Why Dark Matter is Even Weirder Than You Thought

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Hmmm... No definitive positive results on that? Shame if this phenomena isn't caused by a majorana anapole, because that would definitely suggest that the particles would have readily exploitable properties. (Looking at it from an engineering mindset instead of just pure physics.) Not only possible exotic propulsion like I mentioned in my previous post, but applications like remote parts of electronic circuits being able to communicate without direct wiring and stuff. That kind of stuff would be like discovering electricity or nuclear science all over again. If you can both peek and poke such things, you can hack them.

Unless they're missing something. Perhaps passive-only detection would never work. Maybe you need one kind of specialized electromagnet to bring any potential anapoles into alignment, and pulse another magnet immediately afterwards to induce a strong current in the aligned anapolar field (if there) to "illuminate" the particles for detection. However I'm not a physicist, so such an idea is probably crazy as anything else.

Some aspects of the hypothesized particles also remind me of photons (if ignoring the wave-duality and treating it as a particle), in that they seem like what photons would be if moving at a speed relatively low (very near to 0 when compared to c) vs. regular matter. Maybe that idea is wrong too, but it seems there is some sort of information being carried by the existance of this stuff.

Then you have things like speed of light that also seems to have relationships to gravity, electrostatic constant, and permitivity of a vacuum. (Breaking down such formulas or using certain derivitaves find all these constants seem to be part of each other or closely knit in relation.) Dark matter seems to have a particular role in relationship to gravity, so it probably also has a tie-in to all those other things.

i have my own new theory about black matter hope u enjoy...


after reading this i realised we DO have a middle point in our galaxy... (sgt A ??)
wich i think is a previous sun that became gigantic black hole... wich in turn i believe is a gigantic burnt out sun,(stars have many fases and i have an explanation also found for why a blackhole can become a new sun again... its a phase of a cycle) no hole just a black body with a big gravitational force on its srrounding (that cant be seen as it was the source of light itself, everything, if this giant black body is really in our centre of the galaxy... it accounts for the counter balance and dark matter is not needed any longer.... a gigantic black body IS the dark matter in our galaxy thats a counter balance for all matter in our universe to keep it in the galaxy... (the middle point is then our biggest gravitational force)

think a burnt out sun is so black like coles or something it just absorbs light almost completly but not completly.. there is no black hole just a black body... light from the other side of our galaxy gets bend around the coer of our universe wich is a giant giant ex sun now invisible to us but still excerting its gravitationan force on all of the mass in the universe... the middlepoint is a giant black hole wich i think is just a burnt out sun or star..... wich contains ALL the counter balance needed to keep visible mass in our universe... the black hole IS the dark matter all in one sphere...

if light gets bent around the centre of our galaxy... out black hole body.... u would look against a line.... a ring around it.... because the most light would be under an angle against wich you would look...

ah what the heck i will try to explain my new idea about a black hole beeing an ex sun aswell... if a sun is withou fuel or explodes.... it leaves a core but no longer will it have a chemical reaction.. so no visible light is emited (particles wich become light once they enter our atmosphere... i think the difference space into atmosphere ignites the particle into radiating photon (giant friction).... wich gets lighter and lighter and therefore harder to observe... less and less mass as the one photon burns its fuel) and we need the oxygen for a burning effect wich is why we cant see stars and the sun in space directly my guess).

oke so a black body that does not emit particles that can ignite after they reach us, the seed is to low to ignite it in our atmosphere my guess... so.... this giant mass blackened still has a giant gravitaional effect on its surroundings... once it exploded the core might remain wich slowly starts to collect the surrounding particles blown of until it gets bigger again.. once so big it collected alot of the particles its
gravitational force get bigger pressuring the inside of the sfere... pressing so hard it pushes elements or fuses elements into each other creating more heavy elemets... until so hardly pressed the solid material with the particle haze around it might be GAS to space... gas has less density than air.. but space is also a stage i think.... in space more particles floatnig together might be AS a gas to space...

anyways this way once all has burnt... it starts the blackhole fase.. or black body fase again... its all a cycle to me...
have alot more ideas... scientist took some wrong turns..... wrong assumtions and nufortunatly builded further on them is my guess.





oh and the bigbang... probably the explosion in the centre of our galaxy... time started in all directions...
because we are observers living here but only after long time for this galaxy had passe... life start is only
possible in the sun is on modus.... i think..... i think the big bang happened inside space wich was already there...
all the mater got ejected in all sides.. not just a cone shape... the cone shape might come from the light bend (around the centre of our universe wich idicates massive gravity influence...) (and we created time ourselves so the universe dont care about timelines)
or the rotational force of the universes arms...

a reply to: Mastronaut

It takes time, but we'll progress from this dead point we are in, the solution isn't quantum gravity, it's very likely classical. This philosophy of "nature is random" because we don't have a theory that let those parameters emerge rather than being spoon fed is detrimental.

Oh I see now, you're one of those folks still living in the 1920's who believes in the clockwork universe model where everything is completely deterministic and predictable. I'm sorry but the universe is intrinsically probabilistic, there are no hidden variables... and now this thread is going to degrade into an argument about QM in 3, 2, 1...

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Making stuff up isn't a way to solve problems.

dark matter/energy?blackholes?bing bang?E=mc2?

Sigh... how can you possibly group E=mc2 with the rest of those things? The fact that energy is interchangeable with mass has been demonstrated in countless different ways and is absolutely indisputable.

Furthermore scientists didn't just make up dark matter, they made observations which simply didn't make sense without the inclusion of dark matter, they were forced to include it in their models.

One of the reasons I made this thread is because I'm so sick of uniformed armchair skeptics screaming about how scientists just invented this magical thing that doesn't really exist when it clearly does exist.

Maybe it doesn't exist as invisible particles but the data clearly shows there is some type of hidden mass in most galaxies and we need a way to explain that. Weakly interacting particles is the best candidate so far.

Please do note that all things have dark matter in them including us, yes we are expanding with the universe FTW!

what if dark matter is the centre of our universe.... all packed into a giant black body.... we cant see it... (it absorbs most light, the resulting particles are weak in force once they bounce off, they might not have enoug energy to become a foton once it hits our atmosphere ( explaining why we dont see the sun or stars in space directly) the particle comes from space a hits our thicker atmosphere creating friction until its so hot it starts giving of radiation in the form of light there fore losing mass and making them harder to detect)
but the matter is all there therefor excerting its giant massive gravitational force...... we can only observe
the effects of a super massive black hole.. wich i believe is a core left from a sun that became a blackhole..
wich is already demonstrated to be possible with massive suns that they turn into a black hole... i belive a black hole is just a black body.... ive seen foto materials where u can clearly see light bending around it... wich in turn means it does not get sucked in... just absorbed by the super blackened burned inside of the star is my guess...

if a giant black body is in our middle as a counter balance.... this would explain the missing dark matter we seek...
a giant black hole is also demonstrated to be in the middle of our universe... called sgt A or something....
this is the counter balance.... i think it is even the big bang... exploding in al direction starting a timeline once we
got to be concious ( remember we invented time ourselves, the universe did not do this)
i also think we are still growing and expanding, but there might be a threshold where we stop (like a time stop but time is linear we will just start to see shrinkage again.... the blackhole will pull us all back in again in along long time from now.....

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
Seems like some misunderstanding is going on.

Let's take a different tact....

Sagittarius A does not have enough mass to anchor all the matter in our galaxy in place. If not for Dark Matter the galaxy should be a lot smaller in size. If the effects of dark matter could be suddenly turned off, the galaxy would be flinging stars away from it at crazy velocities.

Korg.

The Galaxy itself is a thing and it has mass and bends space just like Sag A even more so on a larger scale. It is the combined gravity of all the mass in a galaxy that holds it together not just the center black hole. The Galaxy itself creates a huge multidimensional hole in space. for all its stuff to reside in. Just like the hole our sun creates allows earth to remain in orbit.

I also would not be surprised if all large mass objects are not connected to each other in the Quantum maybe by worm holes.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Please do note that all things have dark matter in them including us, yes we are expanding with the universe FTW!

Dark energy causes space to expand, not dark matter.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

Please do note that all things have dark matter in them including us, yes we are expanding with the universe FTW!

Dark energy causes space to expand, not dark matter.

Dark energy and matter are part of everything including us, we are expanding with the universe.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

Please do note that all things have dark matter in them including us, yes we are expanding with the universe FTW!

Dark energy causes space to expand, not dark matter.

Dark energy and matter are part of everything including us, we are expanding with the universe.

That is a common misconception which is entirely false. Space is expanding, atoms do not grow or shrink in the process. That's why galaxies around us seem to be moving away from us in all directions we look, the expansion of space is dragging them away from us. But objects such as galaxies stay together due to gravity, it's not like the center of the galaxy is getting further away from our solar system due to the expansion of space because gravity works against dark energy to hold the galaxy in place.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Please do note that all things have dark matter in them including us, yes we are expanding with the universe FTW!

Dark energy causes space to expand, not dark matter.

what if a big bang (centre of our (galaxy) would cause us to expand as a gigantic sun ( the centre of the galaxy must have a waaayyy bigger sun or ex-sun, this would explain why like solar systems entire galaxys get hold together..))that exploded and left a big black core... (bigbang will have been an explision in all dierctions, explaining why we see everythig moving away from us)
it would still have gravitational hold over its matter... (it seems as if normal matter is just matter made visible by our closer normal smaller sun from our solar system or the suns frmo other solar systems)) the core would explain the counter balance or dark matter we seek.... the dark matter is IN the black hole.. and a black hole is just a black body that absorbs light,its not a hole i think... dark energy... how should i see dark energy.. as invisible energy? as in gravitational pull?

a reply to: dennisarends

As I explained to intrptr on the first page, any system with most of the mass at the center should have a rotational curve which drops off proportional to the distance. Your theory explains absolutely nothing about why that flat rotational curve exists. It doesn't matter if it's a black hole or black body at the center of the galaxy, the same rules apply.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: dennisarends

As I explained to intrptr on the first page, any system with most of the mass at the center should have a rotational curve which drops off proportional to the distance. Your theory explains absolutely nothing about why that flat rotational curve exists. It doesn't matter if it's a black hole or black body at the center of the galaxy, the same rules apply.

we do see spiral arms.... the outer rims seem slower.... further from centre is slower.....
less hot probably so less atomic energies.... i think the normal sun we have now.... its particles bombarding us is
what started the rotation in our solar system... the core or sun here has a push from this, the pull is from the gravity is my guess...
if the sun is a giant high pressure area where all matter or particles must leave from.... space is cold...... then our atmosphere layer might act as a looking glass heating us up inside... what i find strange is we move so fast around the sun hpw can uor atmosphere be a perfect sphere and not a tail like thing beeing dragged behind us... anyways thank you for your time i will think more about this then..

my initial guess it has to do with the pressure of the main gravitational force in any area of space....
we cant measure how dense it is packed inside our solar systems sun or our glaxy sun wich i suspect still is a black hole...
there must be an explanation why there is no difference but the spiral arms seem a good factor...
the more the distance from the middle the less fast it moves.. it catches less sun light (incomming particles from sun) so less energy gets
put into the movement of the sun.... the gravitational pull keeps is in orbit of the sun i think...
if the sun shines less bright... les energies we would rotate below the equator of the sun, if the sun was brighter and more energetic i gues we cuold fly off if the force was bigger than the pull from the sun...... i wonder if resistance has been thought of... the resistance between our atmosphere and space itself might be the reason we miss seconds every year....

originally posted by: dennisarends

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: dennisarends

As I explained to intrptr on the first page, any system with most of the mass at the center should have a rotational curve which drops off proportional to the distance. Your theory explains absolutely nothing about why that flat rotational curve exists. It doesn't matter if it's a black hole or black body at the center of the galaxy, the same rules apply.

we do see spiral arms.... the outer rims seem slower.... further from centre is slower.....

Yes but it's no where near slow enough. In some galaxies you actually find it gets faster further out.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: dennisarends

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: dennisarends

As I explained to intrptr on the first page, any system with most of the mass at the center should have a rotational curve which drops off proportional to the distance. Your theory explains absolutely nothing about why that flat rotational curve exists. It doesn't matter if it's a black hole or black body at the center of the galaxy, the same rules apply.

we do see spiral arms.... the outer rims seem slower.... further from centre is slower.....

Yes but it's no where near slow enough. In some galaxies you actually find it gets faster further out.

yes there is also alot of things we need to consider at the same time... like density and such... we know so little and there are many variables.. could you maybe help thinking with me along my lines of thinking u seem very smart..
is there a way in your mind my theory DOES work? that would get us closer good thing u keep putting stones on my road man lets make some progress sorry i joined late in this discussion only tring to help




if it gets faster out... this would suggest... an even bigger influence in the area.. you talk about galaxys...
im thinking one step bigger i guess ( the system or middlepoint that spews out galaxys).... all the galaxys together have a middle point i think.... if different galaxy have different speeds thats totally possible, theres different sizes of suns and different pressure factors
if a planet got sped up and left orbit from our solar system it would probably get cought in another massive objects pull....

and again sorry if i come across stupid to you hahah


the speed variance may also be due to sunlight blokkage in the outer rims of the spiral arm, theres an angle if u would look from the middle you look into a wall wich actually curves.... so behind that there is less energy getting thrue may be an idea...
this wuold explain the faster aswell, it all depends on your locality in space...





i know read back and i think i know what u mean by the spread.... what if the universe its centre had such a gigantic gravitanional field.... we are just starting to level out.. the further away the less gravitational pull.... its in a sphere shape so different spots on the same axis and distance from the middle in any direction should have about the same speeds.... we also might not even have reached
with the matter that is the outer reaches of the pull from the centre... i think the more it drifts off the less speed we should have
i think our space from our cone or bigbang then might be blending with the already present space....
and already present space is relativly still space... once the ejection speed start to normalise the more influence another heavenly body
can exert on this space... wouw...


the middle of the curve seems to suggest the gravitational pull.. once the pull gets less.... the influence gets less....
this is where regional space start influencing the moving from the middle space more and more... including all its objects...


had a little tought about neutrino's aswell, it is all necesarry to incorporate sorry

ofcourse neutrinos dont get spotted often... most incomming particles that hit our atmoshere.. start to radiate as light inside our atmosphere... again i think this is because of the difference between space and the thicker earths atmosphere.... it clashes on the atmosphere and ignites in an oxygen rich area, oxygen is needed to burn.. so neutrino's are not found alot because most of them
become fotons... thats why they only are able to catch them deep under the ground... they seem to have a penetrating power... but once they move into the earth.. they can not radiate anymore, in the earth where it can not burn.... this is why they can only find neutrino's deep underground or in space (and are highly uncommon to find for us on earth)... in space we dont see stars or the sun directly, this would explain that fenomenon... the sun might eject so many neutrino's that it forces planets in our solar system to move is my theory... but even bigger.... is if there was a blackhole in the centre of our universe...... like i think there must be....

a reply to: dennisarends

is there a way in your mind my theory DOES work?

No not really, the rotation curves can really only be explained by saying that the force of gravity pulling objects towards the center of the galaxy increases as you move away from the galactic core. But how on Earth is that possible when we clearly know that gravity gets weaker as you move away from the object causing the pull? The only realistic solution is some sort of dark matter halo. You have to imagine the halo as if it were like a huge planet. If you dig a huge hole in the Earth you will find that the force of gravity pulling you towards the center of the Earth is decreasing as you move down the hole.

As you move away from the galactic core you're moving further towards the edge of the halo, which is equivalent to climbing back out of the hole. As you move closer towards the surface of Earth the force of gravity increases. So as you move away from the galactic core the force between you and the galactic core decreases, but the force between you and the dark matter halo increases. The change in those two forces tend to correlate with each other quite nicely so that the force remains the same through large distances and the result is a relatively flat rotation curve.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: dennisarends

is there a way in your mind my theory DOES work?

No not really, the rotation curves can really only be explained by saying that the force of gravity pulling objects towards the center of the galaxy increases as you move away from the galactic core. But how on Earth is that possible when we clearly know that gravity gets weaker as you move away from the object causing the pull? The only realistic solution is some sort of dark matter halo. You have to imagine the halo as if it were like a planet. If you dig a huge hole in the Earth you will find that the force of gravity pulling you towards the center of the Earth is decreasing. As you move away from the galactic core you're moving further towards the edge of the halo, which is equivalent to climbing back out of the hole. As you move closer towards the surface of Earth the force of gravity increases. So as you move away from the galactic core the force between you and the galactic core decreases, but the force between you and the dark matter halo increases, those two forces tend to cancel each other out quite nicely and the result is a flat rotation curve.

the higher we fly the less pull we experience... i think if we went inside the earth... the pull would only get bigger.... more pressure there.... but the universal arms are in a dragging curve... if the middlepoint of the universe was a blackhole.... sending particles pushing all matter they would get blocked by the curve of the arms at some point...
the middle of the curve of the picture seems to show us the distance where the gravitaional pull ends..... if we cross that distance... we get more and more influenced by different more local object like the space we know is blending with space already there..... i think measured from the centre a certain distance should have mostly the same effect (in all directions from the origin point on the same distance, UNLESS it has a blend of space beacause of the distance where the pull does not work, and local gravity takes over))
theres a balance created by many things like pressure density mass..... the equations dont exist yet... because nobody has thought along these lines maybe...


im thinking of a carousel right now... seats on a line... the faster it moves... the more in line with the horizon you will be....
if earth moved slower.... we would hang on a rope below the suns horizon... if speed would increase we would hang above the suns horizon line..... if the input of force...... tso gravity might be 2 effect we combine.... 1 is the push ( particles beeing ejected fro the suns high pressure area ( very hot they need to get away...) but on the other hand the gravitation pulls us back in again.... its a balance counter balance thing ) if the force of particles gets blocked of... again i guess that would have a big influence on the speeds of objects..
its not strange it could vary to me...... again mass of the dominant gravitaty object (pressure,heat, density ).... speed (pull, distance decides the force).... friction( distance from the middle... the exact gravitational force.. ( the pull strength) the matter streams (push)
i think we are missing peaces of the puzzle still before i can demonstrate this easily

ill get there one day

a reply to: dennisarends

the higher we fly the less pull we experience... i think if we went inside the earth... the pull would only get bigger.... more pressure there....

Yes the force pulling us towards Earth gets weaker as we move away, which is why we should expect the force pulling on objects in a galaxy to get weaker as you move away from the galactic core, but the observations tell us that's not the case, the force remains stable out to great distances.

However if you move into the Earth the force does get weaker for two reasons: firstly there is less mass between you and the center of the Earth, secondly the mass above you is actually pulling in the opposite way. Even if you reached the center of the Earth you would be pulled back towards the surface.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: dennisarends

the higher we fly the less pull we experience... i think if we went inside the earth... the pull would only get bigger.... more pressure there....

Yes the force pulling us towards Earth gets weaker as we move away, which is why we should expect the force pulling on objects in a galaxy to get weaker as you move away from the galactic core, but the observations tell us that's not the case, the force remains stable out to great distances.

However if you move into the Earth the force does get weaker for two reasons: firstly there is less mass between you and the center of the Earth, secondly the mass above you is actually pulling in the opposite way. Even if you reached the center of the Earth you would be pulled back towards the surface.

im looking at this very differenly sorry its in my mind the same as with water.... the deeper you go... the more water above you.... same goes for earth is my guess.. but we really didnt go realy deep yet is my guess....
i think if i reach the centre of the earth i get crushed into it.... thats why theres many heavy elements in the earth (metals fused together by pressure aswell)... diamanonds get formed there under pressure.... pressure is heat..... cos atoms have less space to move they touch eachothers outer rims more often and create fricional warmth....

a reply to: dennisarends

Yes you would be crushed by the pressure at the center of the Earth, but pressure is a completely different thing from gravity. Your crushed lump of flesh would still be subject to the force of gravity.