The Militarization of Near Space?

originally posted by: jazz10
Watch a video on YouTube
Dr Carol Rosin and listen to what Dr Von Braun disclosed to her in the late 70's early 80's.

Did he tell her on his death bed..."Carol...(coff)...Carol...sound....doesn't...travel...(coff)...in space!" (aaarrgh!)

And despite Bedlam's protests, the U.S. Navy thinks enough of the military future for "plasma," that it has an entire Division dedicated to it:

www.nrl.navy.mil...
U.S. NAVY RESEARCH LAB: PLASMA PHYSICS DIVISION
"Considerable emphasis is placed on large-scale numerical simulations related to plasma dynamics." Doesn't sound like they're working on hand-held phasers ...

www.nrl.navy.mil...
PLASMA PHYSICS DIVISION: NEWS
Sounds like the Navy is also working with plasma on everything from an "electro-magnetic railgun" to an "underwater photo-ionization laser acoustic source".

***************************************************************************************
And here's an archived MIT article from 2011, discussing the main idea of this thread - Satellite Wars:

www.technologyreview.com...
(2011) U.S. AND CHINA'S SPACE-WEAPONS SHOWDOWN?

I apologize if this has been said but im still reading and wanted to throw this out there. The treaty about the militarization of space has to deal with weapons of mass destruction, take whatever definition of that as you will.

Also, the F-15 is the perfect choice to launch minisats. The screamin eagle tests proved that. It broke several world records for climb rates and stuff.

originally posted by: MKMoniker
And despite Bedlam's protests, the U.S. Navy thinks enough of the military future for "plasma," that it has an entire Division dedicated to it:

And despite MK's ignorance, what did you think HAARP was for? I can't help it if you don't actually read your links for info. It is a lot easier to just google for keywords, though.

Doesn't sound like they're working on hand-held phasers ...

Can you explain, without quoting or copypasta, and in your own words what it DOES sound like? Should be fun.

Oh, btw, old Ionatron news is old.

Sounds like the Navy is also working with plasma on everything from an "electro-magnetic railgun" to an "underwater photo-ionization laser acoustic source".

I'm morally sure we had a discussion about that last one here on ATS years ago, although I have not been able to find a link to it, wherein we discussed using one or more lasers to create an ensonified zone behind a submarine as a sort of never-ending countermeasure. That's not new either.

That to say, no one's saying plasma isn't important (see also endless discussions on plasma stealth and boundary layer control I've contributed to or started) but that it's got nothing to do with Marx generators in the Russian countryside. Nor does HAARP help Ionatrons shoot death beams.

Keyword searches are not your friend. They are the first step to learning something, maybe.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: MKMoniker

If you have ever seen a triangle moving silently, low, and slow, then you know that there was more on Reagan's mind than the "Brilliant Pebbles" project. Other key projects were where the lost trillions of the Pentagon went.

Talk in the media about advanced jets and wings is mostly cover talk to misdirect and take attention away from stunning reports of triangles. Turn such talk on its head and ask questions of why there never was a legitimate replacement for the shuttle and dozens other logical questions about orbiting military platforms, bases on the Moon if not Mars made possible by triangles and similar craft fashioned from UFO technology. And that new rail gun on display in DC last week? That is your perfect orbital space defensive and offensive weapon, better than a laser.

I always just ask why is there never a legitimate photo of a "triangle"? All these people claim to have seen them, yet not a single one of the so called "thousands" of people who have seen these things managed to take a photo of it. Kind of strange to me.

And a railgun is a terrible weapon to fire in space. Your not dealing with aerodynamics up there. Its all about orbital mechanics. Just think that if an A-10 fires his 30 mm gun for too long he will stall the aircraft. Imagine what would happen if a railgun was fired in space without an atmosphere to stop the reverse action.

HAARP, in the words of the groups that ran it, was to develop methods of adapting the ionosphere for IMPROVED COMMUNICATIONS AND INTERCEPTION OF SIGNALS.

www.techtimes.com...
(May 2013) U.S. AIR FORCE TO SHUT DOWN HAARP, PUTTING ALL CONSPIRACY THEORIES TO REST
"Still, military officials have made other remarks which seem to portray HAARP as a prototype weapon." (And they wondered where all the conspiracies sprang from?)

And all the HAARPs around the world have been involved in Mad Scientist research, that is clearly not healthy for the Earth - and yields minimal helpful research data:

www.news.com.au...
/story-e6frflri-1225848774377
(2010) EXPLOSIVE RADAR BURSTS MESSING WITH METEOROLOGY WEATHER VIEWS
Recorded over Australian areas experiencing "an unusually hot day", there were no clouds or other visible clues picked up by satellites to explain these bizarre patterns on radar.

And beyond all the conspiracy sites, scientists and researchers were genuinely concerned over what was going on with HAARP:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
(2004) HAARP TREMORS BENEATH SAN ANDREAS FAULT TROUBLING SCIENTISTS

exopolitics.blogs.com...
(2001) INDEPENDENT SCIENTIST LEUREN MORET BLAMING HAARP FOR ALL SORT OF ENVIRONMENTAL BADNESS

As I said earlier, HAARP was shut down in May 2013, supposedly as the groups running it looked for a more careful and discriminating contractor to run it. In the end, HAARP (Alaska) is staying unused, and will be dismantled this year. So clearly the "HAARP conspiracies" added up to more than just crazy, impossible stories ...

originally posted by: MKMoniker
HAARP, in the words of the groups that ran it, was to develop methods of adapting the ionosphere for IMPROVED COMMUNICATIONS AND INTERCEPTION OF SIGNALS.

You bet! That's certainly one of the main purposes. And how is that done? What IS ducting? Why would you want that?

"Still, military officials have made other remarks which seem to portray HAARP as a prototype weapon." (And they wondered where all the conspiracies sprang from?)

I'd say they sprang from people who don't know radio from rabbit, saw something that was all technical, spooky and difficult for them to understand, then, aided by Nick Begich who styles himself a PhD (but bought a PhD in homeopathy for $400) were misled to think it was an eeeeeevil weapon.

And all the HAARPs around the world have been involved in Mad Scientist research, that is clearly not healthy for the Earth - and yields minimal helpful research data:

There is only one HAARP. There are other ionospheric heaters. And why is it "unhealthy for the Earth"? And I suspect you don't read Geophysics, because there are thousands of research papers that came from HAARP, and were a lot more than minimal in terms of information.

And beyond all the conspiracy sites, scientists and researchers were genuinely concerned over what was going on with HAARP:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
(2004) HAARP TREMORS BENEATH SAN ANDREAS FAULT TROUBLING SCIENTISTS

exopolitics.blogs.com...
(2001) INDEPENDENT SCIENTIST LEUREN MORET BLAMING HAARP FOR ALL SORT OF ENVIRONMENTAL BADNESS

Your sources say all you need to know. Did you read any of the HAARP threads here? There was a lot of really good, accurate info in them.

As I said earlier, HAARP was shut down in May 2013, supposedly as the groups running it looked for a more careful and discriminating contractor to run it. In the end, HAARP (Alaska) is staying unused, and will be dismantled this year. So clearly the "HAARP conspiracies" added up to more than just crazy, impossible stories ...

Not "more careful and discriminating" at all. The diesels that power the IRI don't meet EPA specs for noise or pollution, and can't easily be made to meet them. And the research that the AF and others had to do wound up, and the scholastic projects weren't going to bring in enough funding to keep it going. The new EISCAT will be a lot more capable.

HAARP (Alaska) had outlived its (expensive) usefulness. And had apparently been mismanaged from when it was the much smaller HIPAS:

www.adn.com...
(May 2014) HAARP GREW TOO LARGE - WITH DUBIOUS "ARTIFICIAL AIR-GLOW" RESEARCH

www.adn.com...
(July 2013) HAARP SHUT DOWN - MAY OR MAY NOT COME BACK

www.adn.com...
(May 2013) ALASKA AURORAL RESEARCHER WITH TIES TO HAARP FACES BIG FINE FOR FRAUD
A former UCLA professor plead guilty to "defrauding the government" with a couple government contracts for work at HIPAS - the prequel to HAARP.

originally posted by: boomer135

I always just ask why is there never a legitimate photo of a "triangle"?

This... and why so many well informed individuals (who shouldn't seemingly be wasting their time on such nonsense) get so interested whenever triangles are mentioned are the 2 main points of investigation IMO

I cant answer the latter but once I get a free couple of hours: I am taking my wireless display enabled flatscreen, Android device and an extension cord into the garden.
I will hoist the monitor into a tree with screen facing down and the Android taped to the rear, webcam the sky with the Tablet, screen cast it back to the display and take some pics to see what my own "of limited mental resources" Optical camo looks like.

originally posted by: MKMoniker
HAARP (Alaska) had outlived its (expensive) usefulness. And had apparently been mismanaged from when it was the much smaller HIPAS:

HIPAS wasn't the same group. It's like saying Olive Gardens is mismanaged because someone robbed the McD's next door. The guy's got nothing at all to do with HAARP.

www.adn.com...
(May 2014) HAARP GREW TOO LARGE - WITH DUBIOUS "ARTIFICIAL AIR-GLOW" RESEARCH


Hmmm...what's the "dubious" part here, other than you don't understand the research? BTW, the reporters at ADN are definitely journo majors: "I was surprised HAARP was powerful enough to manage it, because Radio Luxemburg was a 150 kilowatt transmitter and HAARP only transmits 3.6 megawatts of power." Yah.

www.adn.com...
(May 2013) ALASKA AURORAL RESEARCHER WITH TIES TO HAARP FACES BIG FINE FOR FRAUD
A former UCLA professor plead guilty to "defrauding the government" with a couple government contracts for work at HIPAS - the prequel to HAARP.

He bought office furniture with some HIPAS money. HIPAS and HAARP are vaguely similar devices, but not run by the same groups. And not the same installation. In fact they're not much related at all, other than they're both HF transmitters in Alaska. The other contract of your "couple" was for him charging for production of a betavoltaic battery he didn't produce while he was at UCLA. So, no connection whatever.

Google keyword searches are not your friend.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: jazz10
Watch a video on YouTube
Dr Carol Rosin and listen to what Dr Von Braun disclosed to her in the late 70's early 80's.

Did he tell her on his death bed..."Carol...(coff)...Carol...sound....doesn't...travel...(coff)...in space!" (aaarrgh!)

So if that's the case how are we able to hear the Sun?
Also we as a species don't hear all that is audible....so just because we as a species can't hear it it doesn't exist.


Oh and something else missing from this thread....

IceCube Neutrino Observatory.

originally posted by: jazz10
So if that's the case how are we able to hear the Sun?

We don't.

a reply to: Bedlam
erm........I think you'll find we can.
The HAARP data meters used to give you the option of hearing the sun yet strangely enough the link was removed.
I would ask you to delve in and find any links which allow you to hear the sun.
It almost sounds like its communicating in a sense.
Trust me.......cery weird indeed especially during a cme or other similar events.

originally posted by: jazz10
a reply to: Bedlam
erm........I think you'll find we can..

Show me a site that you feel shows this to your satisfaction. Saves all the "that's not a good one" back and forth.

But no, no you can't "hear" it. There are lots of sites where some aspect of it is translated into sound - generally radio emissions that are received and then turned into some sort of representative sound with enough mods - but you cannot "hear" the Sun, because sound won't travel through a vacuum.

eta: ALL the project's pages are down, AFAIK.

a reply to: Bedlam
I'm not arguing with you over this okey coke. I know what I know and you know what you know. Lets agree to disagree.
Forget I mentioned it.

a reply to: jazz10

You are correct. There are university links where they let you "hear" the sun and other space noise thru their equipment:

solar-center.stanford.edu...
THE SINGING SUN

science.nasa.gov...
NASA SPACECRAFT RECORDS 'EARTHSONG'

www.universetoday.com...
WHAT WOULD A SUPERNOVA SOUND LIKE?

You'd think military projects for space-planes are far ahead of civilian aeronautics. But maybe not ...

spaceflightnow.com...
(Feb. 2015) EUROPEAN SPACE-PLANE FLIES AROUND THE WORLD ON TEST FLIGHT

str.llnl.gov...
BRINGING HYPERSONIC FLIGHT DOWN TO EARTH

www.futuretravelexperience.com...
(2013) VIRGIN GALACTIC: "WE WANT TO TAKE LONG-HAUL AIR TRAVEL ABOVE THE ATMOSPHERE:

originally posted by: MKMoniker
a reply to: jazz10

You are correct. There are university links where they let you "hear" the sun and other space noise thru their equipment:

solar-center.stanford.edu...
THE SINGING SUN

And, as I said, sound doesn't travel through a vacuum. That this isn't common knowledge to, say, a 4th grader, never ceases to amaze me. As I said upthread, all these things are actually something else, radio waves or the like, and modified to sound like something you could hear or which would sound more interesting than a sine wave.

Case in point for this one:

Likewise, astronomers at Stanford University can record acoustical pressure waves in the Sun by carefully tracking movements on the Sun's surface. To do this, they use an instrument called a Michelson Doppler Imager (MDI), mounted on the SOHO spacecraft, circling the Sun 1,000,000 miles from Earth.

Now, as you can see, they're not hearing sound from the sun across space at all. They're looking at the flow of gas on the sun with a Doppler Imager, which will return the velocity of particle movement by looking at the light the gases are emitting. There isn't any sound traversing the space from here to the sun at all. And...

The Sun's sound waves are normally at frequencies too low for the human ear to hear. To be able to hear them, the scientists sped up the waves 42,000 times -- and compressed 40 days of vibrations into a few seconds.

There's the part where they fiddled with it to make it sound interesting. Next example...

science.nasa.gov...
NASA SPACECRAFT RECORDS 'EARTHSONG'

So, let's see what they're actually using as a sound analog, since there won't be any sound in a vacuum...

He's careful to point out that these are not acoustic waves of the kind that travel through the air of our planet. Chorus is made of radio waves that oscillate at acoustic frequencies, between 0 and 10 kHz.

Yep. It's a radio reception. They even pointed out to you it wasn't sound. But you, as always, fail to read the articles, you're just keyword searching. It's really not your friend. Last bad example:

www.universetoday.com...
WHAT WOULD A SUPERNOVA SOUND LIKE?

This one, like the 'earthsong' one above, goes into detail to explain you can't hear sounds in space, and that sound can't cross space, because sound is compression waves in a medium, and in space, you don't have any.

They’re so far apart though, the particles don’t immediately collide with each other allowing a sound wave to pass through a grouping of them.

So, even if you did watch the Death Star explode, you couldn’t hear it. This includes zapping lasers, and exploding rockets...

There’s no sound in space, so you can’t hear what a supernova sounds like.

So, having explained that you have no way to hear such a thing, because it's not sound, they're going to tell you that they made faux sound out of some other analog...

NASA and other space agencies work tirelessly to convert radio, plasma and other activity into a sound pressure format that we can actually hear.

There you go. None of these things are sound. It's other things they turn into sound to make it tech-y for you to perceive, but in a way that really doesn't tell you much. It's to get kids' attention in science. But it's not sound, and your links tell you so.

sometimes its not even worth it anymore bedlam. lol. Too many hard headed people.

a reply to: Bedlam

*squints eyes*

Not sure if you're making fun of our newspaper or not...