Ceasefire in Ukraine Begins...

a reply to: crazyewok

Sorry for the delay in response. (Had to go to work)

Well, I hope you're right, but if Russia annexes the whole of Ukraine, or even up to Kiev I can't imagine it's neighbor/s being too happy about it. (Ie Poland) They will arm themselves to the teeth and the west will support them. Putin won't like that, and as usual claim it as a threat to Russia, increasing tensions again. It's a whole domino effect.

PS - Thanks everyone for all the updates, it looks like this ceasefire may be on the verge of ending, if it hasn't already...

a reply to: Wookiep

Good it seems Putin and NATO have finally figured out this is a very dangerous game. Both sides have military industrial complexes that need money to survive and why not pick easier targets like the one's in the middle east.


The scary question is what happens when we run out of enemies externally.....Hmm makes you think.

a reply to: earthling42

ukrainians started the maidan protests? say what?
who gave them money so they can sit on their asses for months?
how many ukrainians were there?

and finally, how many ukrainians support the current folks in kiev?

it wasn't just a coup. it was a staged operation by the CIA. the amount of money that US has thrown at ukraine to make it happen is largely public knowledge, so do your research, cut the crap and don't derail this thread any further.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster
and finally, how many ukrainians support the current folks in kiev?

Ukrainian Parliamentary election

Ukrainian Presidential election

There you are. Election monitors were satisfied that they were free and fair.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi

yeah, that says that less than 10 million of more than 30 millions able to vote voted for poroshenko, so less than 1/3 of ukraine. of course, one can blame those that didn't vote, but that's only half of the problem with such statistics.

the other half is, ask those that did vote for poroshenko, if they would do so today. same for all the supporters of the people in charge there in general.

because all those ukrainians fleeing from their country to avoid having to fight in the army, have to be non-voters, right?

a reply to: jedi_hamster

Why don't you take it up with the Ukrainian Electoral Commission if you are dissatisfied?

There was an election and Poroshenko got nearly 55% of the vote on a turn-out of 60%. The people who did not bother to vote, didn't. However, it's usual to count those that did not vote and extrapolate result proportionately.

Difficult, I know, but that's democracy for you.

Regards

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: jedi_hamster

Why don't you take it up with the Ukrainian Electoral Commission if you are dissatisfied?

There was an election and Poroshenko got nearly 55% of the vote on a turn-out of 60%. The people who did not bother to vote, didn't. However, it's usual to count those that did not vote and extrapolate result proportionately.

Difficult, I know, but that's democracy for you.

Regards

That was 60% of the people minus the 7 million or so from the donbass too. Not as high as you are making out.

a reply to: sosobad

also, those were the results ON THE ELECTION DAY.
today it would be very, very different.

originally posted by: sosobad
That was 60% of the people minus the 7 million or so from the donbass too. Not as high as you are making out.

I'm not making it out. It's on the link. It's a fact. Besides, the voting in the Dombass region was not possible as the separatists has threatened violence. It would have been nice if everyone in Ukraine had been able to vote - including Crimea! It's quite a tricky one, but like I say, this is the way of voting, so that's life.

Who knows what the vote would be today, or in three or four years time? The world will be different tomorrow. Let's hope the next time there's a vote the guns are silent, eh?

Regards

a reply to: paraphi

Let's hope the next time there's a vote the guns are silent, eh?

I can wholeheartedly agree with that.

DPR is willing to let the trapped Debaltseve UAF units go if they leave their weapons, they should just take it if there are lots of foreign fighter Kiev can safe its face.

Militia ready to provide corridor for encircled Ukrainian forces in Debaltseve — DPR envoy

The Ukrainian forces are trying to break through the encirclement near Debaltseve from the outer side

MOSCOW, February 16. /TASS/. The self-defense forces of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) are ready to open a "green corridor" for Ukrainian forces out of the encirclement in Debaltseve, DPR envoy in the Contact Group Denis Pushilin said on Monday.

"For the Ukrainian forces to exit, we are ready to provide a ‘green corridor’, and DPR head Alexander Zakharchenko announced it yesterday. The corridor will be opened if [Ukrainian] forces exit without weapons or military equipment," the Donetsk News Agency quoted Pushilin as saying.

Source

To be honest, I would wish to know how many of the 8000 trapped troops are foreigners, but with the rest of front having quiet down, I would even want more the fighting to stop.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
To be honest, I would wish to know how many of the 8000 trapped troops are foreigners, but with the rest of front having quiet down, I would even want more the fighting to stop.

I too am curious how many Russian nationals are embedded with the Ukrainian forces. Probably not many, but you never know in messy situations such as this.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi

I would think there are a couple of thousand who are there out of free will. They see it as an attack on their border and on their Brothers and Sisters.

From what I have read the Separatists are about 20/25k, but with more who have been trained and coming in soon.

The Eastern Ukraine has about 5.5 million residents, and from the battle videos (the ones where they stumble up accidentally on Separatist fighters and ask them who they are) they are fighting against locals predominantly.

And from the beginning on UAF has been encircled lots of times and abandoned tanks, APCs, etc.(those Russian military hardware can be easily fixed in the field or in a factory) which have been captured by them. Eastern Ukraine is the industrial area of the Ukraine and the Ukraine had a "decent" defence industry. So besides all the ammo depots they captured, I think most of the military hardware is actual form inside the Ukraine.

UAF did purge its army when the fighting broke out which left them without capable field commanders and a lack of motivated fighters.

We have been let to believe they had all kinds of glories victories in the period May/up to half Aug, but in reality they weren`t even able to take Luhansk and Dontesk in July anymore, they only did a few weak attempts back then.

After that they resorted to sending in just conscripts and the leaders stayed in the back, they even had to trick some of them to go in after they refused to go in several times.

This is good news...

"No resources left for offensive operations"--Poroshenko Advisor Biryukov

“Nothing left for offensive operations, must dig in instead”—Poroshenko’s Advisor Biryukov

Source

We can only hope US ins`t going to send in weapons.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sounds like a plea for help... "Ahem, uh, we're out of weapons & ammo!" *nudge nudge*

a reply to: Wookiep

Yes...

Leading Ukrainian Nazi Will Visit Washington Next Week Seeking Weapons

Good news, the Debaltsevo pocket is collapsing.

With a great deal of the fighter capable forces and equipment in the pocket, and the rest of the front seemingly have quieting down there might be some rest coming to citizens the upcoming time.

Apart from that, the mothers of Ukrainian soldiers surrounded in Debaltsevo say that troops there received orders to abandon their defensive positions and equipment and attempt to exit the encirclement in small groups. They say command and control has been completely lost, which means the soldiers are on their own.

Source

Ukrainian General Staff Confirms Debaltsevo Force Collapse

Earlier today the Russian Spring reported that, according to the information from the relatives of UAF troops located in the vicinity of Debaltsevo, the chain of command has completely broken down and the troops were issued orders to break out of the cauldron on their own. However, several Ukrainian media immediately denied the reports, claiming it was panic-mongering.

However, only an hour ago the acting spokesperson for the Ukrainian General Staff Vladislav Seleznev confirmed this information during a live interview on the TV channel 112, saying that DPR units were assaulting the UAF base-camp at Debaltsevo, and that the headquarters for all UAF forces there has been destroyed.

Source

Ukrainian troops surrender by the hundreds

"Ukrainian punitive troops are surrendering in large numbers. Journalists have filmed the surrender of one of the punitive units in the Debaltsevo cauldron. More than 70 men laid down their arms to save their lives and surrendered to LPR People’s Militia.

Video in the Link

I copy my post from other thread in here, it`s some added background information...

There are some who are surrendering and some who keep on fighting...they all should surrender because that situation is hopeless, but there are rumours that there are still lots of mercenaries.

The number of troops over there are at least 5000, but I also have heard there 8000 or maybe 9000.

And of troops there might be about 1500/2500 support troops and more as half of the encircled troops being mercenaries (but these numbers are a bit speculative)...the mercenaries might be the ones who don`t want to give up.

So while it`s collapsing, the fight might not still be over for some time when there are mercenaries who may want to fight to the bitter end...it will depend on how much of the rumour about there being lots of mercenaries over there is being true, and if so, if they just surrender or not.

"Our HQ has fled, we are facing annihilation"--Junta battalion commander's frantic call on live TV

Ukrainian troops are holding defense in strongpoints in the vicinity of Debaltsevo. There is street fighting in the city against Russian soldiers [sic] and Kadyrovites [sic].

This is what “Gross,” the deputy commander of the 25th Kievan Rus battalion, which is located near Debaltsevo, said during a phone call broadcast live by the TV news channel 24.

Source

Remember this is Ukrainian TV, so it might well not be Russian soldiers.

It will be soon over according DPR Defense Minister...

[eng subs] DPR Defense Minister -- 80% of Debaltesvo are controlled by the NAF