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originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: dragonridr
I HIGHLY suggest you actually try to read and understand these things because at this point you're just throwing things out there and hoping it sticks. I explained it to you and now it comes down to 2 options. Either you don't understand anything that's being said yet you're still trying to debate against the issue or you somewhat understand but you have an internet ego that's to stubborn to simply say you're wrong.
You said:
The reason you can distinguish the difference in signal to noise ie a frequency change is because we can separate the entangled pairs. To do this we have to compare the two channels together. Are you seeing the problem I'm trying to explain to you yet?
Again, just hogwash. You don't have to compare anything together and this is why you have two separate channels.
You can have one pair of entangled photons in one information channel and you don't have to compare it to anything to know you have strong correlation between photons based on the high signal to noise ratio.
When you have two separate channels, you don't have to compare anything. You know one channel will be a 1 and the other channel will be an 0.
Say you have a 5 channel system between computers A and B. You want the channels to equal 100011. You just break entanglement in channels 2,3 and 4 and those channels will have a weaker signal to noise ration in their separate channels. There's no need to compare anything and like I said you can do this with a single channel.
In the channel-state duality, a channel is separable if and only if the corresponding state is separable. Several other characterizations of separable channels are known, notably that a channel is separable if and only if it is entanglement-breaking.
Again, it all leads back to this:
Why couldn't you detect entanglement breaking in one information channel while you still have strong correlations and signal to noise ratios in the subsequent channels?
originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: dragonridr
Again, throwing things out there and hoping it sticks.
You don't have to compare anything. They become separable because of entanglemt breaking.
Several other characterizations of separable channels are known, notably that a channel is separable if and only if it is entanglement-breaking.
The channels aren't separable if they both share a high correlation. This is because both channels will have a high signal to noise ratio. When you break entanglement in a particle pair for one channel it weakens the signal to noise ratio. You don't have to compare anything.
The channel that has high correlation between particles will not fall below a certain threshold when it comes to signal to noise.
The channel where entanglement is broken will fall below that threshold.
This has been done with just a single pair of entangled photons on one channel. They didn't have anything to compare it to. They just knew the particle pair had strong correlations because the signal to noise didn't fall below a certain threshold.
Again, you have to stop throwing nonsense out there and hoping it sticks. A lot of these things can be avoided if you just read up on these things and tried to understand them.
The question:
Why couldn't you detect entanglement breaking in one information channel while you still have strong correlations and signal to noise ratios in the subsequent channels?
originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: dragonridr
Asked and answered and now you're just on a fishing expedition and I'm done going back and forth with. I have answered all these questions and listed published papers of experiments that answers all of these questions. If you're not going to take the time to actually try to understand the issue you're debating, it's just a waste of time.
Last post you were talking about comparing corresponding states which has nothing to do with anything.
Before that you talked about comparing entangled photons to non entangled photons, which have nothing to do with anything.
Before that you were talking about causality, which has nothing to do with anything.
I'm through going back and forth with you. I will just refer you to past posts. This is a 7 page thread and you're just fishing. There's ways to debate against what I'm saying but you have just been throwing things out there that have nothing to do with anything that I'm saying.
What does this even mean??
How do we determine what part of our light beam we need to measure.How long do we have to break entanglement on our beam of light. And how do we know that entanglement wasn't broken during travel this applies to deep space since it's hard not to have energy hit our beam.
This has nothing to do with information channels and anything that I'm talking about. There's no time limit to break entanglement. You easily know information wasn't broken because the signal to noise ratio has fell below a certain threshold.
Like I said, these things have been asked and answered. All you need to do is simply answer the question.
Why couldn't you detect entanglement breaking in one information channel while you still have strong correlations and signal to noise ratios in the subsequent channels?
You or anyone else haven't answered the question and explained why this would be prohibited. You have just been throwing things out there and hoping it sticks.
So until you answer the simple question and explain why this would be prohibited from occurring, you will just get referred to a previous post. Just explain why this is prohibited and can't occur. Stop avoiding the question.
originally posted by: neoholographic
Again I ask:
Why couldn't you detect entanglement breaking in one information channel while you still have strong correlations and signal to noise ratios in the subsequent channels?
Entanglement is essential to many quantum information applications, but it is easily destroyed by quantum decoherence arising from interaction with the environment. We report the first experimental demonstration of an entanglement-based protocol that is resilient to loss and noise which destroy entanglement. Specifically, despite channel noise 8.3 dB beyond the threshold for entanglement breaking, eavesdropping-immune communication is achieved between Alice and Bob when an entangled source is used, but no such immunity is obtainable when their source is classical. The results prove that entanglement can be utilized beneficially in lossy and noisy situations, i.e., in practical scenarios.
Quantum entanglement enables tasks not possible in classical physics. Many quantum communication protocols1 require the distribution of entangled states between distant parties. Here, we experimentally demonstrate the successful transmission of an entangled photon pair over a 144 km free-space link. The received entangled states have excellent, noise-limited fidelity, even though they are exposed to extreme attenuation dominated by turbulent atmospheric effects. The total channel loss of 64 dB corresponds to the estimated attenuation regime for a two-photon satellite communication scenario. We confirm that the received two-photon states are still highly entangled by violating the Clauser–Horne–Shimony–Holt inequality by more than five standard deviations. From a fundamental point of view, our results show that the photons are subject to virtually no decoherence during their 0.5-ms-long flight through air, which is encouraging for future worldwide quantum communication scenarios.
The quantum entanglement of particles, such as photons, is a prerequisite for the new and future technologies of quantum computing, telecommunications, and cyber security. Real-world applications that take advantage of this technology, however, will not be fully realized until devices that produce such quantum states leave the realms of the laboratory and are made both small and energy efficient enough to be embedded in electronic equipment. In this vein, European scientists have created and installed a tiny "ring-resonator" on a microchip that is claimed to produce copious numbers of entangled photons while using very little power to do so.
Entangled photons have been produced on a silicon chip before, but the number of pairs produced was low, and the amount of energy required to achieve this was prohibitively high – especially on a low-powered device such as a silicon chip. This is where the new micro-ring resonator claims its points of difference.
originally posted by: GetHyped
I see it's time again for OP's monthly "FTL communication is possible and everyone else is an idiot for not agreeing with me" thread. Can't these threads be merged or something? It's the same infinite loop of dialog that persists in every thread of his on this topic.
originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: dragonridr
You're not making any sense.
Why do we need to compare it to another set when were checking for a strong or weak signal in an information channel?
Have you read anything I have posted or do you just keep throwing things out there and hope it sticks. Why do you keep avoiding the simple question. If this can't be done then tell us why it's prohibited.
Why couldn't you detect entanglement breaking in one information channel while you still have strong correlations and signal to noise ratios in the subsequent channels?
With each post you just dig yourself deeper into a hole. You can't simple explain why this can't occur.
The question becomes how do you know what the signal to noise ratio is is we can't distinguish between the two.
originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: mbkennel
Asked and answered:
First off, if you don't understand the basics, you're not going to learn them by blindly replying on a message board. I have listed tons of information in this thread including actual experiments and published papers. It seems you guys just skip any facts that stand in the way and ask the same questions.
For instance you asked:
But first, please repeat your understanding of what it means to "detect entanglement breaking", as in what needs to be measured and what computations need to take place to decide if entanglement is broken or not.
This is simply a silly question. You guys ask these types of questions because you're just fishing. Detecting breaking of entanglement just didn't occur yesterday. It's been around for awhile. If you would have read the first paper I listed, you wouldn't have to ask such questions.
But you guys don't read or try to understand anything, you just blindly ask the same questions.
So from here it's simple. If you have 2 informations channels with entangled photon pairs. One going to Alice the other going to Bob.
When the signal to noise ratio is highly correlated that's a 1. When the correlation is broken and the signal to noise ratio is weaker that's an 0.
highly correlated/weakly correlated
1/0
yes/no
It's simple common sense.
When a particle pair is entangled they are correlated. You break entanglement by simply changing one part of the correlated system which adds more noise to the information channel and gives you a weaker signal to noise ratio.
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS EXPLAIN WHY THIS IS PROHIBITED AND CAN'T OCCUR.
Why can't you have a network of correlated/uncorrelated with instant communication between the network?
Recently Demetrios Kalamidas published a purported FTL signaling
scheme (Kalamidas 2013) which is clever but hard to understand due
to a difficult-to-read choice of naming conventions. So that his inge-
nious experiment may be more widely appreciated, I reproduce his
proof, using more obvious (to me) notation.
Although both photons are path-superposed, Bob can break that su-
perposition by measuring either B1 or B2 thus collapsing his B photon
to a single path. Because of their mutual entanglement, Alice's photon
also (instantly?) collapses to a single path. When Alice's photon trav-
els both paths (1 and 2), there is the possibility of her detecting inter-
ference; when Alice's photon travels only one path, interference is im-
possible. The Kalamidas Effect works by using a novel way of erasing
Bob's "which-path info" and hence distantly producing or suppressing
interference at Alice's detectors.
originally posted by: corsair00
a reply to: neoholographic
Much of this stuff is beyond my capability, but I am sometimes able to find appropriate source materials that may contain the correct answers.
In this case the best information appears to lie in a 2013 paper by Nick Herbert where he breaks down a more recent scientific explanation for FTL communication. It may also be the source of the Alice and Bob experiment from 'the Kalamidas Effect'.
FTL Signaling Made Easy: Maximizing the Kalamidas Effect
Recently Demetrios Kalamidas published a purported FTL signaling
scheme (Kalamidas 2013) which is clever but hard to understand due
to a difficult-to-read choice of naming conventions. So that his inge-
nious experiment may be more widely appreciated, I reproduce his
proof, using more obvious (to me) notation.
Although both photons are path-superposed, Bob can break that su-
perposition by measuring either B1 or B2 thus collapsing his B photon
to a single path. Because of their mutual entanglement, Alice's photon
also (instantly?) collapses to a single path. When Alice's photon trav-
els both paths (1 and 2), there is the possibility of her detecting inter-
ference; when Alice's photon travels only one path, interference is im-
possible. The Kalamidas Effect works by using a novel way of erasing
Bob's "which-path info" and hence distantly producing or suppressing
interference at Alice's detectors.
Read more here: QUANTUM TANTRA: Investigating New Doorways Into Nature