Skeletal Remains, Locked in 6,000 Year Long Embrace, Discovered in Greek Cave

Just in time for Valentine's Day is the report of this discovery at one of the Diros caves, Alepotrypa ("Fox hole"), in southern Greece. Archaeologists discovered the skeletal remains of a paleolithic man and woman in a "spooning" embrace in 2014. The Greek Ministry of Culture released the results of dating and DNA analysis on Thursday.

From Discovery News:

The skeletons were dated to 3800 B.C. and DNA analysis confirmed the remains belong to a man and a woman.

“Double burials in embrace are extremely rare,” the ministry said. “The skeletons of Diros represent one of the oldest, if not the oldest, found to this date,” it added.

Discovered in 1958, the Alepotrypa Cave was used between 6000 and 3200 B.C. and served as both a settlement and a cemetery.

Excavations in recent years have yielded the remains of adults, children and even embryos.

The archaeologists also discovered a 13-foot wide crypt, paved with a unique pebble floor. The burial contained dozens of skeletons, along with pottery, beads and a dagger.

Researchers have not established a cause of death for the pair. Another article from the AP states the couple was estimated to be in their 20's. Am I the only one who finds this simultaneously macabre and heart-warming?

a reply to: theantediluvian

Awww...

I mean, that's awful.

Awww...

a reply to: theantediluvian

Is that a boner I see?

Sorry... sorry... gawds what's wrong with me tonight?

This is akin to the skeletons found holding hands last week ... love and death.

But really, it makes one wonder at the scene when they were buried... unless he grabbed her post mortem in the grave?

a reply to: theantediluvian
Thanks for posting that, I wonder the DNA will show if it is sequenced.
I wonder if the burial reflects the traditions known to the area.

Reminds me of Darkest Hour's "The Human Romance" cover art.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Well that's depressing.

a reply to: theantediluvian

They were probably buried alive.

Very interesting, i'm waiting for more details.

Somehow similar recent thread: 700-year-old skeletons found holding hands

probably sacrificial, i would want to hold someone too as i get clubbed as an offering:-

I prefer to think more to the loving side..

Living in reality all the time is to bloody depressing.

Buried alive together or suicided together?
The back story that we'll never know.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Just want to know, why do they think the skeletons are 6 000 years old?

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion
a reply to: theantediluvian

Just want to know, why do they think the skeletons are 6 000 years old?

5,800 years-old to be exact. Carbon-14 dating according to the press release from the Greek Ministry of Culture.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Sorry, I cant read Greek.

But that brings in a big problem. Many users on ATS has stated that you can NOT date human remains with Carbon-14 dating. Many users has already shown the errors of using Carbon-14 dating on human remains. The majority has said that Carbon-14 dating is inaccurate, and is not used to date human remains.

So there is 2 options, either all the ATS users are wrong, and/or lying, or, the archaeologists that worked with the remains did not know what they were doing, meaning that the skeletal remains are not that old.

It they dated the rocks next to the grave, then that proves absolutely nothing. The rocks were there long before those two people were even born.

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion
a reply to: theantediluvian

Sorry, I cant read Greek.

Its a good tging the link was to an english language Discovery article then. Did you bother clicking the link?

But that brings in a big problem. Many users on ATS has stated that you can NOT date human remains with Carbon-14 dating. Many users has already shown the errors of using Carbon-14 dating on human remains. The majority has said that Carbon-14 dating is inaccurate, and is not used to date human remains.

Can you post a link to this poll demonstrating how the majority of ATS users believe 14c dating is inaccurate and can not be used on human remains? What errors have they shown? You do realize theres not going to be very many accredited researchers or scientists who actually support thst ludicrous notion dont you?

So there is 2 options, either all the ATS users are wrong, and/or lying, or, the archaeologists that worked with the remains did not know what they were doing, meaning that the skeletal remains are not that old.

Or a third one is thst You are misunderstanding or misrepresenting something you think you remember seeing.
Why dont you go do some research on 14c dating and what its limitations actually are.

It they dated the rocks next to the grave, then that proves absolutely nothing. The rocks were there long before those two people were even born.

Whike the article focused on the 14c attributed date and the genetic data, thst doesnt mean that 14c alone was used to date the site. There are other artifcats associated with the burial thst can be dated based on metalurgy and style and the geological aspects of the find will also give you a timeframe as well. If everything seems to agree on the attributed date then the onus is upon you to demonstrate why that date is wrong. Shouting from tge towers thst a majority of ATS users disagree with 14c dating so it cant be true isnt even close to that prerequisite demomstration necessary.

a reply to: peter vlar

Its a good tging the link was to an english language Discovery article then. Did you bother clicking the link?

Why else should I say "Sorry, I cant read Greek."
This is the page I find when following the link you provided. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that is Greek, right?




Maybe I may be mistaken about the use of C-14 dating, that I will admit, but there has been many errors admitted on ATS, and the rest of the internet.


Also

Not once in the article was any dating method mentioned.

A 6,000-year-old romance has been uncovered in a Greek cave as archaeologists unearthed the skeletons of an undisturbed Neolithic couple locked in an embrace.

There is no mention of how they came to that date.

The skeletons were dated to 3800 B.C. and DNA analysis confirmed the remains belong to a man and a woman.

They do not mention the dating method used.

the Alepotrypa Cave was used between 6000 and 3200 B.C.

Again, no mention of how they came to those dates.

Around 3200 B.C.,

How do they get this date, because there is again, no mention of any data or proof for those dates.

Now the Greek link you gave me, mentions that the cave was dated with C-14 as 3800 BC, and only once is this mentioned. But this is actually dating the cave, meaning dating rocks, not the actual skeletons.

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion
a reply to: peter vlar

Its a good tging the link was to an english language Discovery article then. Did you bother clicking the link?

Why else should I say "Sorry, I cant read Greek."
This is the page I find when following the link you provided. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that is Greek, right?

Fair enough. The link takes me to Discovery News in English so I don't know why you're getting it in Greek.

Maybe I may be mistaken about the use of C-14 dating, that I will admit, but there has been many errors admitted on ATS, and the rest of the internet.

Errors may have been claimed on ATS but none have been admitted. There's a difference between someone surfing the web making a statement or claim and a statement of that nature coming from a trained professional working in those fields.

Also

Not once in the article was any dating method mentioned.

A 6,000-year-old romance has been uncovered in a Greek cave as archaeologists unearthed the skeletons of an undisturbed Neolithic couple locked in an embrace.

There is no mention of how they came to that date.

The skeletons were dated to 3800 B.C. and DNA analysis confirmed the remains belong to a man and a woman.

They do not mention the dating method used.

the Alepotrypa Cave was used between 6000 and 3200 B.C.

Again, no mention of how they came to those dates.

Around 3200 B.C.,

How do they get this date, because there is again, no mention of any data or proof for those dates.

Except in the Discovery News article the link takes me to actually DOES tell you that radiocarbon testing was done in the third paragraph.

Although the pair was originally found in 2014 by a team of archaeologists and speleologists led by George Papathanassopoulos, the Greek Ministry of Culture announced the results of DNA and radio carbon tests on Thursday, just in time for Valentine’s Day.

Now the Greek link you gave me, mentions that the cave was dated with C-14 as 3800 BC, and only once is this mentioned. But this is actually dating the cave, meaning dating rocks, not the actual skeletons.

Well I didn't give you any links let alone a Greek one so I can't comment in what you read there except to say that 14c is used on organics only so there's no way it was used to test the cave, rocks or soil within the cave. The only thing they were testing w 14c will be the remains.