Man could face jail time for not paying child support for boy that isn’t his

originally posted by: Unity_99
a reply to: infinityorder

What you just described is illegal and criminal and if it was me, I'd take the actual judge and signatures on this unlawful decision to court and sue their asses off, and turn them into the police station for crimes, research and find exactly what crimes and ensure they were tormented until real justice was done.

You can't allow injustice to stand or you're handing this crime to your children. We have to clean up the messes however long it takes, and not hand the mess to our children.

This is not being said because I think you're doing anything wrong in the least, more in the spirit that people need to sit down and find solutions and bring it out in the open and find the legal way to take out the rogue criminal judges and elements in this system.

No offense taken.

I have tried though.

But I lack the financial ability to do anything about it.

Sure we could live off roman for years so I could afford a lawyer....but let's be honest.

The lawmakers know exactly what they passed.

They don't care, because they can afford a lawyer if it happens to them.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
America just cannot seem to implement reasonable laws like the rest of the western and north Europe can.

What country are you from and how much taxes do you pay for all that Gov support?

Sweden
Direct tax on salary 31%, 25% vat on most things we buy. More when you add the pension money that the corporations have to pay above our salary. If you have a higher salary the tax jumps up.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Spider879

I read what you wrote but I still don't understand, your child is living with you correct? so who get the money for Child support, your X ?

You understood just fine.....i am in a similar situation (different country im in Australia) i have my son fulltime,the system took him away from his mother and i got him out into my custody.....according to child support i owe her money and she does not have to pay me ....if you can figure that crap out i will be impressed

Should change my post to US and Australia it seems. That is so screwed up.

yes it is...the system is broken and has been for quite some time.....Get this (child services known here as docs) had no protocol in place for returning my son to me...not only did i have to fight the system to get him once the decision was made they didnt know what to do or how to do it.....and as far as child support goes those idiots are working from the same script

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Spider879

I read what you wrote but I still don't understand, your child is living with you correct? so who get the money for Child support, your X ?

You understood just fine.....i am in a similar situation (different country im in Australia) i have my son fulltime,the system took him away from his mother and i got him out into my custody.....according to child support i owe her money and she does not have to pay me ....if you can figure that crap out i will be impressed

Should change my post to US and Australia it seems. That is so screwed up.

yes it is...the system is broken and has been for quite some time.....Get this (child services known here as docs) had no protocol in place for returning my son to me...not only did i have to fight the system to get him once the decision was made they didnt know what to do or how to do it.....and as far as child support goes those idiots are working from the same script

Lol...

Sounds like we are both the "lucky" recipients of govs tender mercies.

No matter how retarded it sounds, they still do it blindly.

What ever happened to common sense?

Did it ever exist, or is it just fairy tail we believe used to exist?

Have a brew bro...it will likely not get better, I just hope it doesn't get worse.

a reply to: infinityorder

Infinity , fellow Aussie here and one in a very similar situation to you it would seem . In my case the mother just declared that we had come to a private arrangement and all was good . We have been separated for 6 years but have lived together for 90 percent of that time .

Sorry got my posters mixed up , this should have been a reply to hopenotfear .

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Spider879

I read what you wrote but I still don't understand, your child is living with you correct? so who get the money for Child support, your X ?

You understood just fine.....i am in a similar situation (different country im in Australia) i have my son fulltime,the system took him away from his mother and i got him out into my custody.....according to child support i owe her money and she does not have to pay me ....if you can figure that crap out i will be impressed

Should change my post to US and Australia it seems. That is so screwed up.

yes it is...the system is broken and has been for quite some time.....Get this (child services known here as docs) had no protocol in place for returning my son to me...not only did i have to fight the system to get him once the decision was made they didnt know what to do or how to do it.....and as far as child support goes those idiots are working from the same script

Lol...

Sounds like we are both the "lucky" recipients of govs tender mercies.

No matter how retarded it sounds, they still do it blindly.

What ever happened to common sense?

Did it ever exist, or is it just fairy tail we believe used to exist?

Have a brew bro...it will likely not get better, I just hope it doesn't get worse.

So it would seem....as far as common sense goes it is simply not needed when the script is written for you...

As it turns out i am lucky...... i am the only parent in this area to have taken a child back out of the system in some 20 years...hence why they did not know what to do....

i will cross my fingers as i say this but it really cannot get worse.....the department is no longer involved,my boy is with me it has been signed off by a judge ...so that should be the end of it at least from a government point of view...obviously it is not that simple as mum is still involved and can cause dramas but her input is limited...

cheers bro i am enjoying some liquid gold as we speak

originally posted by: Spider879
Ladies I would like to get your perspective on this, not putting you on the hot seat or anything and you don't have to agree or disagree is there an angle we maybe missing.

Okie doke, you wanted a woman's opinion & I'll give you one.

I disapprove of the current American child support system entirely. For starters, it ends up driving so many garnished people into dire straits financially that, IMO, we're simply trading government assistance for children for government assistance for the paying adult. I'm willing to bet in all likelihood that the number of programs a person paying child support has to utilize to bridge their garnished income gap is more costly in the long run than programs utilized for kids are. I may be wrong here, but it is a hunch I'm willing to bet on.

My parents are divorced, and both fought quite hard to have the child support order dropped. I was dragged along for a few hearings, and got to hear my mom's (the custodial parent) opinion on it. In her words, she had a job, and did not need my dad's money. The judge tried making him pay $2k a month for CS (in the mid-90's, that was a ton back then) Eventually, after several months of hearings and him having to actually pay that, the reduced it by half. My mom still protested that it was excessive, unfair & unnecessary. The judge didn't care, she (yeah, a woman. Something I find to be a conflict of interest in CS cases) insisted a grand & no lower. She'd also tried to talk my mom into filing for alimony, to which I remember her very sharp reply: "Do I look like a gold digger to you??"

What my parents did to get around the unwanted CS order was simple & in hindsight, sneaky. My mom cashed the checks, and gave it right back to my dad in her own check. She never took a dime from him that wasn't actually critically needed that her own income didn't cover (like a surprise high bill, or home/car repair) They actually acted like adults about divorce, and didn't try to rob the other blind, they were mature & responsible about it. I really admire both of them for such an amicable split (my dad cheated, but the split was extremely civil & they remained on excellent terms) And not only that, they didn't use money against each other. The days of stand-up Americans are looong gone, and what we have is people who'll backstab the crap out of each other because the government lets them and puts less emphasis on personal responsibility like past generations did. No one cares about maintaining amicable relationships post-divorce and still raising the offspring anymore. A government garnishment order is all anyone thinks about now, ex-spouse be damned, gimme gimme gimme in terms of money reigns. I think the system should either be abolished & restructured, or amended to limit support to a utility or two. No one should be able to sit on their ass and live off the ex-spouse's money. Ever. That's as unjustifiable as being the fabled welfare whore is (which isn't easy by any means, CS whores are more common & should be just as frowned upon)
If you want to have primary or full custody, then holding a job to pay for it should be a no-brainer. Not how you're going to drive the ex into poverty with a gavel slam.

Just my opinion as a woman.

a reply to: Spider879

This was an official document she signed saying he was the father right . Lying on such documents can not be legal there right . Also can he not sue her somehow , she lied now he is out of pocket . And for a kid that is not his .

a reply to: Nyiah
Thanks for your opinion Nyiah.
Respect!
This is much inline with the majority opinion here, the law can unthinkingly overreach to the point of being absurd,even when the potential aggrieved party said NO! such actions/payola is unnecessary, the Gov said TAKE IT ! damn what both parties want,so who the hell are they helping?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
America just cannot seem to implement reasonable laws like the rest of the western and north Europe can.

What country are you from and how much taxes do you pay for all that Gov support?

While taxes are an issue it is nothing compared to what we have in the US done to the constitution. Child support is in no way compliant to American Ideals. It is worse than socialism in its disregard for liberty. Debtor prisons? By intervening in the family the government crosses the largest boundaries laid out by Locke, Roseau, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin etc. Family court should not exist anywhere. Domestic violence is no different than criminal violence. The person presses charges or not. Your proven guilty or if there is not enough evidence or history you are not. If you can't work it out with your other than shape up, find friends and family and work it out. The state will never have enough resource to make sense of family complexity and really its your personal responsibility which is what liberty is about.

Its not ideal but at least European socialist leaning idealism protects the situations that fall in the cracks. People abuse it but not even a tenth of the US family court abuses by mad spouses.

If the US really had low taxes, liberty, freedom, upward mobility for all willing to work etc then I see your point but, its just a fallacy. The taxes are all around the US they just don't get called that all the time.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Spider879

This was an official document she signed saying he was the father right . Lying on such documents can not be legal there right . Also can he not sue her somehow , she lied now he is out of pocket . And for a kid that is not his .

True, I see your point about the government's illegal actions here, the very documentation is a lie.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Nyiah
Thanks for your opinion Nyiah.
Respect!

This is much inline with the majority opinion here, the law can unthinkingly overreach to the point of being absurd,even when the potential aggrieved party said NO! such actions/payola is unnecessary, the Gov said TAKE IT ! damn what both parties want,so who the hell are they helping?

Precisely. This kind of government strong-arming helps absolutely no one when it's unwanted. Mandatory CS is excessive & over-reaching. If a system like this is to exist to help people, it should only be a voluntary one. Those who do not want support don't need to go through the hoops, while those who do want it can. But never mandatory, that takes away from a split couple's ability to work out their own balance themselves. My parents found a work-around and went with it, but it was still unnecessary to have to do it under the government's pressure.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Spider879

This was an official document she signed saying he was the father right . Lying on such documents can not be legal there right . Also can he not sue her somehow , she lied now he is out of pocket . And for a kid that is not his .

True, I see your point about the government's illegal actions here, the very documentation is a lie.

I don't think he was referring to government lying but rather the mother of the child lying on the welfare document and birth certificate.
Are there any lawyers on here that could clear this up ?
You would think that not only would the father have the right to sue but also the system for any payments she received from falsifing the documents.

Men are continually being ripped off by women who claim that they are the fathers to their child. A HUGE percentage of women don't care if the 'real' father brings up their child. They will lie to get what suits them.
I hate to think just how many men the world over are raising children that they believe are theirs when in fact they are not.
In doing this, women are denying the chidren to the right of access to their true family. Women that do this and are caught should be imprisoned IMO.

originally posted by: sayzaar

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Spider879

This was an official document she signed saying he was the father right . Lying on such documents can not be legal there right . Also can he not sue her somehow , she lied now he is out of pocket . And for a kid that is not his .

True, I see your point about the government's illegal actions here, the very documentation is a lie.

I don't think he was referring to government lying but rather the mother of the child lying on the welfare document and birth certificate.
Are there any lawyers on here that could clear this up ?
You would think that not only would the father have the right to sue but also the system for any payments she received from falsifing the documents.

Yes the document she signed is a lie, which is a government document accepted and used against the non father.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Spider879

I read what you wrote but I still don't understand, your child is living with you correct? so who get the money for Child support, your X ?

You understood just fine.....i am in a similar situation (different country im in Australia) i have my son fulltime,the system took him away from his mother and i got him out into my custody.....according to child support i owe her money and she does not have to pay me ....if you can figure that crap out i will be impressed

Should change my post to US and Australia it seems. That is so screwed up.

yes it is...the system is broken and has been for quite some time.....Get this (child services known here as docs) had no protocol in place for returning my son to me...not only did i have to fight the system to get him once the decision was made they didnt know what to do or how to do it.....and as far as child support goes those idiots are working from the same script

Lol...

Sounds like we are both the "lucky" recipients of govs tender mercies.

No matter how retarded it sounds, they still do it blindly.

What ever happened to common sense?

Did it ever exist, or is it just fairy tail we believe used to exist?

Have a brew bro...it will likely not get better, I just hope it doesn't get worse.

So it would seem....as far as common sense goes it is simply not needed when the script is written for you...

As it turns out i am lucky...... i am the only parent in this area to have taken a child back out of the system in some 20 years...hence why they did not know what to do....

i will cross my fingers as i say this but it really cannot get worse.....the department is no longer involved,my boy is with me it has been signed off by a judge ...so that should be the end of it at least from a government point of view...obviously it is not that simple as mum is still involved and can cause dramas but her input is limited...

cheers bro i am enjoying some liquid gold as we speak

Just got home from the second job when I hit page 2..... Enjoying some myself...and a turkey potpie....these things were sent from god himself I swear.

Beer and potpies at 2 am my time...by 3 it is bed for a couple hours before I gotta get the kiddos up for school.

Be well

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Spider879
Ladies I would like to get your perspective on this, not putting you on the hot seat or anything and you don't have to agree or disagree is there an angle we maybe missing.

Okie doke, you wanted a woman's opinion & I'll give you one.

I disapprove of the current American child support system entirely. For starters, it ends up driving so many garnished people into dire straits financially that, IMO, we're simply trading government assistance for children for government assistance for the paying adult. I'm willing to bet in all likelihood that the number of programs a person paying child support has to utilize to bridge their garnished income gap is more costly in the long run than programs utilized for kids are. I may be wrong here, but it is a hunch I'm willing to bet on.

My parents are divorced, and both fought quite hard to have the child support order dropped. I was dragged along for a few hearings, and got to hear my mom's (the custodial parent) opinion on it. In her words, she had a job, and did not need my dad's money. The judge tried making him pay $2k a month for CS (in the mid-90's, that was a ton back then) Eventually, after several months of hearings and him having to actually pay that, the reduced it by half. My mom still protested that it was excessive, unfair & unnecessary. The judge didn't care, she (yeah, a woman. Something I find to be a conflict of interest in CS cases) insisted a grand & no lower. She'd also tried to talk my mom into filing for alimony, to which I remember her very sharp reply: "Do I look like a gold digger to you??"

What my parents did to get around the unwanted CS order was simple & in hindsight, sneaky. My mom cashed the checks, and gave it right back to my dad in her own check. She never took a dime from him that wasn't actually critically needed that her own income didn't cover (like a surprise high bill, or home/car repair) They actually acted like adults about divorce, and didn't try to rob the other blind, they were mature & responsible about it. I really admire both of them for such an amicable split (my dad cheated, but the split was extremely civil & they remained on excellent terms) And not only that, they didn't use money against each other. The days of stand-up Americans are looong gone, and what we have is people who'll backstab the crap out of each other because the government lets them and puts less emphasis on personal responsibility like past generations did. No one cares about maintaining amicable relationships post-divorce and still raising the offspring anymore. A government garnishment order is all anyone thinks about now, ex-spouse be damned, gimme gimme gimme in terms of money reigns. I think the system should either be abolished & restructured, or amended to limit support to a utility or two. No one should be able to sit on their ass and live off the ex-spouse's money. Ever. That's as unjustifiable as being the fabled welfare whore is (which isn't easy by any means, CS whores are more common & should be just as frowned upon)
If you want to have primary or full custody, then holding a job to pay for it should be a no-brainer. Not how you're going to drive the ex into poverty with a gavel slam.

Just my opinion as a woman.

This is the exwife and I.

We are not together.

We just both want to be there everyday in the kids lives.

She gave me the CS card, so I get the money right back.

At first we were both D bags....but after a year, we both did the right thing.

We make it work for the kids.

We even fight a lot less now.

Now if only we could get the gov out of it.....good luck with that though.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: Nyiah
Thanks for your opinion Nyiah.
Respect!

This is much inline with the majority opinion here, the law can unthinkingly overreach to the point of being absurd,even when the potential aggrieved party said NO! such actions/payola is unnecessary, the Gov said TAKE IT ! damn what both parties want,so who the hell are they helping?

Themselves.

One family law lawyer I talked to told me they do this on purpose.

They hired new gov workers to file paperwork etc...so now must fund them, since no gov workers ever get downsized.

So they force folks like me to stay in the system so they can charge me an annual fee to pay these workers.

It is all a racket to pay for gov jobs.

Nothing more.

They care little if at all for the wellbeing of the children they "advocate" for.

originally posted by: Spider879
Ladies I would like to get your perspective on this, not putting you on the hot seat or anything and you don't have to agree or disagree is there an angle we maybe missing.

I'll put in my two cents, as a woman.

I think the system is completely screwed up in the US. (I don't know about Australia, which was mentioned).
I had a child in the US, the father decided after the birth that he didn't want to be part of it's life, as he had daddy issues of his own. I was fine raising my child alone.

Came to find out the father had been pulled through a court hearing that I had not been made aware of, which obligated him to pay child support- which went entirely to the state.
I did what I could for him, which was limited to signing his income taxes each year, so he could claim the child as dependent (though he did not see or know the child).

Years later, I found out he had tried to escape the child support by running off to another state, was found by the authorities after a few years, and made to pay a huge amount in back support. At that time I was living in France, married. I contacted the DA to proclaim I did not need or want him to pay any child support (it wasn't going to me anyway). I was told it really isn't any of my business and I have no say in it.

The system is so screwed up- I see men wailing that it is women abusing them in all this, and I say back- BS! It is the government just trying to fill their coffers.

But whenever we come across such things in our system, that we don't like, it is necessary to look at the ideas, values and principles they are sourced in. It is our american focus on individual responsibility (as contrasted with collective responsibility). One cannot holler against this sort of thing and simultaneously against "socialist" concepts as exist in Europe. It is self contradicting. We sometimes do not see how we are creating problems for ourselves, because we don't see the connection.

a reply to: Nyiah

How can being a woman judge be a conflict of interest in a child support isssue?? thats such a starnge comment to make.

As a woman myslef it sounds like the system in the States is a mess. Doesnt sound fair to anyone.
I dont think this is really a case of sexes having different views.
I think we all would say the non resident parent should pay support if financially able.
That if you are not genetically the parent and have never played a parent role in the childs life, then you should not have to pay child support.