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According to Paul, Jesus was a sinner

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posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




If Jesus was made in EVERY respect like us, that can only mean one of two thing: A. Jesus was a sinner just like every one of us. B. We can become sinless just as Jesus supposedly was. Both options are supported by scripture.


Do you just get an idea, and then go find a Scripture you can distort to fit that idea in some way?

How is "Jesus was a sinner like everyone" supported by Scripture?????

Hebrews 2
17 Therefore, it was necessary for him to be made in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people.

"it was necessary for him to be made in every respect like us...." this passage means Jesus was fully human.

1 Peter 3:18
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

He had to be made in the flesh(John 1) to be a sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 4
For we do not have a high priest(Jesus) who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus was fully human, and tempted by sin. He was not a sinner though. That is clear in Scripture:

1 Peter 2:22
He(Jesus) committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth.

Paul obviously doesn't think Christ was a sinner seeing as how 2 Cor 5:21 says "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. "

1 John 3:5
" You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. "

You might also know that Jesus is referenced as the sacrificial lamb. This lamb was to be without blemish or spot. Symbolizing that the Messiah would be a sinless person. (1 Peter 1:19)




Those who are born of God CANNOT continue sinning, meaning if we are born of God we can become like Jesus.


You are missing that there are two types of people mentioned in the Bible. Sinners and Saints. Saints are those redeemed by the blood of Christ. They are no longer sinners, but they are sinful.




posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

That doesn't make any sense though, if they're sinful then they are sinners. That's like saying someone who drinks alcohol every day and gets drunk isn't an alcoholic.


John 9
31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.


If all Christians are sinners then why do they think God listens to them? God only listens to those who do his will. What's his will? To love others as yourself and to love God.

The bible says that no one is good, no one is godly, yet this verse says that God only listens to those who are godly. How does this fit in with Christian doctrine in any way?

Cue the mental gymnastics.

edit on 2/12/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




That doesn't make any sense though, if they're sinful then they are sinners. That's like saying someone who drinks alcohol every day and gets drunk isn't an alcoholic.


I can see how that comes across that way.

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross (Col 2:13-14)"

I have been made alive in Christ so all of my sins have been forgiven.

How are we still sinful but not sinners(from God's perspective):

Romans 7
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Notice in Romans 8 those who set their Mind on flesh or Mind on Spirit. To repent literally means to change ones mind. A person is a Saint if their mind is set on the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. A person is a sinner if they set their mind on things of the flesh.

Lots of Scripture but I feel it does a better job than I could



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

How do you reconcile God only listening to those who are godly when Paul says no one is good (godly)? Does this mean God listens to no one since no one is godly? If Christians are sinners and God does not listen to sinners, does that mean God does not listen to Christians?



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




If Christians are sinners and God does not listen to sinners, does that mean God does not listen to Christians?


True Christians are not sinners they are saints. Two categories of people. Did you even read the passaged I sent you and try and understand them?

Tell me what they mean to you....



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 12:03 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Sounds to me like Paul is passing his own actions off to Satan. No personal responsibility basically, just believe and sin all you want because you aren't actually the one sinning, it's the evil within you that is doing it.

"But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good."

So basically sinning (doing what you don't want to do) means the Law is good? How does that make any sense? I thought the Law was to love others and God? What sin is there in that?

Sinning means to agree that the Law is good. Sounds like a free pass to sin, turning sin into a good thing because it means you agree with the Law.

"So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."

So basically don't take any personal responsibility for the sin you commit, pass it off as something or someone else doing it. Again, sounds like a free pass to sin.

Yeah, that's a bunch of hogwash.
edit on 2/13/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb


True Christians are not sinners they are saints.


Then there isn't a single true Christian alive today...

So me a man who claims he has no sin... that man is a liar

All Christians are sinners... that's a basic tenant of Christianity




posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Not anymore apparently. SotL has just rewritten hundreds of years of work by those in the church. We're full of sin and commit sin every day, but somehow we aren't sinners.

This would win a gold medal at the mental Olympics.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




Sounds to me like Paul is passing his own actions off to Satan. No personal responsibility basically, just believe and sin all you want because you aren't actually the one sinning, it's the evil within you that is doing it.


You obviously did not read and understand the message presented by the words........like I said earlier I think you get this idea in your head that sounds great and amazing to you and then go find scripture you can distort to try and make it seem biblical.

Paul is describing the mental experience he has as a believer whose spirit is born again but resides in sinful flesh. He also describes that where ones mind is placed is what matters. If one places his mind of things of the flesh rather than the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, then they are still sinners and not yet saints.




"But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good." So basically sinning (doing what you don't want to do) means the Law is good? How does that make any sense? I thought the Law was to love others and God? What sin is there in that?


And the distortion begins.....how on earth did you come to the conclusion that what you said and that passage mean anywhere near the same thing???

Romans 7:7
"What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

The purpose of the law is to show us what sin is.

Paul is just reiterating his point from verse 7, again in Romans 16:
Romans 7
But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Breakdown of Romans 7 verse 16:

But if i do the very thing I do not want to do....

Lets pause here and check our context. What is the very thing I do not want to do? Verse 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Ok so there is something he would like to do and something he doesn't want to do. That all we have so far. Then Paul elaborated later on in verse 19 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

Ok so now we understand that Paul wants to do Good, but does Bad. So "the very thing I do not want to do..." is evil.

But if I do evil, then I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good....

Remember verse 7, the purpose of the law is to show us that we sin. Paul is saying because he admits that what He does is evil, then by default he is calling the opposite Good. Essentially it is, like i said earlier, a simpler reiteration of his point in verse 7.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 06:08 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




SotL has just rewritten hundreds of years of work by those in the church. We're full of sin and commit sin every day, but somehow we aren't sinners.


I didn't say people aren't sinners. We are all sinners when we are born. I said there are two categories of people on earth:sinners and saints. Saints are those who have set their mind on the Spirit of life in Christ. Sinners=everyone else. Its not complicated, but I suppose to someone who wants to be God so badly accepting a flaw in your nature would be devastating to your ego.



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So you ARE a sinner? But you're a saint? But you're a sinner that is a saint so you aren't a sinner? But you are a sinner.

Makes total sense. God doesn't listen to sinners but since you are a saint he listens to you.... but you still consider yourself a sinner so he doesn't listen to you... but you're a saint so he does. But since you're a sinner he does not listen to you.

Round and round we go! That's one way to ease cognitive dissonance, state two things as true even though they're total opposites. Saint means "blameless", sinner means the total opposite, but people can be both at the same time! Kinda like a hermaphrodite I guess?

I understand exactly what Paul is saying. He says that since he believes that means the sin he commits is not his fault, it is the fault of the sin itself. That's exactly what he says, do you disagree? If so, you haven't read your own passage.
edit on 2/13/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




So you ARE a sinner? But you're a saint? But you're a sinner that is a saint so you aren't a sinner? But you are a sinner.


Yea at no point in time was I that confused...I was a sinner I became a saint when I accepted Christ. Its really not complicated....

edit on 14-2-2015 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)



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