They can't disclose what they don't know

a reply to: andre18

Alien abduction is an area that puzzles the hell out of me. I accept that it has and does occur. It is reasonable to assume that should a species find us, they would be curious about our biology and intelligence. Afterall, going by what we do when we find an unknown animal, fish or plant, we- document the find, to advertise it's discovery, photograph it to display a focal point of reference, obtain a specimen for analysis- dissection and take all that we have learned and apply it while we study it more indepth- both outside of and whilst it is in it's natural enviroment.

In alien abduction, from what I understand on the subject, people are being "sampled"- blood, seamen, eggs, skin grafts (hair?) is being taken. What I can not full understand, is the same scenario is being repeated over, over and over again- for at least 54 years (The Hills).
These beings, capable of travelling vast distance- at minimum our own System, at most inter-Galactic, perform the near-same proceedure over and over again? The same proceedure? Also, throw removal of our own first trimester foetuses, and alien impregnation into this, over and over too, gives one a sense that even though they can develop some fearsome propulsion and some mind-boggling medical tech- mind wiping/ false memory- they are not very medically learned/ quick at understanding medical sample? As I said, they are just doing the same thing over and over- for 50-odd years. They seem to be unable to grasp the concept of pain? inflicting pain?- from accounts, they "reassure everything will be ok" and "nothing to worry about" so they can grasp distress and anxiety- yet can not grasp the "pain" of their subject. Even if one supposes they do not care; pain can kill, undue stress and anxiety can cause heart attacks etc.

So too- this mind wiping/ false memory- seems to be technically/ medically unreliable. They must know- but they have not perfected it, even from first arriving? .

Abduction is, for me. the most intellectually interesting, yet head-bangingly baffling, part of the whole "They are here/ they abduct".

Seeker7

a reply to: Puppylove

and know doubt hate, hate, Hate that film?

although the title song was catchy what an utter disappointment the rest was to me.

yep, genius that Mr Adams

as a species are we the Oglaroonians?

The Universe, as has been observed before, is an unsettling big place. The fact which, for the sake of a quiet life, most people tend to ignore. Many would happily move to somewhere rather smaller of their own devising, and this is what most beings, in fact, do. For instance, in one corner of the Eastern Galactic Arm lies the great forest planet Oglaroon. The entire ‘intelligent’ population of which lives permanently in one fairly small and crowded nut tree. In which tree they’re born, live, fall in love, carve tiny, speculative articles in the bark on the meaning of life, the futility of death, and the importance of birth control, fight a few - very minor - wars, and eventually die strapped to the underside of some of the less accessible outer branches. In fact, the only Oglaroonians who ever leave their tree at all are those who are hurled out for the heinous crime of wondering whether any of the other trees might be capable of supporting life at all, or indeed be anything other than illusions brought on by eating too many Oglanuts. Exotic though this behaviour may seem, there is no life-form in the galaxy not in some way guilty of the same thing. Which is why the Total Perspective Vortex is as horrific as it undoubtedly is. For when you are put in the Vortex, you are given just one, momentary glimpse of the size of the entire unimaginable infinity of creation along with a tiny little marker saying, “You are here”.

Douglas Adams - the hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy

funbox

a reply to: funbox

lol have yet to see the film.

a reply to: andre18

The gov has limitless power, because we authorize that with our tax money [which is infinitely powerful stuff as it runs whole countries], AND they haven't provided us aliens when and where we needed them to be!

TPTB should have either found aliens by now OR should have created them to fill our need for aliens!

And if TPTB say they need more TAX $'s to actually provide us an alien for real, then they can just print that money as we live in a fake fiat money system!

Time is well past this "there are no aliens" BS

Oh, there are enough who know all about the 'aliens'. They also know that humanity could not look at itself the same way again after disclosure. Fitting the pieces together isn't too hard. From ancient lore to modern day quantum mechanics, it all fits and the picture isn't pretty for us humans.

a reply to: andre18

I do agree with the statement of the thread is that government has no real power over it airspace, and that there is a force not of this earth hiding behind the shadows, or even maybe between the two ticks of a clock. It is a or I think it was, probably still is, is that the first rule of any war, is know your enemy.

As for the government, their could be different agencies involved, where some my have more power, or knowledge then others. It is quite known, from what I've seen on ATS, is that there is dis informants, but if they are making a fat pay check from the government or from the naive depends on the paper trial I guess.

The only thing the government seems to know is that they are real, but all they could know is just write the location or times of a sighting, let alone anything that could go with the sighting, such as the Iranian incident.

As for whats their purpose here, we could only guess, what they want. I personally figured that they are trying to study something, but what that would be, I haven't the faintest clue.

originally posted by: draknoir2
Here's the other thing: Any disclosure would be rejected by the UFO CT community as "disinfo", as has been the case in the past. So official "disclosure" is pointless if intended to appease those demanding it.

In that case we can see that disclosure may be happening all around us.

a reply to: Puppylove

ide save save yourself the bandwidth , but watch it just to see how badly wrong interpretation can go

the catchy song




funbox

I always say that the government is basically only interested in keeping two things secret: 1) what it knows, and 2) what it doesn't know.

I'm pretty sure that just like us, the government (or anybody in it) doesn't completely understand the fundamental nature of reality. I think that's what we're dealing with when it come to UFOs -- our human abilities and limits when it comes to understanding reality.

That would be a pretty unsatisfying "disclosure," wouldn't it? "Our official stance is that while most UFOs represent misperceptions and hoaxes, of the remaining unexplained events, we know of no 'alien' creatures to link them to, and we believe that they most likely represent some aspect of reality we currently and may never completely comprehend."

originally posted by: Specimen
As for whats their purpose here, we could only guess, what they want. I personally figured that they are trying to study something, but what that would be, I haven't the faintest clue.

Our tendency as humans is to assume that aliens would be motivated to do things for the same reasons we do things. It's mostly because as humans, it's hard for us to not think like humans. One of the things I love about UFO and alien stories is that they sometimes make no sense at all -- at least to our basic human logic.

So I try really hard to recognize when I'm trying to project my own perceptions and expectations on the activity. And what I come away with is that just like in Carl Sagan's "Flatland" analogy, I think I'm only seeing just a tiny part of what's going on, and trying to impose my version of reality on the situation. For instance, it's not that flying saucers are machines made of metal. It's that something is happening that our human brains don't understand, but try to make sense of it by interpreting it as a machine made of metal, because it's the closest thing we have in our range of understanding to compare it to.

So UFOs and aliens do things that make no sense at all, but only because we aren't smart or perceptive enough in the right way to see the whole picture. I don't know how to solve that problem. I've said before that maybe once we start building intelligent machines that think in ways that are not human, who can translate the situation for us, then maybe we'll get a better idea what's going on.

I agree that the government will not disclose anything they don't fully understand as it shatters the "illusion" of a all knowing powerful government.

If we believe witness testimony of inter dimensional beings, then the affects of disclosure would destroy our relative truths and the systems built up over the centuries.

I want disclosure as much as the next person, but if I was in power and had knowledge of beings from other plains of existence, you would never find out on my watch

originally posted by: rossacus
I agree that the government will not disclose anything they don't fully understand as it shatters the "illusion" of a all knowing powerful government.

If we believe witness testimony of inter dimensional beings, then the affects of disclosure would destroy our relative truths and the systems built up over the centuries.

I want disclosure as much as the next person, but if I was in power and had knowledge of beings from other plains of existence, you would never find out on my watch

Well said.

That's exactly the situation we are
in. Well its actually even more
frustrating than that. There is
very nearly nothing to disclose
that a non-expert could even
comprehend.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
I strongly believe we will have to wait a few generations until the entire planet become secularised to shed humans of any preconceptions of what's right. With religion still being the number 1 inhibiter of open mindedness disclosure would do more damage than good. We will soon realise everything we hold dear (money, cars, getting drunk) will have little relevance and cause what I call as a paradigm implosion

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
I strongly believe we will have to wait a few generations until the entire planet become secularised to shed humans of any preconceptions of what's right. With religion still being the number 1 inhibiter of open mindedness disclosure would do more damage than good. We will soon realise everything we hold dear (money, cars, getting drunk) will have little relevance and cause what I call as a paradigm implosion

Well the phenonemon which generates religion,
spirituality and UFOs is in no hurry to stop
doing its thing.

In 10 generations things will still be
much the same - unfortunately.

Kev

The Mirage Men, the illusionary aliens who always get away, where equipment stops working or they take your camera, so that for thousands of cases not a single one or few happen. You come closer to the oasis, it always runs away from you, you see it all the time in front of you and every time you don't reach it..

originally posted by: CollisioN
The Mirage Men, the illusionary aliens who always get away, where equipment stops working or they take your camera, so that for thousands of cases not a single one or few happen. You come closer to the oasis, it always runs away from you, you see it all the time in front of you and every time you don't reach it..

Well said.

The 'illusion' is the persistent belief that the
phenomenon has been or can be 'caught'.

Since the phenonemon seems completely
atemporal and 'we' are temporal, we can't
win this game ---- not using conventional
tactics.

Kev

originally posted by: CollisioN
You come closer to the oasis, it always runs away from you, you see it all the time in front of you and every time you don't reach it..

It's not a bad analogy. We see mirages because our perceptions and expectations are thrown off, and we don't understand the reality of what we're seeing. So, like with natural phenomena we can't immediately perceive or comprehend, we need to develop better machines that can help us. But it's not easy. Say there was a kind of field out there, kind of like the electromagnetic field, but it doesn't interact with us in ways we can easily detect. We don't have meters to read it. How would you go about designing a meter to read it? Modify an EMF meter? What if only had a very slight or erratic interaction with EMF?

It's hard to think both within and outside the box enough to come up with an idea for a device that could detect and translate "strangeness" into something maybe less strange.

A question for you all..

If you were the leader of a powerful nation, let's use U.S as an example, and you had ALL the information at your disposal in terms of aliens/ufo's. ..would you disclose this information to the public.

Let's assume for arguments sake their are no repucussions to your loved ones and that you have to maintain order and a prosperous economy. I ask that you be true to yourselves when/if answering.

a reply to: Seeker7

Actually many 'abduction' cases have turned out to be done by the military! Jacque Vallee wrote about a french case he investigated which he later found out had been done as some kind of social experiment by their military...

The military cases involve drugs and MKUltra techniques which give the victim 'memories' of the typical abduction scenario...

Even the 'famous' Travis Walton case shows evidence of being a military psyop (almost any case where the victim sees U.S. military men working 'with aliens' is more likely only the military - using mind 'altering' techniques to put aliens 'in the picture', so to speak)

a reply to: lostgirl

Yes indeed.

And as far as I know all the rest are
'psychic abductions' either 'real'
or sleep paralysis related.

Now I'm not saying that there are no
real abductions.

I suspect (still researching) that some
of those 'psychic' abductions might
have quantum/tempiral elements.

But real little green men who ride a
rocket across the cosmos to give
vast numbers of pointless anal
probes to barely sentient monkey
creatures who still think that
digital wrist watches are a good
idea?

Not so much.

Nice contrubution C.

Kev