Disability and Welfare

I know a lot about disability. There are a lot of checks and balances and hoops to jump through for someone to become certified as disabled, and there are constant check-ups - not to mention getting the most of your benefits is something you need a lawyer for. Someone who is disabled is likely going to deserve getting the meager monthly payment because they are not able to get work easily.

These benefits come with some medical benefits as well, and some social services like counseling and a psychiatrist. In addition, there are food banks that offer food and food stamps (that are also well-regulated, despite Fox News reports on the contrary) and one can shop for clothes at Goodwill or somewhere similar - and use the public transit system instead of having a car. Last but not least, there is affordable housing (which has a long waiting list and is usually a small apartment) which allows the small budget to function, otherwise the person in question would need to be living with relatives or room-mates or on the street.

If someone gets a job on disability, then they start losing their disability money at a rate based on how much they are earning. If they earn $2000 a month or more, they will get no more disability funding. Remember, this is for someone who is not able to work, therefore once they are able to reach that point they don't need assistance anymore and will likely lose their affordable housing as well.

I think that this system is fair, because if someone is truly unable to work (and it is very hard to get certified as disabled, so unless the person is an outright con artist this is probably likely) they are likely not getting enough money to do much besides (possibly) pay their bills, but with creative spending it is okay, plus there is the possibility of a part-time job, which might be easier for the person to afford.

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So - I know a lot about disability and I think the system is fair, if not hard on the disabled person who isn't resourceful. I understand there are people on here who don't think disabled people should be fed, and these same people consider themselves Christians. It goes beyond the scope of my understanding.

What I don't understand much about is welfare. From what I gather, people were rounded up and put into projects (really compact apartment buildings) that quickly deteriorated into slums and none of them can get jobs for some reason. I am guessing that it could be related to education, and that there are barriers in the social lives of people on welfare keeping them from getting a better education, but that is only a guess.

I have also heard that welfare keeps people from getting work experience because they don't need to work.

I really don't know much about it. I know people who are on disability, and they all seem to be in fair situations, but no one who is on welfare.

Does anyone here know about the welfare system? How it works?

a reply to: darkbake

I mostly know the Disability side of it as well, however there is a major barrier to coming off welfare: you lose benefits when you start work. It is next to impossible for someone to earn enough on minimum or low paying jobs to have their kids taken care of and pay all their bills. This is the main flaw I see. You either remain poor OR somehow take a giant step forward into a full living wage.

I think there is much that could be done to make this a safety net, not a life sentence.

a reply to: AboveBoard

That is a major problem I hear about with welfare. I hear that if someone gets a starting wage, which only makes sense, they suddenly lose their benefits and are unable to pay rent and support themselves and their family.

Since it is only reasonable that one would start with a low wage job and work their way up, it seems like there is a dangerous fiscal cliff that would be hard to overcome.

I think there should be graduated benefits based on one's income like what disability does, so that someone could earn a bit of money and lose a bit of welfare (less than the amount earned). This way they can slowly work their way to getting off, all the while reaping the benefits of work.

a reply to: darkbake

If the half of the work force making poverty wages, applied and got accepted for disability, that combined with good stamps free healthcare and the other benefits, like them paying your childsuppirt for you.

They would live quite a bit better than they to right now.

And they wouldn't even have to work.

Which is why there are more people on disability right per capita than ever.

Why work when you can claim to have one if many "impairments" where you aren't even really impaired,
But can live better than half the people in this country at work.

Bipolar, extreme ADHD, extreme obesity, a great range of mental defects.....

Hell I bet most of us could get it if we tried.

My point is there are a great many folks on disability that can and should be working not mooching.

And disability should not pay better than minimum wage.

A stocker at Walmart still has to pay his own medical and child support, anyone on disability doesn't.

Disability pays $800 per month cash.

Minimum wage pays about $1,000. But then you still have to deduct child support and medical insurance.

Making minimum wage for someone with 2 kids pay far less than disability.

Our entire system is completely broken, from top to bottom.

It will be cloward piven soon.

Can't believe it has come to this.

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: AboveBoard

That is a major problem I hear about with welfare. I hear that if someone gets a starting wage, which only makes sense, they suddenly lose their benefits and are unable to pay rent and support themselves and their family.

Since it is only reasonable that one would start with a low wage job and work their way up, it seems like there is a dangerous fiscal cliff that would be hard to overcome.

I think there should be graduated benefits based on one's income like what disability does, so that someone could earn a bit of money and lose a bit of welfare (less than the amount earned). This way they can slowly work their way to getting off, all the while reaping the benefits of work.

If you don't work and have 3 kids you can get free child care over $800 a month in food stamps. Free child healthcare, and free housing.

If you start making minimum wage, you will get about $400 in food stamps and still have the rest of the benefits.

If you have no kids at minimum wage.

You get about $15 a month in food stamps.

It is dismall.

If I made minimum wage I would just file for disability.

The welfare and disability systems were set-up under the assumption that once you start working you could fully house, feed and provide medical care for your family and usually have a little left over. This was true from about 1940 to 1980.

Of course it's not true now. Not providing a living wage causes all sorts of issues and dealing with people on disability is just one of them.

originally posted by: Daughter2
The welfare and disability systems were set-up under the assumption that once you start working you could fully house, feed and provide medical care for your family and usually have a little left over. This was true from about 1940 to 1980.

Of course it's not true now. Not providing a living wage causes all sorts of issues and dealing with people on disability is just one of them.

Quoted for accuracy

originally posted by: Daughter2
The welfare and disability systems were set-up under the assumption that once you start working you could fully house, feed and provide medical care for your family and usually have a little left over. This was true from about 1940 to 1980.

Of course it's not true now. Not providing a living wage causes all sorts of issues and dealing with people on disability is just one of them.

Having been clinically diagnosed with severe depression and general anxiety disorder I was told I could qualify for disability, as it would be very difficult for me to hold down a "normal" 9-5 job. Fortunately for me though I was able to build a small business, a one man show if you will, that provides me with a modest living. Some days I just can't do it so I don't, but I always bounce back.

If that changes it is nice to know that there is a safety net there to catch me. Although I hope I never need it.

It doesn't pay out much here (Canada) but you would have a roof over your head and some grub in the fridge. Perhaps it was the way I was raised but I feel that is more than fair.


*Edit*

After reading some of the thoughts above, I think where the true problem lies is that minimum wage doesn't really "pay" more than social services once all the various subsidies are factored in. Anyone who works a 40 hour week deserves a half decent living, and since many of the economies of the world have been corporatized, this isn't the case.

People get to Welfare in a ton of ways. If you take the time to get to know the stories you quickly realize these people are simply the ones that missed out on a solid foundation in life or slipped through the medical 'cracks' and have problems that aren't diagnosed or yet considered a 'disability'.

It becomes accustomed to them to live in that manner. It's simple survival really. Despite all the programming to 'get ahead' and 'work hard' not everyone is going to agree to do that as well. When a country has hundreds of millions of people some are bound to be very different.

How to help people with 'welfare' is heavily researched around the world. There are many approaches, some being pretty radical compared to the US approach. It's a worthy topic.

I can only speak about here in my state. But this is how it went for me.
I had to leave my husband. I was lucky, and got into HUD townhouses, in a small town. So the rent was based on my income. I got on assistance. I had two small boys.
First, my goal was to get off assistance. That seemed to be a serious issue with many of the single moms that lived where I did. Not many had much ambition to better themselves.
I found an ad in the paper for training for low income people. (Computer basics.)
I took the class. I think it was about 6 months?
Anyway, I started looking for a job. I did get lucky in finding one with a small company just getting started, that was very family oriented.
So, as I worked, I did loose some benefits, but actually gained others, in the way of child care costs. But within a year, and with help from the low income housing, I was only receiving aid in the form of child care assistance. I really wasn't making very much, but enough to get us by. Within 2 years, no help at all, but doing ok.

The whole point of welfare is a hand up, not a hand out. The problem lies in those that just want to take the easy road.
Personally, I couldn't do it. I had worked from the age of 15, and it made me want more.

Columnist Jason Riley has an excellent article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about how welfare destroyed the black family. It is the 50th anniversary of liberal Democrat Senator Daniel Moynihan's paper where he warned that the liberal welfare polices developed in the 60s would destroy the black family and have grave consequences. He was roundly criticized at the time, however, we now have 50 years of data showing he was absolutely correct.

The crux of the issue is that welfare creates disincentives by penalizing someone for working and in the case of the black family, it pushed black fathers out of the home (you can't receive benefits if you are married). The out of wedlock birth rate for blacks was only about 20% in the 60s, but now is above 70%. Welfare created the "baby mama" culture that is devastating the black community.

My husband and I are both on disability. We don't get food stamps or cheap housing or anything for free. They make you wait 2 years to get medical and that isn't full coverage so you do have to pay for that once you get medical.

As for welfare, there are too many people who can't afford a child yet have one after another to get and stay on welfare. I have seen plenty of that. You have drug addicts and alcoholics on welfare too. They chose that life style for themselves. There are of course people who genuinely need and deserve the welfare.

a reply to: chiefsmom

I applaud you for wanting more for your family and bettering yourself when others are content to keep reaping benefits when they are perfectly capable of working.

originally posted by: Daughter2
The welfare and disability systems were set-up under the assumption that once you start working you could fully house, feed and provide medical care for your family and usually have a little left over. This was true from about 1940 to 1980.

Of course it's not true now. Not providing a living wage causes all sorts of issues and dealing with people on disability is just one of them.

I agree with this. People who are working 40 hour weeks should have an increase in pay - enough to earn a decent living.

People used to work in factories and the like and they were still able to afford to buy a house and feed a family of four, with only one parent working.

a reply to: Night Star

Thank you.

My mom and dad get most of the credit, for instilling that in me. I'm thankful it stuck.

That, and the fact that some of the stuff I saw and heard while living there, honestly boggled my mind. Mind you, most were honest, just perhaps a bit lazy.

But some? Holly crap. Running scams at big stores, stealing big items with a return scam, threatening other people living there, it was like scamming was a full time job. If they just would have put that "creativity" (for lack of a nice word) to better use, they probably could have been off assistance in no time.

I collect disability I have paranoid schizophrenia. I spent 10 years working before I went on disability. I was making close to $50k a year when I was working. Disability pay depends on work credits which you get by working. The more credits you have the more you get. It took me 6 years to get disability. In the process I lost everything I had. I get roughly $850 a month. I use to get food stamps but I lost them at the beginning of the year. I was told by social services that I make too much money. When working on disability your only aloud to make $3500 a year anything more and you can lose your disability.

Personally I hate being on disability. I hate living as a second class citizen which in this country if your don't have money thats what you are. Trying to survive on $10k a year sucks.

If you don't have work credits there is a minimum that disabled people get. I think it's somewhere around $600 a month. My aunt gets disability she had cancer and she gets around $1100 a month. She worked her entire life though and is 60 years old.

a reply to: darkbake

Welfare= the path of least resistance or human nature.

It was once supposed be help to get you back on your feet when you had children to take care off, now people have children just to stay on it and then the children follow in the parents foot steps.

Now the politicians have figured out how to build there whole base by just requiring a vote "for me and I will set you free"...and with cash and a phone in your pockets.

Sorry for being so cynical.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Columnist Jason Riley has an excellent article in the Wall Street Journal this morning about how welfare destroyed the black family. It is the 50th anniversary of liberal Democrat Senator Daniel Moynihan's paper where he warned that the liberal welfare polices developed in the 60s would destroy the black family and have grave consequences. He was roundly criticized at the time, however, we now have 50 years of data showing he was absolutely correct.

The crux of the issue is that welfare creates disincentives by penalizing someone for working and in the case of the black family, it pushed black fathers out of the home (you can't receive benefits if you are married). The out of wedlock birth rate for blacks was only about 20% in the 60s, but now is above 70%. Welfare created the "baby mama" culture that is devastating the black community.

A fantastic interview, thanks for mentioning this.

Jason Riley - Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make it Harder for Blacks to Succeed

a reply to: Battleline

That was my thought about welfare, combined with what was mentioned earlier about how it is built to keep people on it and make it nearly impossible to get off it.

I'm all for helping out the poor, too ... but there is another good point made in this thread about how black families were affected because the incentives were there for single mothers, not families... it seems like the welfare system could be fixed a little bit. But like I said in the O.P., I still don't know much about how it works... that was the reason I wrote this thread...

I think disability is handled well. SNAP benefits seem to be reasonable and I think they are useful to help a struggling individual or family.

I just wish I didn't have the disabilities and diseases in the first place, very few of us plan this for ourselves.