Is there even a set of circumstances to bring Putin and Russia back to peace?

Is there even a set of circumstances to bring Putin and Russia back to peace? Honestly, with all the disinformation and out right lies by any and everyone I have no idea what the truth is and don't bother telling me your cause its just based on lies and disinformation too.

It seems that there is no return for Putin thus Russia to normal relations with the West. As far as I see he snubs all efforts to return to normalcy and maybe he is justified, but I also don't see him or Russia stating what they want or even attempting to calm things down. They seem from our media perspective in the US hell bent on disrupting any and everything associated with the US and the West.

Will Putin have to die/overthrown for the world to find peace again or is their an off ramp for Putin and Russia? Can Putin be negotiated with?

I just don't see a path back to peace. Am I the only one that thinks it is never going to get better but only worse?

Whats your agenda? Looks like I bothered.

a reply to: Xeven

Near as I have been able to determine, this is normalcy for Putin.

a reply to: Xeven

Putin is really calculating and intelligent. Personally I believe he is doing this on purpose. He is setting Russia up as the alternative to a US dominated world. Any country that has problems with the US can go to Russia for support. Think of the struggle in Ukraine as a large advertisement in the Super Bowl.

If Putin does NOT set Russia up as the US alternative then China will become that alternative. As soon as people start getting that support from China then Russia becomes much less important on the world stage.

Thus, no, it is not ending anytime soon. Talk of peace and all that is just temporary. The Cold War has returned in full force. After Putin leaves Russian politics we'll see if the path he set Russia on stays or a new leader decides something different. I think Putin will hand pick his successor and the pattern will continue.

originally posted by: NightFlight
Whats your agenda? Looks like I bothered.

LOL. What I mean is a dissertation on the evils of the US. Don't need to hear that...again. What I like to know is if anyone has heard or knows a news source where Russia has brokered for peace or offered anything to negotiate over to calm things down and improve relations.

I think Putin, justified or not is just done with the West and international law in general. While I am not saying he is going to break any and all international laws I do think he is no longer considering agreements and treatise if he thinks they in any way hamper his agenda.

I think for him there is no going back and I wonder if others think this as well or is there a way back to peace for him?

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: Xeven

Putin is really calculating and intelligent. Personally I believe he is doing this on purpose. He is setting Russia up as the alternative to a US dominated world. Any country that has problems with the US can go to Russia for support. Think of the struggle in Ukraine as a large advertisement in the Super Bowl.

If Putin does NOT set Russia up as the US alternative then China will become that alternative. As soon as people start getting that support from China then Russia becomes much less important on the world stage.

Thus, no, it is not ending anytime soon. Talk of peace and all that is just temporary. The Cold War has returned in full force. After Putin leaves Russian politics we'll see if the path he set Russia on stays or a new leader decides something different. I think Putin will hand pick his successor and the pattern will continue.

Do you think war is inevitable while Putin is at the helm?

originally posted by: Xeven
Is there even a set of circumstances to bring Putin and Russia back to peace?

Sure, if we kickout :
-The petro dollard
-The people in Washinton
-The people in Israel
-The UK's royal family
-The banksters

And then we :
-Join BRICKS

I'm pretty sure that's all it would take!

I will post a counter question about the owners of the US and Europe.

Is there any way to stop the banking cartel giving order to US politicians from allowing any part of the world not to be controlled by them? Will they be happy with dominating US, Europe and causing suffering in Africa or will they not stop until they control everything? If there was an uprising in the world will they allow the loss of control or start world war 3 to make sure they do not lose control? Will they start a war against Greece since they where not allowed to get all the control they wanted over Greece?

I do not worry that much over Putin even if he is not the good guy. It is the US FED/US corrupt Politicians/Saudi Arabia/CIA/Wahabbi that is the real problem.

a reply to: Xeven

If you listen to what he (Putin) said in the interview he gave to German ARD in November last year, he wants the west to accept Russia's security interests.
Problem is: western (first and foremost U.S.) security interest are diametrically opposed.

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: Xeven
Is there even a set of circumstances to bring Putin and Russia back to peace?

Sure, if we kickout :
-The petro dollard
-The people in Washinton
-The people in Israel
-The UK's royal family
-The banksters

And then we :
-Join BRICKS

I'm pretty sure that's all it would take!

Going over to real gold money instead of Fiat money.

originally posted by: Xeven

originally posted by: NightFlight
Whats your agenda? Looks like I bothered.

LOL. What I mean is a dissertation on the evils of the US. Don't need to hear that...again. What I like to know is if anyone has heard or knows a news source where Russia has brokered for peace or offered anything to negotiate over to calm things down and improve relations.

I think Putin, justified or not is just done with the West and international law in general. While I am not saying he is going to break any and all international laws I do think he is no longer considering agreements and treatise if he thinks they in any way hamper his agenda.

I think for him there is no going back and I wonder if others think this as well or is there a way back to peace for him?

Putin is a Christian and has more or less removed most factions from Russia that would undermine Russia. That being stated, along comes a puppet government installed in Ukraine by our State Dept. with Vicktoria Nuland, et al, and Putin's counter-move was to make Crimea a Russian state.

The US state dept. countered by having the Kiev govt. shoot down an innocent aircraft and try to blame it on Russia (Putin). It didn't work and now they are stalemated and doing stupid things trying to get Putin to attack.

What I can't understand for the life of me is why the hell are we (US) even there? It was an internal Ukraine situation. Why we decided to involve ourselves is outrageous! We have nothing to gain even with a NATO base there. Absolutely nothing. Russia is not communist anymore, but we certainly seem to be.

a reply to: Xeven

I think for him there is no going back and I wonder if others think this as well or is there a way back to peace for him?

There has been from the beginning.

Show respect to us and show respect for our interests.

There's a difference to how the Russians approach the world and how the Americans approach the world. So, for instance, Americans like to threaten. If you don't do this, then we will do X, Y and Z. That's a typical American behaviour.

That's not something that the Russians would ever do because they don't threaten, they just act because if you threaten, then you take away the element of surprise which is very important. The other thing is Americans refuse to talk to their enemies, they won't negotiate with terrorists, they won't do X, Y and Z and can't be reasoned with at all. You can just listen to them and do what they say or they'll bomb you whereas the Russians always talk to their enemies.

Source

What you might have missed in Western media is that the Separatists/Putin from the beginning have tried to come to peace, but that has all been buried in our media with a pile of propaganda.

The moment the West actually starts to seriously talk with Russia, instead of pretending in doing it and then start to command orders, it can be resolved.

Basically what until now has been done is nothing more as trying to order The Kremlin to comply with the interest of the US, "Stay away from giving support to the Separatists so we can drive anyone away from Eastern Ukraine and let us plant NATO basis in the Ukraine so we can have anti-missile systems next to you and can start to try to topple you in the future to have a government which hands us over your resources just like in the 90s."

a reply to: Xeven

Guys, I hope you are married or in some kind of relationship. Sometimes things go sour, Russia is a woman tossed a side when we men don't need her and when we do we expect her to come running with sexy underwear under her modest dress. But now she is really pissed and if this was a marriage you could expect a nasty divorce with shouting matches in court.

Getting away from that well worn analogy, Russia has been kicked in the ball once to often and Obama's leg isn't even tired. So, no there isn't for now any way back and war whether it happens over Ukraine or something else is a distinct possibility. Obama has made a mess of the world, failed states; Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and now Ukraine. I am actual pining for George W. Bush, no just kidding but Obama is worse than that clown and that saying something.

What does the K stand for in BRICKS? Kazakhstan? LOL just kidding
(although I don't understand why South Africa gets to be part of BRICS - the B, the R, the I and the C all make sense to me. It seems to me like they just threw S. Africa in there to claim stake on another continent a reply to: theMediator

OP, your quest for answers better not get in the way of my doomporn.

If the banksters are doing one thing right, its rushing headlong into the apocolypse.

Here's how I see it

The west appears hell bent on pushing "official" NATO influence into Ukraine, and Russia appears hell bent on not allowing that to happen. I think it's a proxy standoff at this point.

Essentially, what choice does Russia really have?

Look at it in another way. What if Russia or China supported an anti American uprising in Mexico? From the American perspective that's an act of war. If you support the uprising of an anti American regime in Mexico your at war with the U.S.

So who holds more responsibility in pulling back from the brink if the situation becomes critical?

The same way I would see it as a failure of leadership in America if they allowed my hypothetical, I would see a failure of leadership in Russia if they allowed the same.

I don't claim to be 100% percent correct in what's unfolding, but if you're reading the writing on the wall.........

a reply to: Xeven

Putin has repeatedly asked the US to work out peace with Russia,even saying in his New Year's call to Obama that both countries have a responsibility to maintain world peace.

I think they main thing that RUSSIA wants,with or without Putin,is to not have NATO on their doorstep.
So I really don't think removing him is the answer.Yes we may be able to get another Yeltsin in there,but the Russian people remember all too well suffering while he was in office. Under Putin the average citizen has done much better and they know it. another Yeltsin would only last as long as the Russian people would put up with him. He wouldn't be serving their needs but the US's.

I think what we need to come to understand in the US,is that while we may not like every leader or even be able to get along with them,that is no reason to have them as an enemy. They do their thing and we do ours. We need to stop thinking in imperialist terms of they MUST be like us! Even in ancient Rome people were still allowed to carry out their day to day lives and Rome just wanted the tax money. Now they did take slaves and all that,and I'm not saying it was a great system.But ours is very similar right now. You can not run around and conquer the world as a means of improving your economy. You run out of countries to conquer,then what? You conquer friends?

Do I think that we can have peace with Russia? Not with our government we have now. Yes I said OUR government. We don't want peace with Russia on ANY terms but ours only. If it helps us and screws another country,we are all for it. We don't need to give Russia everything it wants,that is not safe nor smart,but we can't act like the kid who wants others to play by his rules all the time.Eventually the other kids get tired of his bossy ways and go home and won't play with him anymore. If you want to change anothers behavior,you have to change how you deal with them first.

a reply to: Xeven

it seems you have fallen for the US propaganda machine , if you check out what the rest of Europe is feeling you would find that most of Europeans want the US to keep its nose out where its not wanted.

it seems that the US is itching for a war well no surprise there .

Russia has every right to defend her boarders , can you imagine what the US would do if this was playing out on the US boarder , yes tanks, bombs, drones and a mass of troops on the ground .

Russians don't really care about 'NATO being on the doorstep'. This is just an irritant and good excuse.

Putin wants the old Soviet sphere of influence back. When he offers 'peace' it always comes with the understanding that Russia gets a sphere of influence in nearby countries and US doesn't interfere in those countries.

It is why you hear Putin constantly say the US caused the regime change in Ukraine while Westerners say the people of Ukraine rose up and kicked out the president when he reneged on the promise to join the EU. The fact is that the people did rise up, but that the US has been supporting 'democracy' in the Ukraine for many years. Putin doesn't want the US to keep doing this in his 'sphere of influence'.

No, Putin will not go to full out war. He knows the Russian military is no match for the West. That is why he is spending a higher % of GDP than the US is on his military. It is impressive when you outspend the US on military items! In 2020 Putin hopes Russia will be seriously prepared for a global war. Prior to that he will just skirt along the edge and make leaders give concessions without actually pulling the trigger.

Wait a second. You asked your question and then basically stated that we should not bother telling you the answer because it is based on lies and disinformation..."Bring Putin back to peace" is a loaded statement, considering Putin is not at a war. As I have been stating repeatedly on ATS ever since the fiasco in Crimea, this entire thing is being blown out of proportion. For some reason everyone thinks that the world is doomed, when we are simply witnessing power politics and posturing. Putin did not take action in Crimea based on a policy of territorial expansion or anything sinister, rather he took one of the few actions available to him to maintain some form of Russian strategic advantage in the region. He has potential enemies all over Europe, meaning that the naval base located in Crimea is of vital importance in the event that a conflict did break out. That does not mean he is planning on a conflict breaking out. The partisan forces fighting in Ukraine are not indicative of a war, considering that if Putin wanted to outright take over Ukraine he could easily do so. But he will not do that, because the implications and consequences would not benefit Russia. He simply cannot hope to fight a protracted war from an economic point of view. If he thought he could deal with US and European economic and possibly military reprisals, he would have invaded Ukraine by now.

If that was his intention he has lost his window of time. The correct time to initiate an offensive was before the world knew that he might take such action. He knows that under no circumstances will the western world accept Russian territorial expansion. This doesn't mean the US or European nations would go to war over Ukraine, although they might, but it definitely means that Russia will be economically isolated from the majority of wealthy and influential nations. Economic warfare is one of Russia's main concerns, considering they have got the advantage in a conventional war, given their geographic location. If Putin is directing the guerrilla forces operating in Ukraine then he is essentially saying that he is not going to risk starting a conventional war. And a nuclear war is out of the question, both for Russia and the US, or anyone else for that matter. Conventional war is still the main method of conflict between modern superpowers, believe it or not. Think about it. It is utterly absurd to start a nuclear war if you know that the enemy will destroy you, even if you destroy them. There is no upside, and everyone realizes this. Nuclear weapons are a deterrent, plain and simple. If we ever reach the point where a missile defense system, composed of multiple shields all over the world, is in existence, to the point that even a large scale nuclear attack can be stopped, then nuclear war MIGHT become a viable option between modern nuclear superpowers.

And I wish to reiterate that Putin is not really being militarily aggressive. Russia is simply pursuing a particular policy with the intent of making them militarily relevant, by positioning their resources more advantageously. Russia's aim could not be takeover Ukraine, because this cannot be done with the limited partisan forces that are currently fighting at present. It would take a large military force, and I have seen no evidence that Russia has committed actual Russian military forces. If they have, it has not been on a scale sufficient to achieve the objective of conquering Ukraine. So if that is his intention, why would he go about it in such a manner? The only reason would involve politics, but I still do not grasp what the objectives would be with such guerrilla forces. So I cannot accept the notion that Russia has taken any decisive military action, beyond what is necessary to maintain strategic relevance in an era where US military dominance is expanding in Asia and Europe, essentially Russia's border.