Over 40 Ways Putin’s Russia is Alarmingly Reminiscent of 1930s Nazi Germany

a reply to: ColCurious

You may disagree with others on how the (dis)info should be dealt with, but I don`t see anything other as there`s dealing with it, only not in the your preferred way.

But be my guest and knock yourself out with wanting to intellectually disprove the points being made in the OP while they are legit and the problem doesn`t lie with the points themselves, but with the association with only Russia while they could apply to other nations just as easily...and when pointing out to that isn`t enough for you...I make some popcorn to see what arguments you would come up with, and because the argument about it can imply to other countries just as easily isn`t enough for you, what`s left for you to do is write about the differences.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And sadly, they are not Here to help out the truth. When you present evidence, as I Try to, the resort to sidetracking, shifting the goal post, sloganing and emotional argument, and ad hominem attacks.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I did address the content of the OP in my first post.

Get you popcorn and read it again here..

I'm still waiting for a reply though.

a reply to: ColCurious

You did and you didn`t.

I don`t see you point out specific about what points you`re talking about, why they differ, which ones are similar and which ones are exaggerated, you stay very undefined, so you expect me to do what you don`t do yourself...?

I find it Interesting, that the country who is preventing the USA from taking full control of the black sea. Is being called Nazi's. Or the fact That by doing this Syria, Iran and other countries targeted for complete destruction have been given an extension. If it was not for Russia stepping in these and other countries would be in ruin.

Unfortunately though we are told it is for Ukraine blah blah blah. The real reason is we wanted open acess to that area. Don't for a second think that America helps countries for the good. We do it for 2 reasons. Military strategy or God(gold oil drugs).

a reply to: ColCurious


Because it is possible do both at the same time.

The last time the US puts its own interests first resulted in WWI and WWII. European appeasement was the name of game and both times it failed, costing everyone. If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine then where? The Baltics? Poland? E. Europe? Comments made by Putin support the possibility of targets outside of Ukraine.

The US cannot tell Ukraine they are on their own until we get our things in order. As we have seen getting a nation in order is not as easy, or as quick, as some people think.

To address comments made by others -
Had they read the op in its entirety they would have seen my comments about European governmnets and their inabi9lity to deal with this in comparison to their same stance back in WWI / WWII.

I also posted this -

You are more than welcome to post your comparison of this list to the west. All I ask is you at least link to sources to support why you think it applies.

The op states they are "observations", and they are ones I agree with. The door was opened for individuals to do their own comparisons with other governments. All I asked is if a claim is made at least support it with information / sources.

Its one thing to yell propaganda and put your fingers in your ears.. Its debate when the propaganda claim is backed up with facts that support the propaganda claim.

I make it a point to tell people to refute claims, and I did so in this thread as well. Instead people went for the personal attack while ignoring the op and the request made.

I am anti-putin and not anti Russian.
I do not work for the federal government or any of its agencies.
My educational background is in political science-public law and these topics interest me a great deal.
As for propaganda claims the exact same argument can be applied to those who support the Russian side and post their position / info accordingly. Trying to accuse me of spreading propaganda while others do the very same on their side is hypocritical.

If people read the op they would have noticed its the person opinion, and that is supported by the fact the used the term Reminiscent.

1: of the character of or relating to reminiscence

2: marked by or given to reminiscence

3: tending to remind : suggestive

— rem·i·nis·cent·ly adverb

If people would engage the topic instead of the person we might actually get to have a decent back and forth debate / discussion. However that becomes impossible when people are so intent on only having one side of the coin presented that they go out of there way to intentionally derail a thread while attacking other members and offering absolutely nothing to refute whats posted.

When I participate in threads made by others I don't agree with I make it a point to support my posts with links to sources c/ facts so everyone can see how I arrived at my position. Is it to much to ask that the same courtesy be extended?

While we can go back and forth all day on who is on the Ukraine side and who is on the Russian side but we must remember there are a LOT of members who aren't taking either side and genuinely want to see both sides looked at and debated.

For those who continually accuse me of thing all I have to say is if that's all you can do, attack me while ignoring the facts while claiming they are all lies, then why bother posting? Surely you can post information refuting the claims.

Every time you point a finger at someone bear in mind there are 3 fingers pointing back at yourself.

a reply to: ratpunk

What reasons do Russia use for its involvement in these places?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

True. I didn't go into detail in my post. I give you that.

I thought about it - but then I didn't. To be honest I was hoping the author would reply and debate.
After all - the author of this thread asked for "sources to support why the points apply to the west aswell" in the OP.
But neither him, nor the source linked in the OP, explain why the points apply to Russia (exclusively) in the first place.

1930's Germany - Germans enjoyed beer ** 2014 Russia - Russian's enjoyed beer
1930's Germany - Germans owned cats ** 2014 Russia - Russians also owned cats.

You can obviously see the comparison. Please debate how both countries can enjoy beer and cats AND not be NAZI's.

**nods knowingly with fingers touched together in pyramid shape**

In all honesty after being very interested in world affairs I have yet to see a Russian battalion goose stepping, wearing SS emblems and swastikas and doing the NAZI salute through Moscow, Crimea or the Ukraine. Yet I have seen Ukrainian Battalions goose stepping, wearing SS emblems and swastikas and doing the NAZI salute through Moscow, Crimea or the Ukraine.. These include the AZOV Battalion one of the many armed groups support by Kiev Government and the National Socialist Assembly and Right_Sector.

So, lets try an OP's comparision.

1930's Germany - Battalions goose stepping, wearing SS emblems and swastikas and doing the NAZI salute CHECK

2014 Ukraine - Battalions goose stepping, wearing SS emblems and swastikas and doing the NAZI salute CHECK

2014 Russia - Battalions goose stepping, wearing SS emblems and swastikas and doing the NAZI salute FAIL

2014 Ukraine - Owns cats

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ColCurious

Because it is possible do both at the same time.

The last time the US puts its own interests first resulted in WWI and WWII. European appeasement was the name of game and both times it failed, costing everyone. If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine then where? The Baltics? Poland? E. Europe? Comments made by Putin support the possibility of targets outside of Ukraine.

The US cannot tell Ukraine they are on their own until we get our things in order. As we have seen getting a nation in order is not as easy, or as quick, as some people think.

Thanks for your reply.

Well, it looks like we have a very different understanding of what lead to WWI, and subsequently WWII.

As for stopping Putin.
I just believe policy of confrontation is a bad strategy among nuclear superpowers. Especially since we don't even know the position and agenda of all players involved.

Now, as for getting OUR things in order FIRST. THIS is where it gets interesting.
You said it yourself at the end of your post: Every time you point a finger at someone...

If we would actually hold the authority, integrity, credibility and moral high ground, to tell Putin that he cannot violate international law and expect the free-world to do nothing... we might not even be where we are now.
Alas - we don't hold it.

We, the people, allowed our political leaders and their financiers to set the precedents for this.
We cannot convince the world to take a united stand against Putin (or any other totalitarian, imperialist leader or entity) unless we lead by example.

Also, how about we look at it from a rather selfish point of view: I wan't to live in freedom.
And if we in the western world lived in a truly free world here, the imperialist politics emanating from our own states (which are at least half of the west-east-schism) wouldn't even happen.

The politicians and oligarchs in our own corrupt power structures who are beating the war drums now, are the same who are responsible for our loss of liberties in the "free-world", and they are also in bed with the major beneficiaries of our ongoing conflicts.

If you play their game - you aid your own enemy.

*I agree 100% with the rest of your post.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I just want to know,to which thread should I be replying too? This one or "Modern Day Nazis In The Ukraine Do you Support Them? Why Or Why Not?"

I mean I am totally confused by a mod moving them together when the other thread had nothing to do with Russia or Putin???? Someone please clue me in here.

a reply to: Reinmax

doing the NAZI salute through Moscow

Let me help you

Picture 1

Picture two

I'll add an RT link to with a salute, here you go

And now the latest: Pavel Gubarev, the former “People’s Governor” of Donetsk and one of the earliest separatist leaders to gain prominence, bragged on his Facebook page the other day about a “real Italian fascist” joining the rebel cause to fight against “the wrong kind of Nazis — the pro-American ones.” Gubarev himself is, as I have written, a longstanding member of Russia’s neo-Nazi “Russian National Unity” movement

Source

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Any reason you ignore Russia's neo Nazis and racial hatred and only concentrate on Ukraine? Are you guys intentionally ignoring Russia's actions in this area or do you ignore it because its Russia doing the things you are trying to call Ukraine out on?

* - Russian Neo-Nazis Allegedly Lure, Torture Gay Teens With Online Dating Scam
* - Russia's Anti-Gay Law, Spelled Out in Plain English

Russian Neo Nazis

Many Russian neo-Nazis openly admire Adolf Hitler and use the swastika as their symbol. Russian neo-Nazis are characterized by racism, antisemitism, homophobia, Islamophobia and extreme xenophobia towards people from Asia.[72] Their ideology centers on defending Russian national identity against what they perceive as a takeover by minority groups such as Jews, Caucasians, homosexuals, Central Asians, East Asians, Roma people, and Muslims.

Russian neo-Nazis have made it an explicit goal to take over the country by force, and have put serious effort into preparing for this. Paramilitary organizations operating under the guise of sports clubs have trained their members in squad tactics, hand to hand combat and weapons handling. They have stockpiled and used weapons, often illegally.

Observers have noted the irony of Russians embracing neo-Nazism, because one of Hitler's ambitions at the start of World War II was to exterminate, expel, or enslave most or all Slavs from central and eastern Europe (i.e., Russians, Ukrainians, Poles etc.).[73] At the end of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, over 25 million Soviet citizens had died.[74] In a 2007 news story, ABC News reported, "In a country that lost more people defeating the Nazis than any other country, there are now an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total."[75] This irony is further exemplified when looking at neo-Nazi groups such as the Gay Aryan Skinheads (GASH) and the Gay Aryan National Socialists (GANS), who emphasise the "man's fight" for fascism in Russia; these groups together have thousands of members. One of these groups, GANS, has a flag depicting two crossed erect penises beneath a swastika. [76]

The dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 caused great economic and social problems, including widespread unemployment and poverty. Several far right paramilitary organizations were able to tap into popular discontent, particularly among marginalized, lesser educated and unemployed youths. Of the three major age groups — youths, adults, and the elderly — youths may have been hit the hardest. The elderly suffered due to inadequate (or unpaid) pensions, but they found effective political representation in the Communist Party, and generally had their concerns addressed through better budget allocations. Adults, although often suffering financially and psychologically due to job losses, were generally able to find new sources of income.

Russian National Unity (RNE), founded in 1990 and led by Alexander Barkashov, has claimed to have members in 250 cities. RNE adopted the swastika as its symbol, and sees itself as the avant-garde of a coming national revolution. It is critical of other major far right organizations, such as the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR). Historian Walter Laqueur calls RNE far closer to the Nazi model than the LDPR. RNE publishes several news sheets; one of them, Russky poryadok, claims to have a circulation of 150,000. Full members of RNE are called Soratnik (comrades in arms), receive combat training at locations near Moscow, and many of them work as security officers or armed guards.[77]

On August 15, 2007, Russian authorities arrested a student for allegedly posting a video on the Internet which appears to show two migrant workers being beheaded in front of a red and black swastika flag.[78] Alexander Verkhovsky, the head of a Moscow-based center that monitors hate crime in Russia, said, "It looks like this is the real thing. The killing is genuine ... There are similar videos from the Chechen war. But this is the first time the killing appears to have been done intentionally."[79] A Russian neo-Nazi group called the Russian National Socialist Party claimed responsibility for the murders.

* - Radical Nationalism in Russia

Breakdown of Russia's Duma -
LDPR Political Party - Holds 56 seats in Duma

Opposing both communism and the "wild" capitalism of the 1990s, the party scored a major success in the 1993 Russian Duma elections, receiving a plurality of votes. In the elections in 2007, the party received 8.14% of the vote, giving it 40 of the 450 seats in the State Duma. In the 2011 elections, they increased their percentage to 11.4%. The party's brand and organization center on the personality of its leader, Zhirinovsky.

Despite the party's name, it is frequently described[by whom?] as "neither liberal nor democratic."[8] While the party describes itself as centrist and reformist,[citation needed] it is usually regarded[by whom?] as far-right and is identified[by whom?] with Russian ultranationalism, fiscally left national-populism and authoritarian conservatism.[9][10][11] Its ideology is based primarily on Zhirinovsky's ideas of "imperial reconquest" (a "renewed Russian Empire")[12] and on an authoritarian vision of a "Greater Russia".[11][13]

The Russia Duma has more Neo Nazis / Ultra radicals than Ukraine does.

Political Parties in Russia classified as Ultra-nationalist:
##Black Hundreds
##Eurasia Party
##Mladorossi
##National Bolshevik Party
##National Bolshevik Front
##National Salvation Front
##Pamyat
##LDPR
##People's National Party
##Russian National Socialist Party
##Russian National Union
##Russian National Unity
##Slavic Union

Racism in Russia -

Racism in Russia appears mainly in the form of negative attitudes and actions by Russians towards people who are not considered ethnically Russian. Traditionally, Russian racism included antisemitism, as well as hostility towards various ethnicities of Caucasus and Central Asia.[1] The director of the Moscow Bureau for Human Rights, Alexander Brod, stated that surveys show xenophobia and other racist expressions are prevalent in 50 percent of Russians.

This is how Russia views non Russians in their neck of the woods.

So while you continue to point fingers at Ukraine, trying to paint any individual who does not support Russia as a Nazi, maybe you should look in your own backyard first.

Do the actions of certain groups in Ukraine represent all of Ukraine and conversely do the actions of certain groups in Russia represent all of Russia?

I'll quote this post to, thanks for this information Xcathdra

a reply to: Xcathdra
I did. It is simple The USA wants full control of the region. Russia knows this. They played a better hand. It is a simple millitary move. With this move our Navy has limited acess. Without this acess the play of full control is still limited.

Russia is just protecting from an agressive attack. So how can they be treated as aggressive force if powers to be are trying to eliminate other countries?

Anyone with simple knowledge of whats really going on can see this is an act of war on our behalf. But we are playing like this is not happening. Smoke n mirrors.

I am shocked. We as a country are being sent in to WWIII and blaming other countries for not allowing us to destroy other countries.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ratpunk

What reasons do Russia use for its involvement in these places?

Umm, to stop American aggression ?

To stop the world from being run by one mega corp ?

originally posted by: ratpunk

I did. It is simple The USA wants full control of the region. Russia knows this. They played a better hand. It is a simple millitary move. With this move our Navy has limited acess. Without this acess the play of full control is still limited.

Full control of the region? If we wanted that we would have taken it during the cold war. On the other hand we do have allies / NATO members who border the black sea and we are within our right to practice freedom of navigation as well as hold joint maneuvers / port calls / maintenance ports in those area. Something Russia does with the Syrian port of Tartus.

The only nation that can legally block Russia's Black Sea access (military) and that comes via the Bosporus Straights / Dardanelles. Secondly I have not seen any statements from DOD or the President talking about controlling that area so if you have something I can read it would be appreciated.

originally posted by: ratpunk
Russia is just protecting from an agressive attack. So how can they be treated as aggressive force if powers to be are trying to eliminate other countries?

Who is attacking Russia? NATO is defensive only and I don't see any other nations threatening Russia with an attack.

originally posted by: ratpunk
Anyone with simple knowledge of whats really going on can see this is an act of war on our behalf. But we are playing like this is not happening. Smoke n mirrors.

What is the act of war - specifically?

originally posted by: ratpunk
I am shocked. We as a country are being sent in to WWIII and blaming other countries for not allowing us to destroy other countries.

Evidence of this?


To tie this into the topic the justifications you made are some of the same used by not only Hitler, but Stalin as well.

originally posted by: ParasuvO


Umm, to stop American aggression ?

What aggression has the US used in reference to Crimea Russia and Ukraine?

originally posted by: ParasuvO
To stop the world from being run by one mega corp ?

How many times have countries asked for US assistance? How many times has the US contributed peacekeepers for the UN

You guys have a bad habit of seeing US action while ignoring the request for US assistance. Take Ukraine as an example - People are focusing only on the US and its possibility of sending lethal aid to Ukraine. The US is NOT the only nation assisting Ukraine, and there are in fact other nations that are supplying military assistance.

Above all else though the actions to support Ukraine came at the request of the Ukraine government.

There was nothing stopping Russia or China from volunteering to act as world cop. China has finally started to use their military in UN peacekeeping operations - their latest mission is Sudan.

Its problematic for people to not like the US because we play global cop while at the same time no other countries with the ability step up to do it.

Any way you could extend your post to include the topic to tie it together?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Xcath, I'dlike to ask you something. Do you really not believe that the end goal of the us is not total global subjugation? Do you not believe Paul Wolfowitz when he said that our aim is to ensure that no power ever arises that can compete with the us militarily and economically? And that we destabilize and overthrow other governments and democracies to ensure this does not happen? Do you not believe that we inflict misery upon the citizens of other nations so we May plunder their wealth and resources? Just as we Do to our own people? Do you really believe that the us takes the actions it does in order to benefit the majority of the human race? And not to fill the coffers of bankers and congressmen and corporations?

a reply to: earthling42

You purposely post links to one or two ignorant people. A entire battalion is a different story such as the Azov Battaltion.

en.wikipedia.org...

I could easily post one or two pictures of rednecks in the USA doing the same thing, but they are not a fighting battalion in a war.