Over 40 Ways Putin’s Russia is Alarmingly Reminiscent of 1930s Nazi Germany

a reply to: DJW001

Exactly

What is the world coming to when a foreign government can send in its army to hold elections while holding the native army hostage in there own military bases

This turns the world up on its head and opens doors millions lost there lives closing

I can understand Russia's anger at Ukraine

It's no different than taking toys back from a friend whose wronged you or dare I say a messy divorce

But that doesn't make it right certainly not in the manner Russia did it

It was illegal but some people just can't see past this US vs Russia thing, i guess most people on here see it as Russia taking land back from the US, Illuminati, NWO, Freemasons etc and ignore the facts

Although it would be nice for Russia's sake to pull its troops back and do it legally, I'd bet after the past year those small numbers who was brave enough to actually go out to the ballots would change there minds while under United Nations peace keeping force and international monitors

IMHO it's the only reason you'd send in an army is to steal by force

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Dont lie on me I am not calling all the Ukrainian people Nazis, I am calling the ones who declare themselves Nazis just what they are, Nazis. I am not calling other ATS members Nazis at all, I am however asking why someone would defend and support Nazi groups or a partially Nazi government in Ukraine which is commiting genocide. How could anyone in thier right mind support racism and genocide?

No-one here is defending Nazis!

You keep repeating your question in a way that implies that are directing at those of us who support the people of Ukraine. The fact that you keep re-posting hate mongering propaganda manufactured by Russia suggests that maybe you are not in your right mind. We all saw it the first time and saw it for what it was. Repeating it over and over again is not going to persuade anyone.

By calling the government that the Ukrainian people elected "Nazi," you are calling the Ukrainian people Nazi!

To white wash it like its not happening is wrong, racists and need to be called out wherever they may be, wether at home or abroad.

And yet, on your other thread, you know, where it was actually on topic, you were completely uninterested in the survival of Nazism in Egypt, Turkey and Latin America, where it is so prevalent that it actually steers the course of events there. No, all you want to do is focus on how the Ukrainians are Nazis.

I am not calling all the Ukrainian citizens Nazis either, I am pointing at the Nazi elements which have been spreading thier ideology in Ukraine and become part of thier government.

And whenever anyone points out that they are not as influential as Russian propaganda makes them out to be, you accuse them of "defending Nazis." There is reason to believe that the spread of that ideology is being facilitated by Russia. In a paer quoted a few pages ago, it was observed that the Russian puppet Yanukovych gave disproportionate media exposure to Svoboda. Russia doesn't care if you are a Nazi, so long as you are Anti-West.

You seem to want to not call them out on the genocide they are commiting against people.

Let's take a quick vote: how many people think Assad is committing genocide by shelling rebel towns?

People just dont get ballistic missles and fire them at civilians for any other reason than genocide.

So you are voting: "Assad is committing genocide?" You are going to be very unpopular with your supporters now.

That your not wanting to have a discussion and talk about the Nazis in Ukraine and the racist ideology they have instead your defending them for some reasons of your own.

I am very happy to discuss Nazis in Ukraine. The problem is no matter how much I tell you how loathsome I find their ideology, you accuse me of defending them!

People want to look the other way when the self proclaimed Nazis in Ukraine themselves have adoped Nazi swastikas do Sieg Hails and are commiting race based genocide, its rather sickening

Whereas you seem to enjoy watching it.

To support Nazis, the KKK or any other racist group is just wrong.

And yet I don't recall you joining me in battling the "Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism" meme that someone tried to start here. Or the Treyvor Martin threads.

Not saying anyone is a Nazi unless they are doing Sieg Hails and calling for a racist genocide, and also call themselves Nazis, then yeah I guess I would just have to agree with them as to what they are claiming to be.

And there you have it, my friend. Swastikas and stiff arm salutes do not make a Nazi. Being motivated by hate does. Why are you posting here again?

a reply to: DJW001

Oh, please give me a break. And overthrow of the legally elected president Yanuckovych was under the Ukrainian constitution? Of course not.
People of Crimea just ceased the opportunity to declare their independency over Ukraine and join Russia. I do not understand what does Kiev has to do with referendum held in Crimea? When we had referendum being held over here in Serbia, considering Kosovo, do you think that referendum was held across my whole country, or just in that particular region?
Double standards.

Not to mention the fact that Crimea was almost always part of Russia, and it became a part of Ukraine just because some president decided so on his own.

You are saying lies again. How can Russia withdraw it's troops from Ukraine, when they've got none? Is Russia fighting over there? I don't think so. Are they sending weapons to help their people? Of course, I would do the same if i had to protect 11 million of my own people. Or, if you think i am lying, please provide me with images/videos that shows the presence of official Russian troops in Ukraine. If you cannot provide me with any, please do not use it as a fact, because it's a lie.

a reply to: Nikola014

Since formofthelord has succeeded in completely hijacking the thread, let's try to establish a few positions vital to understanding what's going on. Nikolai, do believe that Israel has a legal right to exist? Formofthelord, how about you?

originally posted by: Nikola014
Is Russia fighting over there? I don't think so.

Well I'm convinced in light of this new, unimpeachable evidence. Putin isn't in the least expansionist. Yeah.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Nikola014
Is Russia fighting over there? I don't think so.

Well I'm convinced in light of this new, unimpeachable evidence. Putin isn't in the least expansionist. Yeah.

...did I miss something ?

Maybe it`s time for some reality in this thread again...

In all three reports, Secretary of State John Kerry was broadcast saying that the US wanted a diplomatic, peaceful solution, but that the Russians were blocking a peaceful solution by sending tank columns and troops into Ukraine. On my return trip, I heard over NPR Kerry twice more repeating the unsupported claim that Russian tanks and troops are pouring into Ukraine. Obviously, NPR was serving as a propaganda voice that Russia was invading Ukraine.

Think about this for a minute. We have been hearing from high US government officials, including the president himself, for months and months about Russian tank columns and troops entering Ukraine. The Russian government denies this steadfastly, but, of course, we cannot trust the now-demonized Russians. We are not allowed to believe them, because they are positioned as the Enemy, and good patriotic Americans never believe the Enemy.

But how can we help but believe the Russians? If all these Russian tank columns and troops that have allegedly been pouring into Ukraine were real, Washington’s puppet government in Kiev would have fallen sometime last year, and the conflict would be over. Anyone with a brain knows this.

Source

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If all these Russian tank columns and troops that have allegedly been pouring into Ukraine were real, Washington’s puppet government in Kiev would have fallen sometime last year, and the conflict would be over. Anyone with a brain knows this.

Russia doesn't dare risk a direct confrontation with NATO, that is why it has adopted its current strategy. Chaos in the East undermines support for the Kyiv government. Russia wants the pro-West faction to collapse politically, not militarily.

Well, going back to what BAA said above. I certainly wouldn't believe the Independents or the Unionists, they both seem to be not pulling back or abiding by the cease fire. As for the US, EU and Russia they all have their end goals. I wouldn't be surprised if at least both the EU and Russia both want the cease fire to work and both are saying ... "F**k!" Russia and the EU have nothing to gain over a major war.

I found these two threads which may be a better place to discuss the genocide and Nazism going on in Ukraine that have been on ATS.

I dont think that a 40 ways Russia is reminiscent of Nazi Germany is an appropriate thread to discuss the people proclaiming themselves as Nazis in Ukraine and are also commiting genocide.

Also I think this thread saying that Russia and Putin are like Nazi Germany is 100% propaganda.

It seems many dont want to discuss the people who proclaim themselves to be racist Nazis in the Ukraine, who are doing Sieg Hails, putting on Nazi garb, adoption of Nazi swastikas, and are indoctronating the masses with a racist Nazi ideology of genocide.



So I reccomend everyone post on these threads so we can have a decent discussion on the growing Nazism and the race based genocide happening in Ukraine:

Are we witnessing the beginning of ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nazis are in Ukraine
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Russia is aiding. In Crimea. There is no fighting there. In dontetsk and luhansk they have been regularly assaulted by the Ukrainian military. It is obvious that Kiev is the aggressor. I am sure that the Crimean people are eminently grateful that Russia stepped in for them, otherwise they would be in the same situation as the other areas. The war didn't come about because of russian intervention. Without russian intervention it would be more women and children being murdered ( those of Crimea). are any civilians of western ukrain being murdered? I don't think so. This clearly shows who the aggressor is.

a reply to: DJW001

It is not FormOfTheLord's fault that his post was moved over here. Therefore while his post may seem off topic,he is ON topic for his original post. His original post was about if people were for or against Nazi's and why you felt that way.

a reply to: pexx421

If 5000 members of the US 101st went on vacation to Russia with their weapons and equipment how do you think Russia would perceive their presence on Russian soil?

The same holds for Ukraine. Russia is present on their soil and the rebels are an extension of that Russian invasion.

Ukraine has every right to defend itself from Russia.

Just as Russia would if our troops went on vacation with their equipment to Russia.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

yes yes you have constantly bitched about the OP and the discussion yet you have completely failed to address why you think it is propaganda.

Specifically what part of the op do you not agree with and why? Do you have anything that refutes the observations made?

1.Political power consolidated in hands of one authoritarian figure
2.One powerful leader surrounded by a core group of lesser, key cronies
3.Support for The Leader from industrialists / oligarchs
* - Putin consolidates power, hires ousted ministers
* - Putin surrounds himself with yes men
* - The Silent Coup: Putin vs. the Oligarchs

4.Leader is unwilling to cede power/leave office
* - Putin Changes Constitution to Strengthen Grip on Senators
* - Putin not rule out changes in Russian Constitution
* - Russia's consitution is set for change, to Vladimir Putin's advantage
On Putin’s terms
* -
Vladimir Putin says he won't be Russia's president for life - Putin, 62, has led Russia since 2000
* - Putin says he may seek 4th presidential term


5.Leader harbors enormous resentment towards the West
* - Vladimir Putin's Challenge to the West
* - Putin pokes the West with massive news outlet launch, bomber flights

6.Cult of the leader
7.Indoctrinated youth movement devoted to The Leader personally, and is used to attack regime’s “enemies”
* - Russian opposition
* - Stopfake


This is section 1. I will go through each section and adds link to support the observations. Feel free to do this to western governments.

originally posted by: Reinmax
Well, going back to what BAA said above. I certainly wouldn't believe the Independents or the Unionists, they both seem to be not pulling back or abiding by the cease fire. As for the US, EU and Russia they all have their end goals. I wouldn't be surprised if at least both the EU and Russia both want the cease fire to work and both are saying ... "F**k!" Russia and the EU have nothing to gain over a major war.

Than why does Russia continually block Un attempts to do anything on Ukraine. Id say at this point there quite satisfied with the status quo. See Putin needs to keep the image of a civil war going to annex the territory and create his land bridge to crimea. Its not enough for Ukraine to agree for them to be an autonomous region of Ukraine he needs them to break off completely. To do this he needs to scare the hell out of them so they wont join Ukraine. But as parts of the country had learned that was taken back from the Russian rebels that wanst the case. ukraine is trying to stop an invasion pro Russians brought in tanks and equipment that Ukraine wishes it had. Countries like Poland are starting to balance things out eastern Europe is scared to death of their Russian neighbor and begging western Europe for help. Poland is my fear factor here Poland is supplying arms of that i have little doubt but if Putin decides to expand the conflict to Poland Nato enters the fray. Than its anyones guess what happens next since Russia couldnt handle Nato in conventional conflict.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: pexx421

If 5000 members of the US 101st went on vacation to Russia with their weapons and equipment how do you think Russia would perceive their presence on Russian soil?

The same holds for Ukraine. Russia is present on their soil and the rebels are an extension of that Russian invasion.

Ukraine has every right to defend itself from Russia.

Just as Russia would if our troops went on vacation with their equipment to Russia.

The truth is you just go from nonsense to nonsense. How about 25 thousand Russian troops in Crimea, not being on vacation but based there long before the US contrived destabilisation? Perhaps you missed that.

Hey how is the US foreign policy working out? How does it go...# the EU and # Russia. Sounds about right.

I

originally posted by: midicon


The truth is you just go from nonsense to nonsense. How about 25 thousand Russian troops in Crimea, not being on vacation but based there long before the US contrived destabilisation? Perhaps you missed that.

Speaking of nonsense the Russian troops in crimea were present as part of an agreement between Ukraine and Russia. Those troops were restricted in numbers amd type of equipment allowed in their section. ANY changes ot that agreement had to be submitted to Kiev and approved. Russia never did this.

Secondly the agreement prohibits Russian military to have their weapons while off base (unless coming to Crimea or back to Russia). They are prohibited from venturing out into the cities and country side while armed.

The troops with no insignias were Russian military units (as Putin lied about and then finally acknowledged). They entered Ukraine in violation of the treaties and proceeded to occupy Crimea before ANY of the illegal votes occurred. When you send armed forces into another country and occupy territory its an act of war.

its the same thing Russia did in Georgia.
its the same thing Russia did in Moldova.

The destabilization accusation towards the west is a myth and has been debunked many times over now. The destabilization occurred when Russia invaded Ukraine and then supported irregular Russian forces in east/south Ukraine.

If you are going to participate maybe you should learn the topic and research it before trying to make a claim that has no basis in the discussion.

As for the US and EU foreign policy - aside from Ukraine just fine.

Since the ruble is continuing to crash, the world has refused to recognize Crimea as a part of Russia, the UN general assembly has denounced Russian action in Ukraine, Russia has been caught supplying the rebels while also sending in Russian military units, inflation is massive in Russia and they are being sanctioned by nations which extend beyond Europe, followed up by Putins abnormal obsession with trying to prove to the west he is important while at the same time he drives Russia into the ground and starts to dig...

originally posted by: midicon
Hey how is the US foreign policy working out? How does it go...# the EU and # Russia. Sounds about right.

I think the "How's your foreign policy working out" question should be directed at Putin. He might find some time to answer you after he offers yet more excuses on his involvement in Ukraine.

originally posted by: midicon How does it go...# the EU and # Russia. Sounds about right.

The point you missed is even after the US took that approach we are still able to work with our European allies and other nations around the globe. While you and Putin do not understand democracy, it allows nations to disagree with each other. Nations will always have differing views on any number of topics.

In this case the Ukraine people told Russia, to use your terminology, to "# off". Instead of discussing the issues with Ukraine Russia just invaded them.


Putins running out of people to blame for his failures. I would imagine we will see more and more advisors of Putin be dismissed in addition to ministers in some of their economic areas.

You up to speed now?

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: midicon


The truth is you just go from nonsense to nonsense. How about 25 thousand Russian troops in Crimea, not being on vacation but based there long before the US contrived destabilisation? Perhaps you missed that.

Speaking of nonsense the Russian troops in crimea were present as part of an agreement between Ukraine and Russia. Those troops were restricted in numbers amd type of equipment allowed in their section. ANY changes ot that agreement had to be submitted to Kiev and approved. Russia never did this.

Secondly the agreement prohibits Russian military to have their weapons while off base (unless coming to Crimea or back to Russia). They are prohibited from venturing out into the cities and country side while armed.

The troops with no insignias were Russian military units (as Putin lied about and then finally acknowledged). They entered Ukraine in violation of the treaties and proceeded to occupy Crimea before ANY of the illegal votes occurred. When you send armed forces into another country and occupy territory its an act of war.

its the same thing Russia did in Georgia.
its the same thing Russia did in Moldova.

The destabilization accusation towards the west is a myth and has been debunked many times over now. The destabilization occurred when Russia invaded Ukraine and then supported irregular Russian forces in east/south Ukraine.

If you are going to participate maybe you should learn the topic and research it before trying to make a claim that has no basis in the discussion.

As for the US and EU foreign policy - aside from Ukraine just fine.

Since the ruble is continuing to crash, the world has refused to recognize Crimea as a part of Russia, the UN general assembly has denounced Russian action in Ukraine, Russia has been caught supplying the rebels while also sending in Russian military units, inflation is massive in Russia and they are being sanctioned by nations which extend beyond Europe, followed up by Putins abnormal obsession with trying to prove to the west he is important while at the same time he drives Russia into the ground and starts to dig...

originally posted by: midicon
Hey how is the US foreign policy working out? How does it go...# the EU and # Russia. Sounds about right.

I think the "How's your foreign policy working out" question should be directed at Putin. He might find some time to answer you after he offers yet more excuses on his involvement in Ukraine.

originally posted by: midicon How does it go...# the EU and # Russia. Sounds about right.

The point you missed is even after the US took that approach we are still able to work with our European allies and other nations around the globe. While you and Putin do not understand democracy, it allows nations to disagree with each other. Nations will always have differing views on any number of topics.

In this case the Ukraine people told Russia, to use your terminology, to "# off". Instead of discussing the issues with Ukraine Russia just invaded them.


Putins running out of people to blame for his failures. I would imagine we will see more and more advisors of Putin be dismissed in addition to ministers in some of their economic areas.

You up to speed now?

I agree with part of what you said. Id say its part ego on Putins behalf but the biggest part is greed. He desires money and power and will do anything to keep it. If it means changing the Russian constitution he changes it. If it means locking up challengers he does it.In the case of Ukraine i believe this again was him trying to protect himself. If Ukraine turned to a democracy developed more freedoms its just a matter of time for these ideals to cross the border. Now hes creating a buffer zone and he can say not all Ukrainians want the lifestyle of the EU. This is a huge threat for Putin he would not remain in power if Russians shifted towards the EU wanting their economy.

Now as far as his failures your right but they are long term failures he believes he can hide from the Russian people. He will tell them its the evil Americans who destroyed Russia but were a strong people and we will get through this together all the while he pockets billions. He may be right his hes not stupid by any means but hes walking a razor's edge, And im thinking hes going to lose control were starting to see cracks in his armor. Started with the mothers of those Russians calling attention to their sons dying in Ukraine. Now we have an anti Putin rally on march 1st in Moscow. There are influential Russians who are now openly discussing his policies on Ukraine there being branded as traitors but still speaking out. And we are starting to see his advisors making excuses as well you can only hang with the far right for so long before it comes back to bite you.

In any political system there are always more moderates.

It is understandable that Poland is scared, since it is known that many of the right sector/svoboda thugs who initiated the coup and ensuing massacre of the people were trained in Poland. As to the cult of the leader bit....Putin may be a popular leader, but hardly has cult status. To compare, Hitler was world lauded leading up to the war, and was, as we all know, Time man of the year. Putin, on the other hand, has been demonized from the first. Hardly much similarity there. I am sure he is ambitious, and most likely sociopathic, as all of our leaders are, but I must say that I haven't seen him running around the globe slaughtering millions and leaving nations in ashes the way we have. To state that he is hell bent on expansion while protesting the innocence of our own murderous assaults on all corners of the world is like the hippo raging at the hedgehog for being glutinous.