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Ex-CIA chief admits to UFO disinformation

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posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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originally posted by: ArJunaBug
Having spent an enormous amount of energy trying to convince others of what I knew was real since seeing my first up close UFO 40 years ago and much research and other close contacts since, I have come to the conclusion that so-called skeptics are one of two things; they are either paid disinformation agents or intellectually challenged.

No one with a right mind can investigate the massive body of evidence and come away as a skeptic.

Trying to change the minds of these people is a useless endeavor; their minds are made up and they will never take the evidence into account.

I think that you might want to put things into better perspective. There is no way to translate personal experiences into reality for someone that hasn't experienced exactly what you have experienced. Its nothing personal but nobody is obligated to believe anything or take anything at face value. Calling people, that exercise their right to be skeptical, disinfo agents or intellectually challenged doesn't help your case.




posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: ArJunaBug
I have come to the conclusion that so-called skeptics are one of two things; they are either paid disinformation agents or intellectually challenged.


I guess that depends on how you're defining skeptic. I've seen UFOs on four occasions. I've never been able to find a rational explanation for what I saw. I also had some very strange synchronicity that doesn't fit my paradigm in connection with UFOs. I'm not a "paid disinformation agent" (you'll have to take my word on that.)

What I didn't see were any "aliens" or occupants of any kind. What I have concluded after years of looking into it is that the reports of visitation by multiple alien races , the MJ-12 style conspiracy theories, the myriad youtube videos and on and on are almost entirely the product of fantasy and outright deception. Having perceived that I saw something that I can't explain that makes me very angry. Perhaps that clouds my ability to look at things rationally at this point.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for the excellent contribution to the thread, MM. I have to run, but will be back later to look at the link you provided and address some of your points. But just briefly -

UFO's exist, it is silly to debate that. I agree there is less evidence for the ET connection. But it is still there. I guess it was the "out of this world" performance characteristics of the earlier sightings which, after eliminating all other possibilities, left me with ET's, serious, what else could it be? But this is just my opinion. The only other explanation would be some kind of secret human society on earth - but that begs the question why would a secret human society being flying around in the open in daylight with little regard for stealth?

Some of the best UFO cases exemplify this. Like the Kenneth Arnold sighting. I'm sure you're familiar with this one, we were barely into the jet age in 1947, and we have an excellent credible witness reporting flying objects with performance not even close to anything on earth. Again, given that any secret human society would want to remain secret, what other explanation do you have for this sighting? I hope I don't sound rude MM, because you discuss these issues with class, but really, what other explanations are there for this sighting?





edit on 15-2-2015 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

Hello PX,

I've got a copy of the NY Times article (from the NYT) and can vouch for its existence. As usual, there are very few facts ATSers can all agree on. Even when we agree on a fact, there's no saying how others interpret it. Hillenkoetter might have said what he said, but people will say he was lying, stupid, a shill or a dumb believer. It gets tired.

As it stands, we can't say for sure that Hillenkoetter actually said this. It was reported by Donald Keyhoe which makes the statement hearsay. Unlike others, I'm happy to take Keyhoe's report at face value. He tended to be accurate enough in the details and then got carried away with his speculations.

Hillenkoetter was concerned by the reports of UFOs and became an early board member of NICAP after retiring from the Navy. He was quoted in NICAP's 'The UFO Evidence' saying:


"They wouldn't be maneuvering accidentally. I think they are under intelligent guidance from all things seen."
link

People are increasingly post-modern with regards to the early UFO years. It's all splitting hairs and looking back at the past through modern filters. Back in the '40s and '50s, the reports were taken seriously by some. Hillenkoetter was one of them and there were others too. Modern audiences can't believe that folk back then saw anything really unusual - misperceptions all the way down.

From the perspective of Hillenkoetter, he would have had access to CIA UFO sightings reports, he would have spoken to lesser-known men like H.Marshall Chadwell (CIA) who also took some of the reports seriously at the time. He would have heard direct reports from Naval officers whom he trusted and he would have been party to discussions at the highest levels of National Security.

It's hard for many to get a sense of the times. Hillenkoetter's suspicions about 'intelligent' craft were reasonably founded upon the information he had available at the time.


Thank you for that great background on Hillenkoetter, it gives some context to his statement.

I also though about whether he actually made those remarks. I came to the conclusion that if they were substantially different from what he said or intended, he would have demanded a public apology from the NY Times, or retraction or something along those lines. Since nothing of that sort ever happened, it is further evidence he made those remarks in the OP.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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I have always been interested in UFOs and always wanted to see one. While attending school in Cincinnati, in the mid 1960's, I met a fellow that was "expert" on the subject of UFOs. IIRC, his name was Stringfield but I'm not sure. There was around 20 students in attendance with hundreds of questions. Unfortunately, I was left even more curious without clear answers.

Who is MJ12 and where are they located? Are they government or academic? Who are the members?



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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UFO's do exist...some are made right here on earth...and kept (supposedly secret) by TPTB; every now and then they take them out for a test drive; and if they are seen...promote the idea that they are UFO's from another planet.

Then...there are UFO"s that are from somewhere else other than Earth...I think they arrive every now and then to take a peak at us...I think perhaps some of them want to help...I think perhaps others don"t.

I personally don't need the government to tell me they are real or not real. I have seen UFO's a few times during my life.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: buddah6

Who is MJ12 and where are they located? Are they government or academic? Who are the members?


It's short for Majestic 12. You can find it all over the internet.

It's a grand conspiracy theory about a supposed group of top officials who were put together during the Truman (Eisenhower?) administration to deal with aliens from crashed saucers, etc.

It's been a long time since I looked into it but my conclusion at the time was that it was a hoax. There are lots of people on ATS who know more about it than me.
edit on 15-2-2015 by DelMarvel because: spelling as always.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

When I said I didn't exactly agree with you I also meant I am not that far away from agreeing with you on a lot of points as well. Because UFOs are a fact (by the strict definition of the term - it doesn't actually mean alien spacecraft).

The example I have given in the video is the Hessdalen lights in Norway which have been estimated, at times, to be travelling at 30,000kmh. Nobody knows what causes these strange lights and they are seen fairly regularly. It is highly possible that they are some kind of natural phenomenon that we have yet to understand. So we shouldn't always jump to the "it was aliens conclusion". However it's also important not to rule that consideration out either until the data proves otherwise. Many people find this difficult because of their preconceived notions about the subject.

But if we keep plugging away you never know what we may turn up.

Snapshot of the Hessdalen lights in Norway below




posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I absolutely can prove my great great great grandfather existed, on both sides of my family...



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I absolutely can prove my great great great grandfather existed, on both sides of my family...


I usually don't speak in absolutes but I am pretty sure that there has never been one person ever that didn't have at least one great great great grandfather.



posted on Feb, 15 2015 @ 09:29 PM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I don't deny the possibility that ET piloted craft may have visited the planet but in the years I've been into this subject I've come to realise (reluctantly) that there's no evidence to support that possibility and the likelihood is that absence of evidence is evidence of absence in regard to ET.

In regard to incredible performance characteristics , again testimony is all I'm aware of to back up those claims and to be honest that is no longer enough for me .
I wish I was still a believer , it was much more fun , but until some real evidence turns up those days are over.




I completely agree. I am exactly the same way. I've seen all I can see and at this point I really need hard physical evidence. Even if the Government admitted it I might think it was kind of ploy. I'd really have to see Aliens literally land somewhere on live TV to actually believe it these days.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 07:29 AM
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originally posted by: aynock
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE



Here we have an Ex-CIA chief and navy admiral saying the government has engaged in a disinfo campaign with UFO's


indeed - maybe they've managed to convince a lot of people that ufos are alien space craft



By ridiculing anyone who suggests it? Hmmm, maybe not then.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: aynock
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE



Here we have an Ex-CIA chief and navy admiral saying the government has engaged in a disinfo campaign with UFO's


indeed - maybe they've managed to convince a lot of people that ufos are alien space craft



By ridiculing anyone who suggests it? Hmmm, maybe not then.


Obviously the fear of ridicule hasn't prevented that from becoming the default assumption.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 08:50 AM
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a reply to: DelMarvel

I have googled MJ-12. I understand that it was set up by Truman in the late 1940's to investigate UFO sightings. My problem stems from references to MJ-12 in the present sense by folks here on ATS. Does it still exist? Who do they report to? Who's in charge? What do they do officially?



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 08:50 AM
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a reply to: jamespond



By ridiculing anyone who suggests it?


anyone who suggests it is a fact that extraterrestrials are visiting us without providing strong evidence is opening themselves up to ridicule imo - not that i would ever take that approach myself

one possible example is the case of bob lazar - here's an account of an interview with him by jacques valle:




I was frankly intrigued by Robert Lazar; by his sincerity, his straightforwardness, and his refreshing way of thinking seriously about our questions before giving an answer. This ability is not shared by most of the people I interviewed for this book. They tended to have all the answers, even before questions were asked! When it came to physics, they used technical terms improperly, getting mass confused with weight and speed with acceleration. Many of them did not even know the difference between the galaxy and the solar system, the speed of light and the speed of sound. Not so with Lazar. He was precise in his technical language. And this fact made his story even more curious.

He had two degrees in physics, he said, and he had worked at Cal Tech. He had specialized in building alpha particle detectors, which he was still selling to the Los Alamos National Laboratory. One day, in December 1987, he had been approached for a job under Naval Intelligence. He was interviewed at a facility of EG&G, a defense contractor, although there is no implication that the company is involved with the project itself.

From then on, Lazar told me, he would be called on an irregular basis and he would report to a certain place where he would be picked up by a bus that had blackened windows. The bus drove him to a facility in the desert where a series of slanted hangars were cut into the mountain. Inside these hangars were nine solid, pewter-colored flying saucers. "Did you ever watch them fly?" I asked Lazar. "Once, from a hundred to two hundred feet away. The underside was glowing blue, but otherwise there was no ionization around it."

"What kind of work were you doing?" "We were back-engineering the propulsion system. They gave me briefings on that. A lot of it didn't make sense." "What do you mean?" "Well, for one thing, there was no theoretical work at the facility. And much of the physical research was inept. They told us that a team had cut up one of the reactors by sawing it off in two. When they tried to run it, the thing exploded in their faces. That took place in May 1987, before they expelled the Russians from the project." Indeed, that was absurd. No one in his right sense would have done this; a project manager would have stopped it. Lazar agreed: it did not make sense.

Nor did his own presence there make sense. He said: "I'm no research physicist. If those were really alien disks, they should have had the best scientists in the country working on them. Instead they gave us these briefings and just told us to try anything we liked. Nothing was written down." "What did you have in the lab, on your workbench?" "I had a digital voltmeter," said Lazar. "That's all?" exclaimed one of my friends. "I also had an oscilloscope. That's it." Where were the X-ray inspection systems, the multichannel analyzers,the signal generators that are the standard tools of the high-tech trade? Again we were hitting a wall of absurdity. Robert Lazar's experience had been pure theatre.

"When did you stop working there?" I asked him. "In May 1988. Wait, maybe that was May 1989." "Which one was it?" "I don't remember. I'm confused about that." The confusion was too gross to be accounted for by simple distraction. "Do you ever have the impression that your memory of these events is worse than could be expected?" "My memory may have been tampered with," he said rather sadly. "What do you mean?" "There was a sort of infirmary in the back of that facility. They gave me all kinds of tests there." "Can you describe these tests?" "Well, for one thing, they took an awful lot of blood from me. They said it was necessary because of the things I was working on." "What else?" "They made me drink a glassful of a yellow liquid that smelled like pine. And it seems that they hypnotized me several times, I never found out why." "How many doctors were there?" "They were women. A female doctor and a nurse." "Who paid you?" "Naval Intelligence." "Why did you stop?" "I didn't feel good about the project."

"What form did the briefing papers take?" "They were thin booklets, letter-size pages. There were over two hundred of them." "What kind of document control system was used?" "There was no document number on them, if that's what you mean." "What agency issued them?" "There was no indication of origin. It was straight text, take it or leave it." "What classification level?" "There was no secret stamp on it." "Were any of the pages marked with words like Confidential, or Noforn?" "Nothing."


from 'revelations'

i get the impression they employ different tactics with different groups

'ridicule' maybe, in relation to the general public, but there's evidence that intelligence operatives are also feeding stories into ufology, stories that 'support' the alien believers, maybe in an attempt to 'control the narrative' for whatever reason

imo, it's a factor that shouldn't be ignored - if you're interested in getting to the truth
edit on 16-2-2015 by aynock because: filled out



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 08:52 AM
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Be careful what u ask for.

If an ongoing experiment was happening, and all the specimens escaped, what would happen? Most likely, they all be destroyed and they'd start over.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: zeeon

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I don't deny the possibility that ET piloted craft may have visited the planet but in the years I've been into this subject I've come to realise (reluctantly) that there's no evidence to support that possibility and the likelihood is that absence of evidence is evidence of absence in regard to ET.

In regard to incredible performance characteristics , again testimony is all I'm aware of to back up those claims and to be honest that is no longer enough for me .
I wish I was still a believer , it was much more fun , but until some real evidence turns up those days are over.




I completely agree. I am exactly the same way. I've seen all I can see and at this point I really need hard physical evidence. Even if the Government admitted it I might think it was kind of ploy. I'd really have to see Aliens literally land somewhere on live TV to actually believe it these days.


Agreed. Sadly UFO believers keep muddying the water and pushing this topic further and further into ridicule by posting every single video they find as proof...whether its clearly cgi or just an out of focus light in the sky. It just makes them look more and more kooky.

There was a post the other day of "an array of lights in the sky."..a huge object supposedly. There was absolutely no way in the slightest if telling what it was...it could have been a close up of a lamp for all we know, yet the usual suspects where in there fawning over the video. It would have be funny if it wasn't so sad.

The fact is there are NO good alien ufo videos. Not one. If there was, everyone would know about it. It's fun to live in the dream world, but sometimes you have to snap out of it.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014


The fact is there are NO good alien ufo videos. Not one. If there was, everyone would know about it.

Maybe the good ones get abducted.



posted on Feb, 16 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: 3danimator2014


The fact is there are NO good alien ufo videos. Not one. If there was, everyone would know about it.

Maybe the good ones get abducted.


Maybe...the way i see it. If aliens were smart enough to fly across the universe to us, they would be smart enough to turn the bright lights OFF on the outside of their crafts. Makes no sense for them to be flying around giant beacons if they want to stay undercover..

I mean, humans have stealth planes and helis. Why do alien visitor believers think that aliens are stupid?



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