Gamergate and Cyber Bullying

a reply to: Prezbo369

Being a worthless collusive toad should really be the disservice that she is concerned about; the one nature gave her.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Mate, she's been on that list since...well, since august..

a reply to: amazing

Freaking Salon....
Really?

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: amazing

Freaking Salon....
Really?

Yeah, but I'll even quote fox news once in a while. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: amazing
LOL I love you too!

lol

I still think it's relevant because it shows how the same trolls are latching onto diversity and feminism in Comics.

It does nothing of the sort....And it's not "diversity"..it's gender-swapping a well known comic book character. I personally don't care, as i don't read comic books, but even i understand that traditionally, Thor has been a dude. I can understand how people might be annoyed by this. I mean, what if superman, spiderman, batman, the green lantern, daredevil, guy gardner, lobo, wolverine, cyclops, gambit, or the silver surfer were swapped to women?...i have nothing against female superheros, but gender swapping an established character, in the name of "diversity" is f**king stupid, and smacks of pandering, and patronization....

You see trolls, i see comic book enthusiasts being annoyed by more feminist-driven, politically correct bulls**t....

These same people ARE still flying the gamerate banner

[CITATION NEEDED]

It's also relevant because it brings up another issue "Social Justice Warriors." I don't think that Social Justice Warrior should be a derogatory tag.

Then you clearly don't know what SJWs are all about, and how they act...it's a derogatory term for very good reasons.

I think by using that term you hurt people like me that are actual Social Justice Warriors and doing good things in the world. Yeah?

You're not a SJW...if you were, i wouldn't even be attempting to have a conversation with you...logical, fact-based discussion with a SJW is utterly impossible.

I have two thoughts on what you said here. One is that by giving someone/group a name like Social Justice Warrior, it tends to hurt or put people in a category. Like if I say...anything with those three words...like I'm fighting for social justice within Gamergate...then I'm labeled as a social Justice warrior by some. or if I say I am pro-feminist, I don't want to get lumped into the social justice warrior category.

The second thing is that you said "...You see trolls, i see comic book enthusiasts being annoyed by more feminist-driven, politically correct bulls**t.... " Just because something is feminist-driven doesn't make it bad, even if you or I disagree with it. Take female thor for example. Is it really pandering or is it a creative or money making decision? And still it's a very small drop in the bucket against the rampant fire of misogyny in geek culture.

a reply to: amazing

This isn't one of those times considering that GG is falsely painted as a misogynistic group.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: amazing

This isn't one of those times considering that GG is falsely painted as a misogynistic group.

But that's my point ...is that so many misogynistic people have flocked under it... it's literally been taken over by them. Just for the sake of argument, if there are 100 people in gamergate and 51 of them are misogynists...then it's a problem. That's what I think has happened.

How is this still being talked about? Whatever.

But take a female dominated activity, call it sexist and the like, and you'll get upset reactions. Then call them man-haters and you'll get the same thing that is happening here. It's a set-up. Anyone right now could do the above and it'd follow the same course as here.

a reply to: amazing

Your numbers are WAY off.
I have seen maybe one or two who skirt the edge of actual misogyny.
And again you ignore the actual women in GG.

originally posted by: amazing
I have two thoughts on what you said here. One is that by giving someone/group a name like Social Justice Warrior, it tends to hurt or put people in a category. Like if I say...anything with those three words...like I'm fighting for social justice within Gamergate...then I'm labeled as a social Justice warrior by some. or if I say I am pro-feminist, I don't want to get lumped into the social justice warrior category.

Again, you're not understanding what a "social justice warrior" is, or even what the concept of "social justice" is...

So i shall attempt to educate you, in the hopes that it improves the quality of discourse..

"Social Justice" is defined as: "the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society", which, on the face of it, sounds fairly simple, and straight forward, despite being somewhat vague..

It is further described, and defined, more clearly as: "justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society". Seems fairly innocuous, and not really something that ought to be frowned upon, or fought against, right? I agree...

"Social Justice Warriors" though, aren't actually fighting for real social justice...I hope you'll forgive me for quoting wikipedia, but it describes these people in a far more civil, and diplomatic fashion than i can....

"In internet culture, the term has been used as a pejorative for someone campaigning against things they perceive to be instances of racism, sexism, homophobia or other social injustice. Frequently initialized as "SJW", it is used to accuse opponents of sanctimony, to insinuate pretense, as a pejorative, and as a general shorthand for a person believed to be overreacting to social issues. Although most commonly used to cast negative implications, some have attempted to reappropriate the term as a neutral or positive source of identity."

They are basically people who bitch about first world problems, as if they're the worst s**t since the holocaust. They actively LOOK for things to be offended about, and go out of their way to be offended by things that most sane people would just shrug off as silly....and they are so arrogant as to think that their viewpoint is the only one that matters, and that the way they think things ought to be, is the only correct way for things to be...They want to change society, so it functions in the way THEY feel is correct, they operate in black and white absolutes, and are completely oblivious to the concepts of nuance, and degree, and they want all of society to function in this way...to operate under this same rigid, narrow-minded set of rules...

They are, quite literally, the most Intellectually dishonest, disingenuous, ignorant, hypocritical, toxic, divisive, disruptive people in our society....SJWs make trolls look downright pleasant.

You are not one of these disgusting people. You come close, at times, but you haven't gone full SocJus yet...There's still hope for you.

Feminism also isn't a concept that i am directly opposed to.....however, i am absolutely opposed to modern, third-wave feminism, because it has NOTHING to do with ACTUAL feminism....

Feminism is the belief that women should be treated as equals to men, with respect to employment opportunities(with obvious exceptions), compensation, and rights within society. To me, that they should have these things, is a no brainer...but then again, i'm a hopeless humanist, and i think EVERYONE should have those things....

Modern, third-wave feminism(also commonly referred to as "radical feminism"), however, isn't about equal rights for women...it's about female supremacy. With things like "SCUM"(which stands for "Society for Cutting Up Men". Look it up, it's f**king awful), the #KillAllMen twitter hashtag, scores of radical feminists, talking about how men should be killed, or hated...it's pretty clear what they're all about nowadays...They constantly repeat talking points that have been proven false, like the gender pay gap, and the "1 in 4" rape statistic, and a whole host of other bulls**t claims, that serve no other purpose than to create a delusion of constant oppression and threat, and generate a climate of hatred against, and distrust of men....and then there's the endless preaching about "rape culture", and "patriarchy"

I'll leave you with a number of quotes that demonstrate how nuts these people are...

"The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." -- Linda Gordon

"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex." -- Valerie Solana, SCUM founder (Society for Cutting Up Men.)

"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." -- Andrea Dworkin

Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin

More here: www.experienceproject.com...

The second thing is that you said "...You see trolls, i see comic book enthusiasts being annoyed by more feminist-driven, politically correct bulls**t.... " Just because something is feminist-driven doesn't make it bad, even if you or I disagree with it. Take female thor for example. Is it really pandering or is it a creative or money making decision? And still it's a very small drop in the bucket against the rampant fire of misogyny in geek culture.

Firstly, yes, it is pandering and patronization....it's riddled with radical feminist propaganda, and they even take shots at GG...it's total bulls**t

Secondly, I'm going to need a citation for that "rampant fire"....just because you say it exists, doesn't mean it actually does...additionally, Yes, female Thor is a drop in the bucket..but your ignoring everything else. If you look at this, in the greater context, it suddenly isn't as minor as you make it out to be..

originally posted by: amazing
But that's my point ...is that so many misogynistic people have flocked under it... it's literally been taken over by them. Just for the sake of argument, if there are 100 people in gamergate and 51 of them are misogynists...then it's a problem. That's what I think has happened.

And you have yet to produce shred one of evidence that such is the case....you just keep saying the same thing over and over again....you need to actually prove it.

a reply to: ghaleon12

It's still being talked about, because it's not over yet.

a reply to: Daedalus

At this rate, probably never will be.
That's the sad part.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: amazing
But that's my point ...is that so many misogynistic people have flocked under it... it's literally been taken over by them. Just for the sake of argument, if there are 100 people in gamergate and 51 of them are misogynists...then it's a problem. That's what I think has happened.

And you have yet to produce shred one of evidence that such is the case....you just keep saying the same thing over and over again....you need to actually prove it.

In all of your exposure to all the sides of gamerate, you guys have never seen but 1 or 2 misogynistic trolls? How is that possible. I see them in every article and post and comments section in every article and post. They're everywhere.

I dont' think that's really up for discussion. There are hundreds if not thousands of them all over gamerate...all over. No citation needed. It would be like you asking me for a citation showing that republicans dislike Obama.

I think what's up for discussion is how pervasive it is and what the real numbers and precentages are.

If the trolls account of 10% of gamerate...then I'm dead wrong and many of my assumptions are wrong from the start. You win hands down, I'll concede and admit defeat.

If it's 20%...I think I'm still wrong, but so are you guys. That's a huge number still and that's why the perception of gamerate, that I'm talking about is out there.

If it's 30-40% then I think I'm correct. I think that's sizable enough to be changing the core direction of gamerate and actually assuming some control. But maybe there's still hope to right the ship, but only if it's closer to 30 and even then I'm not convinced although you could make a good argument.

If it's closer to the 40% 50% range then I think I'm correct. I feel it's there. YOu guys lose. You can't regain control. It's over. It's the titanic and you've already hit the iceberg.

a reply to: amazing

There is no doubt about this. I inadvertently, because of a certain avatar and color I used in a popular gaming forum, was perceived as a woman, and you have no idea the abuse and bullying I got for just posting anything. It was almost on the line of being gang-stalked, by gamer-gate strangers. Of course they had no idea I was a male. But I was left disgusted with the whole group of mythologist bullies.

Disgusting people. Make me want to vomit in my mouth when I hear the name.

No doubt the posters here defending their disgusting filth are trolls. That's why I won't engage more in this thread.

Everyone in the tech industry, and gamers who are exposed to the movement, know exactly what the GG (there is no good game in that gg) community is an stands for.

originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: amazing

There is no doubt about this. I inadvertently, because of a certain avatar and color I used in a popular gaming forum, was perceived as a woman, and you have no idea the abuse and bullying I got for just posting anything. It was almost on the line of being gang-stalked, by gamer-gate strangers. Of course they had no idea I was a male. But I was left disgusted with the whole group of mythologist bullies.

Disgusting people. Make me want to vomit in my mouth when I hear the name.

No doubt the posters here defending their disgusting filth are trolls. That's why I won't engage more in this thread.

Everyone in the tech industry, and gamers who are exposed to the movement, know exactly what the GG (there is no good game in that gg) community is an stands for.

You know that's a good point. I would think that as an experiment. We could create a female online identity and push for feminist views in gaming...not radical or anything and see what happens. We could use the people on this thread that I've been sparring with to watch ---and help gather the responses and help put forth our agenda to see how badly we get trolled.

What do you say guys...let's put this to the test.

Daedalus and Harbinger and help me create a contrary, well put viewpoint that we can all agree with that isn't radical...and makes sense so that we can see how badly we get bullied and trolled. We could say something about creating an all female gaming company..I don't know. Help me out guys. Let's do this.

originally posted by: amazing
In all of your exposure to all the sides of gamerate, you guys have never seen but 1 or 2 misogynistic trolls? How is that possible. I see them in every article and post and comments section in every article and post. They're everywhere.

If it's so pervasive, then surely you can point us to some of these articles, and posts, and comment sections....

I dont' think that's really up for discussion.

I think this is fairly closed-minded of you.

There are hundreds if not thousands of them all over gamerate...all over.

Again, Citation Needed. Do you have some sort of running tally, that gives you a rough estimate of exactly how many "misogynistic trolls" exist on the internet, with a sub-tally, that gives you the number of how many identify as GG supporters?

You can't just throw around numbers, without something to back those numbers...

No citation needed. It would be like you asking me for a citation showing that republicans dislike Obama.

The two requests are not functionally equivalent.

I think what's up for discussion is how pervasive it is and what the real numbers and precentages are.

But you just said it's NOT up for discussion, because you already KNOW how many they are, and what percentage they hold. Which is it, Amazing?

originally posted by: iNobody
There is no doubt about this.

In your mind.

I inadvertently, because of a certain avatar and color I used in a popular gaming forum, was perceived as a woman, and you have no idea the abuse and bullying I got for just posting anything. It was almost on the line of being gang-stalked, by gamer-gate strangers. Of course they had no idea I was a male. But I was left disgusted with the whole group of mythologist bullies.

Citation Needed. What forum? What was your handle? Can you provide links to the relevant threads? How do you know the people you interacted with were GG supporters? Did they mention GG?

An unsubstantiated claim, based on an anecdote, does not prove ANYTHING....

Your personal experience with morons on an internet forum, does not prove that the way the people in your story acted, is how EVERYONE that supports GG acts.

Disgusting people. Make me want to vomit in my mouth when I hear the name.

Yes, because those people on that one forum, represent every GG supporter everywhere... -rolls eyes-

Guilt by association, anyone?

No doubt the posters here defending their disgusting filth are trolls.

Riiiiight....because we've done absolutely ANYTHING to substantiate THAT idiotic claim... -rolls eyes-

That's why I won't engage more in this thread.

No, i think it's because you are at least bright enough to understand that the longer you engage, the greater the chances are that you'll be exposed as being completely full of crap, and a troll.

I could be wrong though, and despite your obvious bias, and contempt, i am still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and hear you out. Amazing can attest to the FACT, that i will give you a fair shake, and not just write you off....because i'm only interested in the truth, and i follow the evidence..

I don't actually expect you to provide me with the information that i asked for, so i suppose your claims will remain unsubstantiated, and thus, absolutely irrelevant, and worthless to the conversation...But i'm willing to listen, if you're willing to tell me your story.

Everyone in the tech industry, and gamers who are exposed to the movement, know exactly what the GG (there is no good game in that gg) community is an stands for.

"everyone".....man, that's an awfully broad brush you're wielding, there....You might wanna dial back on the absolutes, hyperbole, and weasel words...

I say this, because you must have missed the memo....Gamers support GG, Women support GG, "minorities" support GG, honest VG news outlets support GG, and a growing list of devs support GG....We are a consumer revolt, who want games journalists to adhere to acceptable ethical standards, that's who we are...and that's what we stand for....

originally posted by: amazing
You know that's a good point. I would think that as an experiment. We could create a female online identity and push for feminist views in gaming...not radical or anything and see what happens. We could use the people on this thread that I've been sparring with to watch ---and help gather the responses and help put forth our agenda to see how badly we get trolled.

It's disappointing, but not entirely unexpected, that you would just take him at his word, without asking ANY questions....What happened to critical thinking, to skepticism, to questioning everything, and denying ignorance?

Random dude shows up, tosses an anecdote, and an unsubstantiated claim at you, and you just take it at face value, without questioning it in the slightest? c'mon man...This is clear confirmation bias. Stop it.

That said, i think this is an awful idea....

You basically wanna go somewhere, engage in trolling, and then use the completely predictable response, to "prove" that you're assertions and assumptions are correct.

This is not only one of the worst ideas i've ever seen, it's also one of the stupidest. This is the same kind of s**t that the anti side accuses GG supporters of doing...

What do you say guys...let's put this to the test.

Nope, i'll pass. It's a terrible idea, and i'm not going to participate in, enable, or facilitate bad behavior.

Daedalus and Harbinger and help me create a contrary, well put viewpoint that we can all agree with that isn't radical...and makes sense so that we can see how badly we get bullied and trolled. We could say something about creating an all female gaming company..I don't know. Help me out guys. Let's do this.

Nope.

And even if i were to agree to participate in this farcical endeavor, i'd never be able to fit the bill for a viewpoint we can all agree on, that isn't radical, because the anti-side is either radical, misinformed, brainwashed, deluded, or just plain stupid.

It's about ethics in games journalism....all the fighting over redfem propaganda, SJW BS, and gender politics, is only a result of the MSM, and VG press, teaming up with SJW's, radfems, and the rest of them, to cover up, and distract from their sins....

This BS that GG started as a hate movement, and is nothing more than a campaign of woman hatred, is just that..BS...a smokescreen, to distract from the real discussion.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: amazing
You know that's a good point. I would think that as an experiment. We could create a female online identity and push for feminist views in gaming...not radical or anything and see what happens. We could use the people on this thread that I've been sparring with to watch ---and help gather the responses and help put forth our agenda to see how badly we get trolled.

It's disappointing, but not entirely unexpected, that you would just take him at his word, without asking ANY questions....What happened to critical thinking, to skepticism, to questioning everything, and denying ignorance?

Random dude shows up, tosses an anecdote, and an unsubstantiated claim at you, and you just take it at face value, without questioning it in the slightest? c'mon man...This is clear confirmation bias. Stop it.

That said, i think this is an awful idea....

You basically wanna go somewhere, engage in trolling, and then use the completely predictable response, to "prove" that you're assertions and assumptions are correct.

This is not only one of the worst ideas i've ever seen, it's also one of the stupidest. This is the same kind of s**t that the anti side accuses GG supporters of doing...

What do you say guys...let's put this to the test.

Nope, i'll pass. It's a terrible idea, and i'm not going to participate in, enable, or facilitate bad behavior.

Daedalus and Harbinger and help me create a contrary, well put viewpoint that we can all agree with that isn't radical...and makes sense so that we can see how badly we get bullied and trolled. We could say something about creating an all female gaming company..I don't know. Help me out guys. Let's do this.

Nope.

And even if i were to agree to participate in this farcical endeavor, i'd never be able to fit the bill for a viewpoint we can all agree on, that isn't radical, because the anti-side is either radical, misinformed, brainwashed, deluded, or just plain stupid.

It's about ethics in games journalism....all the fighting over redfem propaganda, SJW BS, and gender politics, is only a result of the MSM, and VG press, teaming up with SJW's, radfems, and the rest of them, to cover up, and distract from their sins....

This BS that GG started as a hate movement, and is nothing more than a campaign of woman hatred, is just that..BS...a smokescreen, to distract from the real discussion.

I disagree with your entire post.

Random guy walks into a thread so I so let's put it to the test, of what he says. How is that blindly believing him? Second we wouldn't be engaged in trolling. It's a good experiment.

What I'm saying is, we create a female online identity and put forth feminist views that we can all agree on. You've already said yourself that you agree with the basic premise of feminism and that you and others stand up for and call out any trolling/women hating posts.

Then you just said that we would get predictable results? Meaning...that my arguments are right. Any valid feminist gaming view point is instantly attacked by gamergaters/woman haters?

Sounds like you're afraid that this experiment would expose gamergate for what it is.

Just saying. It would be completely truthful and honest and we would see the results firsthand instead of relying other's veiw points.

medium.com...@poopsockholmes/the-bad-apples-of-gamergate-ba39f8fd485