Anti vaxxers a simple question.

a reply to: Grimpachi

No you fail to understand what I am saying and in my opinion the study was not crap ... have you read it ... have you listened to Wakefield explain fully or do you just go along with what your so called experts conclude ...

Yes I have an agenda and that is to speak my mind ... and it does not agree with the decimation of a good persons character ...

My point about Japan was that of the history of vaccines and other drugs spewed out by Big Pharma have proven detrimental to Human health both in the past and the present ... they are never held accountable

So what is your problem ...

a reply to: artistpoet

No you fail to understand what I am saying and in my opinion the study was not crap ... have you read it ... have you listened to Wakefield explain fully or do you just go along with your so called experts conclude ...

Yes, I have read it and many papers about it. It is crap. Pure and simple crap. The selection of individuals down to the faulty conclusions. There are many threads here on ATS where his study was dissected.

Yes I have an agenda and that is to speak my mind ... and it does not agree with the decimation of a good persons character ...

Your agenda seems to be a bit more but if you are referring to Wakefield as a good person then it is possible you are simply a bad judge of character. His actions have lead to unneeded debilitations and deaths from believers in his words. All so he could line his pocket.

My point about Japan was that of the history of vaccines and other drugs spewed out by Big Pharma have proven detrimental to Human health both in the past and the present ... they are never held accountable

No, they haven't been proven as detrimental. They have saved millions of lives it may even be in the billions at this point.

When a food is found to be contaminated and is recalled we don't say that that type of food will always be bad. The logic anti-vaccers use when it comes to bad batches of vaccines is just the opposite. As far as accountability I have covered that twice in this thread it doesn't need repeating.

So what is your problem ...

I find it highly respectful to post the card you did ... implying I am stupid

And I disagree with your opinions ... calling me stupid does not make you clever or right nor is the majority always correct

Again I am at liberty to choose as I will ... as are you ... but I will not resort to childish jibes

I am not making this personal nor should you

a reply to: artistpoet

It's really quite simple:

a) you accept science and its findings, for good and for bad

b) you reject science in favor of a worldview insulated from reality

You can't have a) and b). Wakefield's paper is b), not a). You can't claim to have scientific evidence on your side yet reject the scientific method and all it entails. Wakefield was a fraud. Not only did he fake his research but he also had a vested interest in a patent for a rival vaccine for which he stood to make millions. If you wish to hold him up as evidence for your anti vaccination position you might as well eschew the scientific method all together and say "This is what I believe and evidence be damned", because that is exactly the sort of attitude that is needed to believe that Wakefield is anything other than a fraudster. You can't say that the scientific evidence is on your side and use Wakefield's retracted fraudulent paper to support your position. The two positions are mutually exclusive.

a reply to: artistpoet

Did you think I was referring to you?

Maybe you can be more specific before asking an open-ended question. I only gave you an honest answer.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Yes I did take it personally ... I apologise if that was not your intention

I must learn to write more clearly also I think ... I respect honesty even if I do not always agree

a reply to: GetHyped

Some science I acccept other science I do not ... Science does not hold all the answers ... it can be many things including biased

There are scientific reports that conflict with each other

I feel the case against Wakefield was rigged ...

What is wrong with making better vaccines as Wakefield wished to do though I have never seen evidence proving this was the case ... Indeed Wakefield wanted the MMR separated into 3 separate shots which is now what many are saying

I see Wakefield more a victim than fraudster

a reply to: artistpoet

What is wrong with making better vaccines as Wakefield wished to do though I have never seen evidence proving this was the case ... Indeed Wakefield wanted the MMR separated into 3 separate shots which is now what many are saying

Seriously???? You have a go at me about reading his study and then try to say Wakefield wanted 3 separate shots.

No, that is not what he advocated. He developed his own MMR vaccine that he claimed was safer and planned to make millions off of it by discrediting the current one in scandal.

I am sure you are familiar with the term "conflict of interest".

Revealed: Wakefield's secret first MMR patent claims "safer measles vaccine"

He had a business plan that was dependent on study results that had not yet been done he then went on to conduct those studies. Vaccine study's author held related patent, medical journal reports

He even developed an autism test that would have made him $43 million a year. He is a scam artist that has been discredited rightfully so.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Thanks for links ... I was not aware of ... I will read them later as it is gone 4 am here ... and give my thoughts when in a clearer frame of mind

" However, Dr. Wakefield was never convicted by a jury or in a court of law, and he lives in the U.S. today. He has issued challenges to his accusers to debate him in the media, but of course they have never accepted his challenge. He is a leading expert in gut health, a subject sorely needing research today, in an age where not only vaccines, but antibiotics, pesticides, and many other things have destroyed our ability to digest our food properly, leading to many bowel diseases "


healthimpactnews.... com/2014/the-vaccine-autism-cover-up-how-one-doctors-career-was-destroyed-for-telling-the-truth/

Does the vaccine not work ? Why are the vaccinated so scared of the unvaccinated if they are vaccinated? because it doesn't work ? The numbers you gave do not match at all the numbers they gave us on the news.

originally posted by: artistpoet
a reply to: GetHyped

Some science I acccept other science I do not ...

Let me guess... the science that does not fit with your world view is the science you do not accept? The good thing about science is that it is true whether you accept it or not.

I feel the case against Wakefield was rigged ...

This smacks of motivated reasoning. No reasonable, critically thinking, intellectually honest person could come to this conclusion based on the evidence.

What is wrong with making better vaccines as Wakefield wished to do though I have never seen evidence proving this was the case ... Indeed Wakefield wanted the MMR separated into 3 separate shots which is now what many are saying

Because he fabricated data so he could make millions off a rival vaccine? And that doesn't strike you as incredibly insidious and deceitful?

a reply to: Foderalover

How many times must this be repeated? Herd immunity. It protects those who cannot be vaccinated and those for whom the vaccine wasn't effective enough.

a reply to: GetHyped

Let me guess... the science that does not fit with your world view is the science you do not accept? The good thing about science is that it is true whether you accept it or not.

Science conflicts with itself concerning certain matters ... we all make choices as to what/who we believe or not.

This smacks of motivated reasoning. No reasonable, critically thinking, intellectually honest person could come to this conclusion based on the evidence.

The evidence you speak of is disputed ...

Because he fabricated data so he could make millions off a rival vaccine? And that doesn't strike you as incredibly insidious and deceitful?

Again the allegations are disputed ... What about the lies and rigged "evidence" of the Pharmaceutical Industry which is conventionally ignored

a reply to: artistpoet

The evidence is disputed by those who are utterly divorced from reality. With such people as yourself it is impossible to have an intelligent discussion because any evidence presented, no matter how compelling, will be dismissed with a simple and vapid "nuh uh you're wrong!".

a reply to: GetHyped

If you feel that way fine ... Your mind is already set and those who disagree with you are in your mind unintelligent ... so lets not waste each others time.

Unfortunately the fact is that pharmaceutical companies create these vaccines for profit. It's also unfortunate that the FDA is completely compromised and pushes through drugs all in the name of profit. I'm sure you've heard of the Merck Vaccine Fraud

childhealthsafety.wordpress.com...

And I'm sure you've heard that the previous head of Monsanto is now the head of the FDA and they think it's okey dokey to ingest pesticide that's been infused in the dna of corn. Yep the same pesticide that workers use suits to protect themselves when they spray food is OK TO EAT.

The FDA also thinks it's ok to put yoga mat material in bread to keep it fresher longer. Because it is so much more nutritious to eat yoga mat material in the United States. Other countries BAN food that we think is normal to eat in the US....but that's ok?

The fact is that now my 2 lil ones deal with stomach pains on a daily basis and that 9 out of 10 people I know are on an acid reducer and that now it seems this is the new "normal". It's not freakin normal. It's not natural.

A friend of mine had her 3 daughters vaccinated with Gardisal. Racheal ended up in a wheel chair, lost the ability to speak, had seizures and her muscles started to contract constantly. It attacked her nervous system and the doctors did not know what to do. And surprise surprise the bs I learned on how they fast tracked the vaccine to be released.

So when these big name pharmaceutical companies create a vaccine that is not profit driven and is ethically created and presented to the public with honest results on it's effectiveness I'll be happy to vaccinate my lil ones.

Until then keep your eyes out for flying pigs...if there's profit to be had, they will be making them

a reply to: boymonkey74

Have vaccines saved millions of lives or not?.

The question becomes completely irrelevant if you expect
people to just trust those in power and ignore how easy
it would be for those maniacs to suddenly take millions of
lives just as easily. They wouldn't even have anyone to answer
to if we all just said OKIE-DOKE!