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ENOUGH! Greece refutes EU anti-Russian statement

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posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 10:30 PM
a reply to: mortex

The answer is easy, if the economy shrinks, the debt to gdp ratio goes up.
They needed the loans because there were cut of of the capital markets after the wallstreet rating agencies (yes the ones who put AAA on garbage which was sold as investments to banks all over the world) downgraded them until they had junk status.
So without the ability to sell bonds in order to raise capital (interest on bonds through the roof) they had to be bailed out.
And of course the money flows to the banks, that is from whom Greece has loaned by selling bonds and therefore has to pay them back.
So it is not fraudulently, it is a lack of understanding on our side.

The debt is bigger because their economy has shrunk and they had hugh deficits which had to be financed through loans, more that 12 percent in 2013.
Last year their deficit was little above 2 percent, lower than that of the US or Britain, so while the situation seems dire, there must be something going right as their deficit has schrunk hughely and will be a surplus in the coming years.

Of course Greece was also the problem, spending way more money than is received will lead to bankruptcy because inevitable the day will come that Greece cannot meet its financial obligations anymore, this happened in 2010.
Include a government which fails to collect taxes, or simply puts the burden on the low wage worker, and you can be sure that it can only go wrong.
As for spain and Portugal, demand put forward is never a good idea, ghost towns were build, houses which nobody needed, of course its helps the economy grow and provides jobs, but there is no return on the investments so losses must be taken and companies go bust.
With that happening, unemployment rises and people cannot pay their bills let alone spend money which is needed for the stores and small business to survive.

posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 10:50 PM
a reply to: mortex

You have a completely different view than I do. All good of course...

posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 10:58 PM
a reply to: noeltrotsky

People who have anger management issues will not be allowed to cloud out the topic of discussion here on ATS. That is a great thing about this place.

As far as Greece, they just need to look in the mirror back at themselves, and then ask the question of how they got to where they currently are?

The answer lies with the jackals within their own Goverment, and how the masses of Greek citizens intend to move forward now. ~$heopleNation

posted on Feb, 14 2015 @ 05:30 AM

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: learnatic
Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”
Is Wolfowitz, when referring to “hostile power” referring to any power independent of Washington’s control?

Ref: Paul Craig Roberts

You post the same quote in every after day. Spamming everyone is your idea of fun?

No, its just relevant and still just as relevant today and when it was said. In order to have an informed perspective about the conflict in Russia readers need something that gives the conflict context and what Wolfowitz said provides this context.

Posting something that explains the United States position on Ukraine is hardly spamming. Quoting Wolfowitz is assisting others to gain perspective on the Ukrainian conflict from the US point of view. Why should I desist quoting it when it succinctly says everything that needs to be said to the put the Ukrainian situation into context particularly when you and I both know that that it giving the US point of view and putting the conflict in context.

This conflict has the distinct possibility that it would result in nuclear war and because of this I think the readers and contributors to this forum have a right to be accurately informed as to the intentions and plans of the United States regarding their interest in the conflict..

Would you rather readers and contributors to this forum not have this explanation of the US position and disclosure of their objectives and interests in the Ukraine?

posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:27 AM
My country now looks for partners outside EU, for our natural resources.

There is an open offer/political statement to USA for 70%-30% (70 for us) but no words from usa... USA wants it all shared with turks and that will let you out. There is an ancient phrase : Who ever wants them all, loses everything. We also have sound from Russia side and its very tempting.

And its not socialism as you recall. From now on, even if this government falls and a new one comes, it will be even more Russian friendly. The previews group of political parties (socialism PASOK, Nea Dhmokratia a right political party, Potami nobody knows what that is, but its german friendly, have very low %, gone, kaput).
edit on 31-3-2015 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:49 AM
Dimitri Kitsikis: The idea of a Greek-Turkish Confederation

According to Dimitri Kitsikis: USA is creating new modern Ottoman Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada, Dimitri Kitsikis, since the 1960s, has been the recognised theorist, first in Greece and then in Turkey, of the idea of a Greek-Turkish Confederation, which he has promoted by influencing statesmen, politicians, journalists, artists and thinkers in both countries. His books in Turkish became best sellers in Turkey and were praised by the Prime Minister of Turkey. He kept close ties with Prime Ministers Konstantinos Karamanlis senior of Greece and Turgut Özal of Turkey as well as the Chinese leaders Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping. His books in Greek created one of the greatest controversies ever encountered in Greek historiography. He has also opened the way to the study of technocracy in international politics. He has insisted that religion is an essential component of international politics and strove by conferences and other means to facilitate the collaboration between the four main religions of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism. He organised Orthodox dialogues with Iranian Shiites and Indian Hindus. He worked with Israeli Jews and fundamentalist Catholics from Quebec. He is the founder of the branch of study known as Photohistory. He is also a recognised poet with six collections of poetry published by Kedros (Κέδρος), Hestia (Ἑστία) and Akritas (Ἀκρίτας.) In 1991 he was honored with the first Greek-Turkish prize for poetry Abdi İpekçi, a Turkish journalist who had been shot dead by terrorists. In 2007, his 34th book was published under the title, “A Comparative History of Greece and China from Antiquity to the Present” (Athens, Herodotos, 345 pages). His books have been translated into Spanish, Portuguese, Serbian, Bulgarian, Russian, Turkish and Greek. Founder and editor of Endiamese Perioche (Intermediate Region), Greek quarterly of Geopolitics, since 1996. Public Foundation and Library under the name “ Dimitri Kitsikis” set up and financed in Athens, by the Greek State, in 2006. He has many interesting books including Aspects of Ottoman History; Orthodoxy and Islam; Dialogue among Civilizations; Woman and Family in Islam; Multiculturalism; Geopolitics and Greece; Comparative History of Greece and Turkey; Greek-Turkish Area; L’Empire ottoman;The Third Ideology; Turkish Greek Empire.Kitsikis was our guest speaker at Mevlana Rumi Conference that held in Toronto on November 3, 2007. He answered our questions related to Greek-Turkish dialogue and Ottoman’s multiculturalism compare to Canadian.

By Faruk Arslan

Your book called Turkish Greek Empire was published in Turkish, thought that the Ottoman Empire was, in a sense, a Turkish-Greek co-dominion. What are your historical facts that support your thesis?

Dimitri Kitsikis: History teaches us that the Ottoman Empire was the last manifestation of the Empire of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC which evolved into the Roman pagan Empire, then into the Christian Orthodox Roman Empire (called also Byzantine) and finally into the Bektashi Roman Empire (called also Ottoman) up to 1923.

Why did Greeks live over 400 years under the Ottoman, and waited that long to declare independency?

Dimitri Kitsikis : Before the appearance of a Western ideology called nationalism, at the end of the 18th century, the Empire was multireligious and multinational. Respect of differences was vital to the survival of the Empire this necessity had nothing to do with sentimentality, which contrary to the West had never been imperialistic. Nevertheless, the Ottoman period, i.e. the last phase of this 2500 long Empire, was the most tolerant and the most respectful of equality. Greek was voluntarily involved with Ottoman where multiculturalism exist. The Greeks were living under the Byzantine Empire as the Greek religion and culture while Turks captured Istanbul.

What did change after Fatih Sultan Mehmet conquer to Istanbul? Was it invasion or invitation?

Dimitri Kitsikis: From the 11th to the 18th century, Greeks and Turks had fought side by side to liberate their common fatherland (the Empire) against the imperialist West and the Ottoman King Fatih Sultan Mehmet in 1453 had been the most glorious liberator of these two people.

This is very radical answer. Most Greek won’t like it. What was the Multiculturalism model in the Ottoman Empire? Were the Ottoman policies too soft to prevent nationalistic propagandas?

Dimitri Kitsikis: Two of the four basic millets (the four pillars of the Empire were the Greek, the Turkish, the Armenian and the Jewish millets)) were in fact the most important: The Sunni (or “Turkish”) millet and the Orthodox (or “Greek”) millet. At the beginning of the 19th century the importance of the Greek millet had increased to the detriment of the Turkish millet, while the Empire began falling into decadence within an intense social crisis. Then, who did separated Turks from Greek, why it was happened, and when this process has been started? This was the time when the imperialist West, wanting to colonize the Empire, introduced the microbe of nationalism and while the Orthodox Church was imploring the Greeks to continue to be faithful to their sultan, Greek traders and intellectuals of the Diaspora inspired by the West and freemasonry provoked a separatist insurrection in 1821 which started the long process of dismantlement of the Empire which came to an end only a century later, in 1923. This is what I have called the Greek-Turkish one hundred year civil war.

Wow! How interesting facts are. Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyanni expressed surprise at a poll showing that 73 percent of the Turks like Greeks. Greek probably likes Turks. What was two nations political problem, then?

Dimitri Kitsikis: Because of the above circumstances, the Greeks were taught by the Westerners to hate the Turks, while the Turks who woke up a hundred years later and were the last of all the peoples of the Empire to catch the microbe of nationalism, continued to love their Greek brothers and had difficulty in understanding why the Greeks hated them, not knowing that the origin of this hate was inspired by the West. This is the reason why, still today, most Turks like their Greek brothers, while less Greeks like the Turks. In fact, Greeks are no less likely to be nationalists than Turks, but rather more. To quite some degree it depends on school historical education.

We couldn’t correct the remnants of historic nationalist propagandas on books. How do we influence to remove that official hatred contained history books?

Dimitri Kitsikis: In the last twenty years huge progress was made towards overcoming nationalism on the two sides of the Aegean Sea. History school books have been purged from the myths which inspired hatred, traders and intellectuals have come together and the perspective of a Turkish-Greek Confederation, which I was alone to defend in my books in 1978, is know vindicated by both governments. The most pro-Turkish Greek politicians are nowadays Dora Bakoyanni and Giorgos Papandreou. After joining European Union, Greeks own nation and culture gone beyond borders.

Why people are not speaking loudly after giving up their independency? Are they happy now?

Dimitri Kitsikis: The European Union is a golden prison for Greece. Like the Holy Alliance of 1815, it prevents any social revolt against capitalism. The solution is not that Turkey enters this
edit on 31-3-2015 by 23432 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 05:54 AM
Dimitri Kitsikis: The European Union is a golden prison for Greece. Like the Holy Alliance of 1815, it prevents any social revolt against capitalism. The solution is not that Turkey enters thisprison but that Greece loosens its ties with the EU, confederates with Turkey and, as Sarkozy rightly suggested, form around these two countries a Mediterranean union (including Israel). This confederation would be linked to the EU by a special agreement. Ataturk founded Turkey as a nation country.

Could we be going to lose Turkish identity under EU?

Dimitri Kitsikis: The purpose of the EU is not only to assure capitalist stability to its member states but with time to dismantle them and transform them from nation-states to European provinces (like Catalonia and Padania).

Well! I agree with you. Do you think joining to EU is not a good idea for Turkey?

Dimitri Kitsikis: In any case, nation-states having become obsolete, Turkey would certainly be dismantled if she enters the EU (as Greece will also be in time). As both countries cannot escape dismantlement, a solution would be to follow the plan of the USA to transform the Greek Turkish whole into a large confederation which would counterbalance the influence of the European Union, while at the same time being linked to it by loosened ties.

What do you mean by that. Are you suggesting that US is establishing new modern Ottoman?

Dimitri Kitsikis: This US inspired broadened confederation would consist of a hardcore (a reduced Greece and Turkey), joined by a Kurdish State, Georgia, Armenia, Syria and Israel in the East and by a Thracian State, Albania and Macedonia in the West. Thus the Ottoman Empire would be revived in a modern form; Istanbul would become the capital of the Confederation like Ottawa for Canada.

Himm! Go on please…

Dimitri Kitsikis: The two official languages of the Confederation would be Greek and Turkish, while the other languages of the peripheral states (Albania, Macedonia, Kurdistan, Armenia, Georgia, Syria, Israel) would also have their place.

What do you think for sub communities such as Alevism, Orthodoxy, and other cultural community in your idea of Confederation?

Dimitri Kitsikis: The two main religions would be Alevism (as heir of Bektashism) and Orthodoxy, which would be insured by the nominal head of the Confederation, having his seat in Istanbul, the Sultan. The only prince, who could, because of his past, be the sultan and at the same time be Bektashi-Alevi and Greek Orthodox, is a member of the Turkish-Greek dynasty of the Osmanlis (Ottoman), as this dynasty has not yet disappeared.

Do you see any similarities between Canadian and Ottoman multiculturalism models?

Dimitri Kitsikis: It is evident that the best example of such a Turkish-Greek confederation is the one that has proven its success up to now, i.e. the Canadian Confederation.

By the way, where have Sunnis gone who are majority of population in Turkey now? How can Greece and Turkey expect to be union again when they still think and act like they are under influence of nationalism?

Dimitri Kitsikis: All the above has been analyzed and proved by tens of my books, hundreds of my scientific articles and public conferences, by 47 years of University teaching, by influencing statesmen like Turgut Özal or Giorgos Papandreou, all along of my professional career as History professor, researcher and public figure, since 1960. You should keep in mind that if the Turkish and Greek public opinions are still kept in ignorance of the facts and plans put forward in my interview, the centers of political decision -and especially Washington- are not only perfectly aware of them since many decades (as proven in particular by the archives of the US State Department) but are pursuing the realization of such plans. It is just a question of time.

posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:03 AM
a reply to: 23432

Once Greece and Turkey re-unite, the Byzantine Empire will be reborn. Only then can Moscow rise to fulfill its destiny as the Third Rome.


posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:08 AM
a reply to: DJW001

this will never happen, we do not accept these mongoloids. And if you speak about prophecies, turks will be destroyed, only crypto-christians survive in turkey, from the prophecies. But all in all, this is a prophecy/plan they promote.

That is why its hard for the far left party to raise. Because they promote this plan. To take back Konstantinupolis and personally I, dont want that. Because the abominations, wwant to promote their abominations gods and one world order into Konstantinupolis... set us a trap

I personally am against bizantio, this is not us. It was a center of trade 2000y ago, it was multi-cultural with mongoloids and many Hellenics... They tried to promote muslim religion, they didnt make it, it was the age, also that Oynoi created today germany, they migrated from east to western europe. It was also the beginning of Rotchild family.

Germans and turks are the same race... Turks merged with ottomans (turks are Oynoi) and during the occupation in my country, every year they took the first born child from every family in my country. They turned them into Muslims and army for their disposal. That means, there are millions of greeks in Turkey today. They merged their dna with the children they abducted from us. They called them "genitsaroi"

Once they try to dismantle turkey, they will offer Konstantinupolis into us!!! It will look like that we rule it and it will be decided, to form the one world government into that town!!! Then they will begin a crusade against east and in order to give the motivation to china, destroy the world. This is the basic plan. So the one world order, comes after china destroyes white race. The one in Konstantinupolis is going to be a pre-plan of their one world order.

The most popular in america for a next president, is the guy who wants to dismantle turkey, he said it... so you follow their plan. He said, he will give turkish grounds for a kurdish state.

edit on 31-3-2015 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 31 2015 @ 06:09 AM
a reply to: JBurns

Good for Greece.

Although i would have hoped it was my own Government and Institutions that would have had the integrity and the balls to tell the truth about this total bag of manipulated madness in the Ukraine.

Good on you Greece / Greek Government for showing your mettle, leave the EU and get your economy back on track by devaluing your currency, which cannot be done with the Euro.

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