Yeah we know where the self proclaimed Nazis are, and this thread is just silly because there are people out there claiming to be Nazis in Ukraine which are against Putin, they do the whole Sieg Hail and all, and Putin gets called the Nazi, talk about turnabout, this is lunacy.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I was told to continue the discussion we were having on neo Nazis in Ukraine on this thread. I agree that the two threads shouldn't have been combined but hey who am I to argue with the mods, no interest in the op but I will comply with the order.

a reply to: Xcathdra

And here is why the comparison is complete bull #.

Putin has near 8000 nuclear war head.

Hitler had none.

France and UK both in 2015 have about 200 Nuclear war heads each

France and UK in 1930 had none.

USA has 7000 nuclear warhead.

USA in 1930 barely had a army.


So lets use some very simple logic.

Hitler steamrolled across Europe cause # yeah ! he could.

Putin can not steamroll across Europe because he would face nuclear annihilation from UK, France and USA.



France and UK could have fought Hitler even before Poland because Hitler did not have nukes.

France/UK/USA can not march in to Russia cause they would face nuclear annihilation.


Therefore I place it to the OP and everyone else beating the war drum. The situation if very different from 1930. And that difference is MAD.

Anyway as per instruction of moderators I shall attempt to bring things back on topic; Modern Day Nazis In The Ukraine Do you Support Them? Why Or Why Not?. This is a paper concerning the rise of fascism in Ukraine, bit of history and all that.

The Return of the Ukrainian Far Right

The far-right tradition is particularly strong in western Ukraine. Today a signi fi cant ultra-nationalist party, the All-Ukrainian Association ( Vseukrains’ke Ob ’’ iednanne , VO) Svoboda, appears to be on the verge of a political breakthrough at the national level. This article is a survey, not only of its ideology and the political tradition to which it belongs but also of the political climate which facilitated its growth. It contextualizes the current turn to the right in western Ukraine

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



I was told to continue the discussion we were having on neo Nazis in Ukraine on this thread. I agree that the two threads shouldn't have been combined but hey who am I to argue with the mods, no interest in the op but I will comply with the order.

Good point I guess I should get the Op from the other thread and start it up here as this is where we are supposd to discuss the self proclaimed Nazis as the MOD asked me to. . . . LOLZ!

originally posted by: Xcathdra

And yes I think the US and NATO should roll in and force Russian forces back into their own country. Appeasement only gives putin more of an incentive to act like Hitler.

Congratulations you just started WW3 and ended the world.

Now everyone losses.

Id give you a medal but we are all dead.

*clap" *clap" *clap*

originally posted by: EternalSolace
Russia could roll over the entirety of Europe, and the apologist would accept it and consider it not a threat. So long as it isn't their country... who cares!

No they cant.

A nuclear armed NATO that would annihilate Russia (and the world) prevents that's.

Same reason the USSR never steamrolled other west Europe 1950'-1990's and why NATO didn not steamroll into East Europe.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
Anyway as per instruction of moderators I shall attempt to bring things back on topic; Modern Day Nazis In The Ukraine Do you Support Them? Why Or Why Not?. This is a paper concerning the rise of fascism in Ukraine, bit of history and all that.

The Return of the Ukrainian Far Right

The far-right tradition is particularly strong in western Ukraine. Today a signi fi cant ultra-nationalist party, the All-Ukrainian Association ( Vseukrains’ke Ob ’’ iednanne , VO) Svoboda, appears to be on the verge of a political breakthrough at the national level. This article is a survey, not only of its ideology and the political tradition to which it belongs but also of the political climate which facilitated its growth. It contextualizes the current turn to the right in western Ukraine

There is one bit that stood out to me after a brief read through.

Columbia university historian Tarik Cyril Amar describes the situation in western Ukraine as the "no enemies to the right syndrome".

I am struggling to understand this statement, is he alluding to the fact that neo Nazis are more widely accepted in Ukraine than we are led to believe?

a reply to: sosobad

is he alluding to neo Nazis being more widely accepted in Ukraine than we are led to believe?

I believe so, many fascist and ultra nationalist movements in Europe are widely condemned to the point where anti-fascist groups will organise to combat their gatherings, marches etc in the press and in the streets. This happens often in France, Germany and the UK, not so much in Western Ukraine though it would be appear.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: sosobad

is he alluding to neo Nazis being more widely accepted in Ukraine than we are led to believe?

I believe so, many fascist and ultra nationalist movements in Europe are widely condemned to the point where anti-fascist groups will organise to combat their gatherings, marches etc in the press and in the streets. This happens often in France, Germany and the UK, not so much in Western Ukraine though it would be appear.

That is what I got from it as well, granted I only had a quick review of it. It seems that not only was the fascist and ultra nationalist behavior allowed but actively encouraged, from the rise of Svoboda and the "autonomous" nationals (whatever that means) right through to the Right Sector. Scary if true and even more frightening is the fact that western nations would support these people.

a reply to: sosobad

The people of Donbass were not joking when they claimed fascists had effectively taken over the Ukrainian government, its something that still baffles me, how people can ignore that one of the major reasons sparking this civil war was a fundamental rejection of the dangerous ideology that was taking power in Western Ukraine. Convienently ignored I guess to fit the narrative of the propaganda we are seeing I suppose.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: sosobad

The people of Donbass were not joking when they claimed fascists had effectively taken over the Ukrainian government, its something that still baffles me, how people can ignore that one of the major reasons sparking this civil war was a fundamental rejection of the dangerous ideology that was taking power in Western Ukraine. Convienently ignored I guess to fit the narrative of the propaganda we are seeing I suppose.

True, the people from the maidan protests were painted as some sort of revolutionaries and I will concede that most just wanted change but a sinister ideology was lurking in the background totally in control of it. From the outburst of violence that happened when the otherwise peaceful maidan protests started to false flag sniper that killed both protestors and police alike, the violence that was perpetrated against MPs in Parliament that spoke out against the ultra nationalists. This was all ignored by western msm and actually commended by western governments. The people of the Donbass were not so easily intimidated and stood their ground against the tidal wave of hate that consumed Ukraine.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

Thank you for linking to that paper. It makes clear many of the points I have been trying to explain, although it approaches them from the opposite angle. The fact of the matter is that the symbols of Nazism mean something entirely different to Ukrainians than they do to other people, due to the severity of Russian oppression. This scholar has the usual left leaning bias of academia, but his observations are correct. For example:

Yushchenko’s mythmaking had two central components. The fi rst was the presentation of the 1932–1933 famine as “the genocide of the Ukrainian nation,” a deliberate attempt to exterminate the Ukrainians which, his mythmakers claimed, resulted in the death of 10 million people in the republic.

[p.231]

Although Rudling refers to it as a "myth," it is an historical fact. It is a "myth" only insofar as it is used to create a nationalist narrative, like the "Boston Tea Party" or the "Gunpowder Plot." When Ukrainians look to the Nazi collaborators of the Second World War, they do not see their crimes, they see them as liberators. You cannot blame an entire people because in building a nation its leaders have turned history into myth. This is why I am always so careful to distinguish between the Russian people, who have no choice but to believe what Putin's media tells them, and Putin, who is responsible for the slow but, in his eyes, inevitable reconquest of the Russian Empire.

Just as the Ukrainian people look to a mythologized past of victimization and resistance, the Russian people are being fed a mythologized diet of former glory and current persecution. This mythologization is an inevitable part of nationalism. Nationalism can serve a useful function, it can unite people of diverse ethnicity and create a smoothly functioning society, as Tito managed to do in Yugoslavia. Unfortunately, it can also deteriorate into tribalism or be used as an excuse for military aggression, as it is being used by Vladimir Putin, who uses nationalism in the form of "protecting ethnic Russians" as an excuse for carving up his neighbors.

For the record, I generally dislike nationalism because of its tendency to lead to conflict, but it is an inevitable phase for new nations to go through. The former SSRs are struggling to find a national identity distinct from the one imposed on it by Communism. In Central Asia, there is a drift towards Islamist monarchy that has yet to show up on the Western media's radar. In Eastern and Central Europe, the newly reborn nations are tapping into historical and legendary narratives stretching as far back as the Middle Ages and beyond. Unfortunately, Ukraine's myth makers chose a set of heroes that conflict with the mythology of their neighbors!

Despite this author's bias, he does say something that certain members need to consider:

During the Cold War, US, West German, and British intelligence utilized various OUN wings in ideological warfare and covert actions against the Soviet Union (Breitman and Goda, 2010: 73– 98; Breitman, Goda, Naftali and Wolfe, 2005). Funded by the CIA, which sponsored Lebed’s immigration to the United States and protected him from prosecution for war crimes, OUN(z) activists formed the core of the Proloh Research and Publishing Association, a pro-nationalist semiacademic publisher.

[p. 230]

I explain my attitude towards this in this thread:

What Anti-Americanism Can Learn FRom The Failure Of Anti-Communism

But, he goes on to say:

The United States was repelled by the radicalism of the OUN(b), by far the largest Ukrainian émigré political party, and did not support their aim of a violent, possibly nuclear, confrontation with the Soviet Union, aiming at its breakup into a galaxy of successor states. The aim of rolling back Soviet communism did not translate into US support for the establishment of an authoritarian, nuclear Ukraine under OUN rule.

[p. 230]

In other words: no, the United States did not want to finance a "Nazi coup." In fact, leaked diplomatic cables also prove that the United States did not want to seek NATO membership for Ukraine, for fear of antagonizing Russia.

The heat on these threads about the Ukraine situation come from the friction generated by two conflicting nationalist narratives. Ukraine sees itself as having a long history of being oppressed by Russia, with unsavory Nazi sympathizers cleaned up and presented as liberators while Russia sees itself as the "Third Rome," destined to spread its enlightened form of culture across Eurasia, despite the evil machinations of the American Empire, which is behind everything in the world that Russia finds threatening.

As members of a community dedicated to denying ignorance, we should all try to keep this in mind on these threads. Instead of attacking one another personally, we need to discuss why leaders in Russia, Ukraine, Europe and the United States are making the decisions they are from both a strategic, tactical and even mythological point of view.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

The people of Donbass were not joking when they claimed fascists had effectively taken over the Ukrainian government

They were not joking, they were lying. Russian agitators have been spreading the Russian myth of Ukraine's history rather than the Ukrainian version. These myths conflict, so pro-Russian propaganda has to inflate the influence of the far right to underscore the feeling of persecution central to the Russian national myth.

a reply to: DJW001

Damn, you are taking it too far. You really want that raise, huh?
All stuff you are saying is just ridiculous and I cannot honestly believe that even you are buying any of this. Of course, Russians have been lying since the beginning of the mankind with only one purpose to...I have nothing, because I don't see a point, but obviously you can see it. Ridiculous, I do not think anyone is taking you seriously.