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Operation Indigo Skyfold

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posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 05:53 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
I am sorry, people didn't fall for bull# in the 80's.


The point that is relevant is whether or not whoever is calling the shots has been spraying something for whatever reason.

The person interviewed spoke about his experience, which was in the 80s.

I would suggest that what he said is highly relevant, since it's not hearsay; it's firsthand personal testimony.




posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: ConnectDots

I would suggest that what he said is highly relevant, since it's not hearsay; it's firsthand personal testimony.



so it is the worst possible type of evidence



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Gene Tatum stated that he was told he was spraying aluminum oxide, but that he was also told to wear a mask.

That is the only point to be gleaned from that clip.

It was not posted to prove anything about what advocates of chemtrails are saying today.

The only relevant information is what you can surmise from Tatum's testimony.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Why are you happy?

I disagree. I think it's good evidence.

It's good to have multiple witnesses, but under the circumstances, we're lucky to have any whistleblowers.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: ConnectDots

Am I misunderstanding you here? Are you trying to prove that things get sprayed from aircraft? Nobody would deny that. Various different spray mechanisms have existed for a very long time. Nobody disputes the technical capability to spray, just the outlandish claims of chemtrails.

If it's not that, what does someone spraying something from an aircraft in the 80's have to do with the discussion?



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: ConnectDots

Why to not rely on eyewitness accounts

The problem with eyewitness testimony

eyewitness identification

I put a smilie there not because I was happy - but because the statement that eyewitnesses are the worst possible evidence has a ironic humour aspect to it!!

IMO an eyewitness statement is nothing more than a point at which to decide that further investigation is warranted.

for example take Gene Tatum saying he was told he was "spraying" aluminium oxide.

1/ was he told the truth?
2/ was he told WHY he was spraying aluminium oxide?
3/ Are there legitimate reasons to be "spraying" aluminium oxide?
4/ is Gene Tatum a reliable witness in the first place?

all these are good question - his testimony is not the answer - it is the start of the question!



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: ConnectDots.....


The following clip from a YouTube video published April 17, 2015 is from a radio show of host Stew Webb of the Veterans Truth Network. It is a discussion with Gene Chip Tatum, who also has his own show on the network. The discussion has a little bit about spraying that Tatum did in the early 80s,.....


Is anyone interested in the spraying that Tatum did in the early 80s? What he had to say about it?


I would be (coming late to this particular thread due your latest message) - but I can't find anything at your link - it is just to the generic programme schedule, and I can't find that one specific video - again - can you link and tell us a time stamp for his comments??

ETA: as soon as I couldn't find it I did!! :/

Anyway - it's over 2 hours long, so a pointer would be useful:




edit on 15-7-2015 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 07:09 PM
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originally posted by: payt69
Why are there no credible whistleblowers, despite such a globla operation needing thousands if not millions of people in the know?


You know, you are quite demanding.

Do you understand that whistleblowers can get killed?

My understanding is that people in the military are simply afraid to open their mouths. For good reason.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: ConnectDots


Perhaps the debate should shift from "chemtrails" to "geoengineering," since the name David Keith came up on this thread previously, as well, since some members are interested in his proposal.

Fantastic idea! Let's do that. Finally no more nonsense from Wigington. Poor guy thinks they're the same thing.

Glad to see you moving beyond that.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: DenyObfuscation
Who is speaking out about geoengineering going on as opposed to a proposal?



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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You know, you are quite demanding.


Of course I am. The claim that persisting contrails are actually chemtrails to me is on the level of idiocy of claiming that the earth is really a giant pizza. So I need really good evidence to convince me. So far I have seen nothing.


Do you understand that whistleblowers can get killed?

My understanding is that people in the military are simply afraid to open their mouths. For good reason.


Either that, or maybe there's nothing to blow a whistle about.

And who mentioned the military? Most of the footage of supposed 'chemtrail' planes are just commercial airliners flying known routes. So civilian pilots and crews would have to be in the know too. So we're looking at hundreds of thousands of people.

I read a plausibility study of such an opration going on, written by a Boeing engineer the other day. Here it is:


For what it is worth, I am a Boeing engineer with 20 years of experience in the aerospace industry.

* There are no special tanks anywhere on our airplanes to hold chemicals to be sprayed out.
* There are no spray nozzles on the airplanes either, unless you count the emergency fuel dump nozzles on the widebody jets.
* This can be readily ascertained by simply looking through an airplane before the interior wall panels are installed. Here is a list of all the tanks which are on a jetliner:
** Fuel, potable water, waste water, engine fire suppressant (Halon + other stuff), cargo fire suppressant (just Halon), hydraulic reservoirs. On the new airplanes you will also see tank-like devices which generate nitrogen to inert the fuel tanks.
* Further, there is no room for such stuff to get installed. You would have to carry TONS of liquid to make spray trails independent of the exhaust condensation, and the only liquid we carry tons of is Jet-A fuel.
* In Everett Washington, the Seattle flight museum has a restoration center where you can go see dismantled airplanes being readied for display in the museum. The work is done almost entirely by volunteers. I assume other flight museums have similar workshops. If you can find one where you live, go to the restoration center and see the planes up close. There’s no where to hide a sprayer system where it wouldn’t be seen by maintenance crews.

* The Boeing final assembly plant is open for tours by the public, and VIPs from all over the world can get close-up tours. The airplanes are built in a staggered sequence, so that two airplanes side-by-side are usually being made for two different airlines.

* The majority of Boeing’s production is sold overseas. In fact, the company is the nation’s largest exporter.
* Thus, if a domestic airplane was modified for “chemtrail production” in the factory, it would be as easy as pie for a foreign VIP to walk over and say, “What are these fancy tanks and sprayers on the American plane which aren’t on my airplane?”
* If any airplane WAS modified for chemtrail to add chemtrail sprayers, the thousands of Boeing employees would have to know. I don’t work in Fuels, and I can identify every tank and tube in the wing area.
* If thousands of Boeing employees knew, then so would thousands of supplier employees who go through our factories, thousands of airlines employees who go through our factories, and all the FAA and NTSB and DOT people as well. Also, our airplanes and factories are inspected by the Aviation Authorities of foreign countries (like EASA from Europe) and they would also need to be in on the conspiracy.
* There would simply be too many people involved to prevent this from leaking out. If the chem trail sprayers were being added in the factory, the secret would be out.

* So what if the chemtrail sprayers were being added by an aftermarket shop?
* You’re back to the same problem. It takes hundreds of people to design, build, and install a major modification on a jetliner, and the mod shops are just as open as Boeing is. You wouldn’t be able to keep the secret.
* Further, most airlines have their planes maintained by outside suppliers, who would have to be in on the conspiracy. Those who do their own maintenance do the work in open bays that again would make it easy to view the modification.
* And you have the same problem that you need to get thousands of maintenance people, suppliers, and certification authorities in on the conspiracy. It would have leaked by now. All it takes is one guy with a cell phone camera, and the world would know.

* So what if they somehow managed to do all this stuff anyway? Now you have to realize that somebody, somewhere, has to be pumping TONS of chemtrail chemicals into these mysterious hidden tanks on the airplanes. You would need a fill valve, and a distribution system, and special trucks carrying the chemicals disguised as fuel trucks. That would take thousands more people to be in on the conspiracy.
* One giveaway would be two fuel trucks pulling up to the same jetliner – one with the fuel and one with the chemicals. Remember, we’re talking about tons of liquid here.
* It just doesn’t work – you would need independent chemical fill ports, and somebody, somewhere, would notice.
* And while we’re talking about it, remember that every jetliner pilot has to check the weight of the plane and calculate a talk off runway length and other factors. The charts are the same for every jetliner of a given type, but if there really were chemtrail sprayers, then the charts for those airplanes would have to be different to account for the tons of chemicals that might be on the airplane.

* So, I really don’t think there is any way to hide the sprayers on jetliners. Too many people would have to know, and it would be too easy to detect by passerby.

* So, what if the chemtrail chemicals are in the jet fuel? This wouldn’t require ANY visible modifications to the airplanes, and far fewer people would have to know about the conspiracy.
* This would be harder to refute, BUT, you would have to discard the “on and off” contrails as being caused by pilots turning sprayers on and off. All the fuel on the plane came from the same fuel trucks and the same fuel tanks, so the supposed chemtrail would have to be continuous from takeoff until landing. I think that would have been noticed by now.

* So to my mind, that pretty much eliminates the possibility of using jetliners to create chemtrails.
* Which means you have to be using military jets, and thousands of them, flying unnoticed back and forth on normal commercial routes. So now you have to have all the air traffic controllers in on the conspiracy as well.
* And the planes will again need special tanks for the chemicals, and special fill ports, and special sprayers, and special tanker trucks filling the chemical tanks on the planes, special non-military suppliers delivering the stuff, and you’re right back to the same issue of needing to keep thousands of people from talking.

Bottom line:
You would need a special delivery system on the airplanes.
You would need a special fill system.
You would need independent tanker trucks.
You would need a separate supply chain.
You would need thousands and thousands of people to hold their tongues, and never have even ONE person leave any incriminating evidence in a safe deposit box to be discovered after their deaths.

It ain’t happening.


contrailscience.com...



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 07:41 PM
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a reply to: ConnectDots
He [Dane] simply slapped a new label on an old meme.

He's still playing pin the trail on the donkey.

You've looked into Keith's proposals somewhat. His geoengineering proposals are not about making contrails at airliner cruising altitude.


edit on 15-7-2015 by DenyObfuscation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Start at 1:34:05.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: ConnectDots




My understanding is that people in the military are simply afraid to open their mouths. For good reason.


And my understanding is you think Dane Wigington tells the truth...so your understanding is a bit suspect.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: payt69

I recognize that Contrail Science website from Kristen Meghan's talk.

That, and Metabunk.

This contrail - chemtrail merry-go-round reminds me of the left - right paradigm that Alex Jones has pointed out.

It's probably all engineered just to keep us occupied while the powers that be go about their merry (sarcastic) business.

Things just keep on keeping on.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
He [Dane] simply slapped a new label on an old meme.

What is the old meme and the new label?



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 08:51 PM
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a reply to: ConnectDots


I recognize that Contrail Science website from Kristen Meghan's talk.

That, and Metabunk.

I hope you don't think ''shill'' is a valid argument. That's an ad hominem, which is a logical fallacy.



This contrail - chemtrail merry-go-round reminds me of the left - right paradigm that Alex Jones has pointed out.

It's probably all engineered just to keep us occupied while the powers that be go about their merry (sarcastic) business.

Insightful. It would be helpful to be able to see which side is truthful and which is deceitful, would you agree?



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: ConnectDots

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
He [Dane] simply slapped a new label on an old meme.

What is the old meme and the new label?


Old meme is ''chemtrails''. New label is GE. GE is the newest label for the same old trails.



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: DenyObfuscation
Do you know approximately when the term "chemtrails" started? Perhaps who coined the term, as well?



posted on Jul, 15 2015 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: DenyObfuscation

I didn't say anything about "shill." What are you talking about?



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