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Booze now considered a weapon in rape cases

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posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 01:38 AM
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So here i am having a bit f breakfast and catching up on the various news channels i follow on youtube,
And just got to this video:

For those of you that for some reason cannot watch the video, here is a link about the whole thing:

gazette.com... ol-redefined-as-weapon-in-sexual-assault-cases-by-prosecutors-military-officials/article/1545538

What does ATS think about this?
Personally i have always avoided drunk women in pubs or clubs, i figure it's the smartest thing to do.
But there seems to be no clear line on how this is going to be applied, as you can see in the video, a guy can be accused of rape by a woman that got drunk on her own, had sex with you and regretted it.
Or if you buy a woman a few drinks and she goes over her limit, if anything happens, you could be held accountable for using a "weapon"against them.
so now what, even offering a woman a drink is off the table?
I don't even know what to think about this, i might add some notes after my coffee.
Boys of ATS, will you think twice, or more before buying a lady a drink at a bar? do you fear they are now not responsible for their own drinking?
Girls of ATS, how do you feel about this? does it make you feel safer, do you feel like this is pushing it too far?




posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 01:49 AM
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originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse
So here i am having a bit f breakfast and catching up on the various news channels i follow on youtube,
And just got to this video:

For those of you that for some reason cannot watch the video, here is a link about the whole thing:

gazette.com... ol-redefined-as-weapon-in-sexual-assault-cases-by-prosecutors-military-officials/article/1545538

What does ATS think about this?
Personally i have always avoided drunk women in pubs or clubs, i figure it's the smartest thing to do.
But there seems to be no clear line on how this is going to be applied, as you can see in the video, a guy can be accused of rape by a woman that got drunk on her own, had sex with you and regretted it.
Or if you buy a woman a few drinks and she goes over her limit, if anything happens, you could be held accountable for using a "weapon"against them.
so now what, even offering a woman a drink is off the table?
I don't even know what to think about this, i might add some notes after my coffee.
Boys of ATS, will you think twice, or more before buying a lady a drink at a bar? do you fear they are now not responsible for their own drinking?
Girls of ATS, how do you feel about this? does it make you feel safer, do you feel like this is pushing it too far?




I personally feel if a girl drinks too much, of her own volition, she is just as responsible. However, if the booze is pushed ON her, or tainted in some way (drugged), then yes, I can see weapon being applied. Also, guys can control themselves just as much. Take for example the Vanderbilt case with the football players. One of the football players is now claiming he has no memory of the night, he was too drunk. But apparently sober enough to text his girlfriend he wanted a quesadilla (with correct spelling, not drunk text spelling), that h did something bad, that he was coming over, to tell cops he was with her all night, etc.., and to delete the texts so he wouldn't get in trouble, BUT he didn't remember sending those. Yup, sure. I believe all that. Now he's saying he wouldn't have raped the victim if his father hadn't died when he was a child. There we go, daddy issues. No it's called control YOUR alcohol as well and be a man. This poor woman was set up BY HER BOYFRIEND to be raped by 3 of his teammates and himself in his dorm room. She thought she was safe because she was with her bf. She learned otherwise the hard way. They raped her, urinated on her, and violated her with a bottle, then left her in the hall half naked for everyone to find. Nice boyfriend. The boyfriend and daddy issues each got 20 years. The 2 others go on trial shortly. The four idiots video taped the rape and sent it to friends. Such lovely gents. I would say the content of your alcohol depends on who you are with, but now you cannot trust anyone anymore.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 01:53 AM
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I really don't understand why a woman, who gets drunk and has sex, can claim she was raped as she couldn't give consent owing to her inebriation, even if she was a willing participant in the act of congress. Worse yet, the woman can claim "she doesn't remember" much (such as giving consent) and yet her testimony will be believed.

After all, if you're drunk and you drive, you're still legally responsible for your actions, so why can you not be drunk and give consent, even if you wouldn't have done so while sober? Or how someone in any other trial who was under the influence at the time of the alleged offence would have their testimony questioned and likely dismissed.

There does seem to be an alarming trend these days of automatic presumed guilt on behalf of the man while giving the woman no legal responsibility for her actions as long as she can claim she was drunk. Accusations like this can ruin a mans life, especially as - unlike the victim - they have no right to anonymity.

False claim after woman was drunk

An other woman made a flase claim after sleeping with friends boyfriend


edit on 10/2/15 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:04 AM
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So if a woman bought me drinks and i woke up and found her to be somewhat less than desirable can i claim rape . What if both parties claim rape . He said she said .



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:09 AM
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a reply to: Anyafaj

I absolutely agree that alcohol CAN be used as a weapon, that's true, and i would advise people in general to be smart about how much they drink and who they get drinks from, and to never leave a half finished drink on the table and go to the bathroom, unless you have a friend that can keep an eye on it while you are gone.
what i'm worried about is how this will impact human interaction in general.
Say i buy a lady a drink, i will have it in the back of my mind that she might think i am planning to take advantage of her, or that her friends are looking at me, monitoring my every action to make sure i am not using a "weapon" just to get in her pants, and frankly, who the hell wants that kind of pressure? like i have to feel guilty just for trying to make a good impression on a girl i find attractive?
While i understand that it's better to always be careful, i feel like we are building a society where by default men are considered rapists and women are evil w(B)itches.
and i am not sure i like that a single bit.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:11 AM
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a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

Sexual assault is rampant. I don't think this really helps. It's trying to correct a problem after is already happened. Remove the stigma of being raped and empower people to speak out so that it stops going unreported.

This is just more useless law that doesn't really provide any kind of solution.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:15 AM
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a reply to: stumason


There does seem to be an alarming trend these days of automatic presumed guilt on behalf of the man while giving the woman no legal responsibility for her actions as long as she can claim she was drunk. Accusations like this can ruin a mans life, especially as - unlike the victim - they have no right to anonymity.


Yes, and that to me is part of a bigger issue, i mean looking at current trends it seems like it is wrong to just be a man.
A woman should be allowed to go out and do whatever she pleases and get home safe, but at the cost of making me look like some evil monster that is always ready to pounce? give me a break.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

Indeed, sexual assault is "rampant". I myself have been "sexually assaulted" at work before but when I reported it to my manager, she laughed it off an asked "why are you complaining?"

For the record, I am a bloke and the "assaulter's" were three very attractive blonde girls in my team who seemed to think they could touch my bum and make lewd remarks every time they called me over for help. Apparently, blokes can't be "sexually assaulted" and I should be "grateful for the attention", regardless of whether it is right or whether I already have a partner.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:25 AM
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originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse
a reply to: Anyafaj

I absolutely agree that alcohol CAN be used as a weapon, that's true, and i would advise people in general to be smart about how much they drink and who they get drinks from, and to never leave a half finished drink on the table and go to the bathroom, unless you have a friend that can keep an eye on it while you are gone.
what i'm worried about is how this will impact human interaction in general.
Say i buy a lady a drink, i will have it in the back of my mind that she might think i am planning to take advantage of her, or that her friends are looking at me, monitoring my every action to make sure i am not using a "weapon" just to get in her pants, and frankly, who the hell wants that kind of pressure? like i have to feel guilty just for trying to make a good impression on a girl i find attractive?
While i understand that it's better to always be careful, i feel like we are building a society where by default men are considered rapists and women are evil w(B)itches.
and i am not sure i like that a single bit.




I quite agree. I'll admit I was attacked when I was a child, and again twice during my marriage. Sadly this has skewed my view on men and their "wants" in life. I know I shouldn't let it, but it's hard not to when experience says otherwise, and this is without alcoholic involvement. When a guy pays a compliment, my first instinct is to put my guard up. I don't want to, but I've been "trained" to be this way. Because of PTSD I cannot let anyone touch me. Not a pat, and certainly not a hug. It's a very lonely way to go through life. You crave that human connection, but you fear it just the same. The only person who can touch me without me jumping out of my skin is my daughter. And of course I'm viewed a cold witch because I'm so standoffish, but it's how I must be. I know it, and I've come to accept it after so many years. By the time I thaw, I'll probably be dead.




posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:27 AM
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originally posted by: stumason
After all, if you're drunk and you drive, you're still legally responsible for your actions, so why can you not be drunk and give consent, even if you wouldn't have done so while sober? Or how someone in any other trial who was under the influence at the time of the alleged offence would have their testimony questioned and likely dismissed.

There does seem to be an alarming trend these days of automatic presumed guilt on behalf of the man while giving the woman no legal responsibility for her actions as long as she can claim she was drunk. Accusations like this can ruin a mans life, especially as - unlike the victim - they have no right to anonymity.


If you're drunk and you drive you're committing a crime. If you are drunk and are raped then you're the victim of a crime. There's the possibility that anyone can make a claim of something not being true with any accusation, it's not limited to rape.

I've been hearing that there is a trend of presumed guilt for at least 15 years, but it seems to me that the cases that get the most national media coverage are cases of rape where there was a false allegation.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:28 AM
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originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Ksihkehe

Indeed, sexual assault is "rampant". I myself have been "sexually assaulted" at work before but when I reported it to my manager, she laughed it off an asked "why are you complaining?"

For the record, I am a bloke and the "assaulter's" were three very attractive blonde girls in my team who seemed to think they could touch my bum and make lewd remarks every time they called me over for help. Apparently, blokes can't be "sexually assaulted" and I should be "grateful for the attention", regardless of whether it is right or whether I already have a partner.



What happened to you was just as wrong. Men can be assaulted to.

I'm sorry that it happened to you and that it wasn't recognized.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:30 AM
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a reply to: stumason

In the US if your supervisor responded this way and you went to HR there would either be serious consequences for all involved or you could be looking at a very nice settlement. Of course company size matters... little company with no money has no money to pay out.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:33 AM
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Been that way in the usaf for about 10 years, buy her a drink and you have set yourself up to be accused.

My advice to young men is stop hitting up the clubs, find women elsewhere, or your running the risk of being accused.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:47 AM
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Yes.
I believe that it is lawful to define drunkenly forcing oneself upon another as statutory rape.

furthermore: taking advantage of someone is rape. sex is supposed to be between two consenting adults. And consent cannot be given if one is compromised mentally, physically, etc.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:55 AM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe
If you're drunk and you drive you're committing a crime. If you are drunk and are raped then you're the victim of a crime.


You're making the assumption there that the rape took place in the first place, see the problem? If you're drunk, consent to sex but then either regret it or don't remember the next morning, you should still be legally liable for the decisions made while drunk.

But far too often, the women is given the benefit of the doubt and without having to prove she didn't consent - even without any physical evidence of said "rape" - while the man has to prove he obtained consent.

Take the furore surrounding Ched Evans in the UK. A footballer who picked up a girl on a night out, she went willingly back to the hotel room with him, had sex with him, but then the next morning claimed she was raped because she was "too drunk" to have given consent. I'm sorry, but I'll use that next time I'm caught driving drunk, shall I?

"Sorry officer, I wouldn't normally have driven under the influence, but I was too drunk to know any better"...


originally posted by: Ksihkehe
I've been hearing that there is a trend of presumed guilt for at least 15 years, but it seems to me that the cases that get the most national media coverage are cases of rape where there was a false allegation.


Because it is such a miscarriage of justice! The stigma associated with being labelled a rapist is far worse than being called a murderer.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 02:59 AM
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a reply to: Anyafaj

I got over it. If I am honest, I was flattered but I was trying to be professional as well as cover my arse (metaphorically speaking) in case one of them should make an accusation against me.


originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: stumason

In the US if your supervisor responded this way and you went to HR there would either be serious consequences for all involved or you could be looking at a very nice settlement. Of course company size matters... little company with no money has no money to pay out.


I worked for a national Cable firm and the same laws apply here, more or less. I could have take it way up the tree, but what was the point? Ruin some girls life because she pinched my bum and made lewd comments? I did what was required, informed my manager and that was as far as I was ever going to take it.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 03:05 AM
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a reply to: Anyafaj

I'm sorry to hear about that, and i get it, we just take the precautions we feel we need to take to avoid a repeat of a traumatic experience, and sometimes we just end up building a wall around ourselves.
I know the world is a scary place and not everyone out there is a friend, but like i said, i hate this idea that we will be looking at each other as a default menace, that something as natural and fun as flirting will need eye witnesses and lawyers.
And while yes, men do take advantage of women that are in a drunk state, isn't it a bit condescending to put you ladies in a position of constant victim hood?
Doesn't this all seem to say "women are not capable of taking care of themselves a single bit"?



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 03:08 AM
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originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse
Doesn't this all seem to say "women are not capable of taking care of themselves a single bit"?


Exactly. It's all getting a little bit "Saudi" with the whole "men can't control themselves" and "women need protecting" malarchy.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 03:12 AM
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a reply to: rukia

So it works both ways ... Right .



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 03:21 AM
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a reply to: stumason
I don't get it, for all this talk about equality, we are forcing men and women into these bubbles of isolation
and sorry to sound cynical, but as someone already pointed out, if you, as a guy, had sex with a woman while drunk and accused her of raping you, people will laugh it off, because it has been decided that it's impossible for a woman to rape a man, you recounted your experience in the work place and how it was dismissed.
check this out, a poignant look into our future it seems:




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