Jesus on the cross is a graven image and idolatry

a reply to: Punisher75

If apostles were not to write scripture, you would not have the new testament. Unless you don't regard it as as highly as the old testament, which is definitely not the case if you believe in Christ.

It is funny how they worship what the church sells and not the story it is based on. Worship craven images, other gods before him.( Jesus, Mary, saints ect...) Don't follow the rules set forth. Turn something created to be a good thing into evil and killing excuses. I wish all religions were abolished outside the home or church. Keep that fantasy world out of my life. You can teach others to respect one another without fantasy and fear mongering. The whole thing contradicts itself. ( Turn the other cheek / an eye for an eye ) Jesus sacrificed himself. BS. The Hebrews/ Jews wanted him dead for claiming he was the son of god and having to many followers. The begged the Romans to kill him and they did. Time to step out of the stone age. Walk upright and take responsibility for your own actions. Quit blaming it on imaginary magical beings. And a fairy tale written by primitive mankind.

Deuteronomy 4
16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman

Jesus on the cross is an image in the shape of a man, God says not to do this.

If a Christians says they do not think of Jesus or Jesus on the cross when they think of God's image, they are lying in my opinion. If Jesus is the image of God and Jesus was a man, isn't that an image in the form of a man?

Jesus is an idol and worshiping his death is death cult worship. "Do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol/image in the shape of a man." It's pretty clear that Jesus is an idol when taken in context with this verse. The verse stands on it's own, it is not taken out of context, it is its own context.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Yes God was once a man. We were created in his image. If God the Father was only a spirit, we would all only be spirits. "As man is now, God once was, and as God is man may become". God the Father and His son Jesus Christ are two seperate beings. I worship the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Please point out in scripture where it mentions the trinity. God is a completely perfected being. We are not. No unclean thing can be in the presence of God. No unclean thing can enter heaven. For those of you who don't understand the reason Christ had to atone for our sins this is why. Christ was immortal from being the Son of God. He could die, however, because being born of a mortal mother. Christ , being the Son of God, gave him the ability to take on our sins. Christ was a Spirit before, but was not the Holy Ghost. We were all spirits before, and in order to continue to progress to be like God the Father, we came to earth to receive mortal bodies. "As there be gods many, and lords many. But to us there is but one God the Father... and one Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Corinthians 8:5-6.
Logically explain the trinity in Bishop Stephens vision "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God". Or was Stephen just wrong?
" And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Peter learned that Jesus was the Christ, not by physical evidence, but by the Father sending the Spirit to testify to Peters heart. There were many who saw the physical evidence of Christ's divine nature and still denied it.
Also serving a mission is not a requirement for exaltation. That is wrong. A temple marriage is, and we perform temple marriages and other important covenants like baptism for those who have died, and never had a chance to make those covenants."Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" 1 Corinthians 15:29. "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Now concerning prophets, "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secrets unto his servants the prophets" Amos 5:7. " And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists: and some pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith" Ephesians 4:11-13. "Think not I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill" Matthew 5:17.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

While it is true that Deuteronomy is a part of the Torah in the OT and dedicated to Moses, it should also be noted that it was put together quite some time after the rest of the Pentateuch were closed, it contains quite a few odd claims (like how Moses became 120 years and a few other things) and several obvious errors likely due to it being put together centuries after the others, and it reflects a narrowed or sharpened doctrinal theological approach compared to the former four books of the Law.

Notice how Deuteronomy 1:1 starts off by declaring «These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel beyond the Jordan.» [ESV] and then at the end of the exact same book, it says Moses never crossed the Jordan, God even makes a point of that: And the LORD said to him, “This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, ‘I will give it to your offspring.’ I have let you see it with your eyes, but you shall not go over there.” [ESV] Deuteronomy 34:4

Deuteronomy has certain synoptical characteristics and was probably made to explain certain inconsistencies in the former books and to serve as a shorthand Torah for quick reference, since it contains laws and regulations picked from all the former books and put together in a new narrated course of events, a sort of Torah Crash Course.

a reply to: ParasuvO

It is very low of you to use scripture to try to prove Christians are wrong when you don't believe the scripture yourself.

You didn't come to here to inform and you didn't come here to learn. You only came to confuse, and that is nothing to be respected.

a reply to: HAZE3

There's no better way to disprove scripture than to use scripture itself. It proves itself wrong with an unbiased view while reading it.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

That isn't my point. When has it been morally okay to try to disprove and mock somebody else's faith? Those things are sacred. I'm all for asking questions, and delving into conspiracy and thinking outside your own views. But to tell somebody, that has felt the Holy Spirit, that its a joke? that isn't funny, its disrespectful.

I don't care how you candy coat it, its no longer a discussion, its an attack.

originally posted by: HAZE3
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

That isn't my point. When has it been morally okay to try to disprove and mock somebody else's faith? Those things are sacred. I'm all for asking questions, and delving into conspiracy and thinking outside your own views. But to tell somebody, that has felt the Holy Spirit, that its a joke? that isn't funny, its disrespectful.

I don't care how you candy coat it, its no longer a discussion, its an attack.

Bollocks! If your religion cannot survive the scrutiny of un-biased criticism, your religion is a dead one. You base your beliefs on the Bible, a book riddled with inconsistencies and ordering and condoning wickedness including what we today would call crimes against humanity and war crimes, and promoting a kind of Bronze-age justice that allows Christians to enforce the 613 mitzwot upon whosoever they don't like, like gays and young single mothers-- but since they themselves are Christians, they don't have to abide by these archaic regulations. And if you use the Bible to reveal their contradictory fallacies and two-faced hypocrisy, they pick the sacrilege card claiming you are of the devil and how the Bible is somehow only for Christians to read and interpret. Utter bollocks!

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

That's the thing it isn't unbiased criticism. It may have started out as a discussion but now its a bash on faith.

You say Christians are hypocrats, but brother you do not personally know any of these people on this forum who stand up for their faith. Its easy to get carried away in the hate, especially when it comes in crowds, that is still no excuse to crucify somebody for speaking up.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I have asked you this as well; what is your belief system Ut-na-piss-jism?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

What I believe is none of your f***ing business, "humanbeing" (ain't that a bloody joke).

originally posted by: HAZE3
a reply to: Punisher75

If apostles were not to write scripture, you would not have the new testament. Unless you don't regard it as as highly as the old testament, which is definitely not the case if you believe in Christ.

Thats a Straw-man I never said that the 12 apostles were not to write Scripture.
I said being an apostle in the corporate sense is about Church planting.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: vethumanbeing

What I believe is none of your f***ing business, "humanbeing" (ain't that a bloody joke).

No, my name is "veteranhumanbeing" and not a joke; you are incapable of building/proclaiming a bloody/bully pulpit (OWNING IT) standing/balancing upon (the fulcrum) saying this: "herald me serfs, see my visage; I am what I am and in my honor proclaim me as the fool of Ages" (apparently its no ones f***ing business unless its what you believe as a bloody joke).

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: HAZE3
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

That isn't my point. When has it been morally okay to try to disprove and mock somebody else's faith? Those things are sacred. I'm all for asking questions, and delving into conspiracy and thinking outside your own views. But to tell somebody, that has felt the Holy Spirit, that its a joke? that isn't funny, its disrespectful.

I don't care how you candy coat it, its no longer a discussion, its an attack.

Bollocks! If your religion cannot survive the scrutiny of un-biased criticism, your religion is a dead one. You base your beliefs on the Bible, a book riddled with inconsistencies and ordering and condoning wickedness including what we today would call crimes against humanity and war crimes, and promoting a kind of Bronze-age justice that allows Christians to enforce the 613 mitzwot upon whosoever they don't like, like gays and young single mothers-- but since they themselves are Christians, they don't have to abide by these archaic regulations. And if you use the Bible to reveal their contradictory fallacies and two-faced hypocrisy, they pick the sacrilege card claiming you are of the devil and how the Bible is somehow only for Christians to read and interpret. Utter bollocks!

You claim to have no belief system (you will admit to) at all so are not allowed an opinion; as you have no basis for comment. This would equate to an elephant (trying to speak a similar language understood) attempt to lecture a human in the understanding of what a cloud formation consisting of "water" particles is; aftermath: rainfall.

a reply to: HAZE3

Yes God was once a man. We were created in his image. If God the Father was only a spirit, we would all only be spirits. "As man is now, God once was, and as God is man may become".

Isaiah 44:6, 8:
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

Isaiah 43:10:
"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me"

Even the Book of Mormon disagrees:
Alma 11:26-29: "26And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God? 27And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God. 28Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? 29And he answered, No."

God was never a man friend:

Psalm 90:2: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God."

Again the BoM agrees:
Moroni 8:18: "For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity."

Really read and understand the verses I have sent you friend. They will show you truth if you let them.

I worship the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Please point out in scripture where it mentions the trinity. God is a completely perfected being.

Your not going to find the word trinity in scripture....the word "trinity" is a word theologians came up with to denote a concept of one being that exist in the personas. Much like a shell, a white, and a yolk make up one egg. The Father, the Son, the Spirit make up one God. If you can understand that concept, then you can see that it is littered throughout Scripture.

Now lets recall Psalm 90:2 which says God is eternal. There is also only one God(Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:6,8).

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Now the above is about as clear as it gets. Jesus was the Word and the Word was God. This is not the only reference I can give though. In John 10 a group of Jews surrounds Jesus and ask him if he is the Christ(greek word for Messiah).

Now lets look at one of the Messianic prophecies before we continue with John 10.

Isaiah 9
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, the mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The Messiah was and always has been God himself. So as I was saying in John 10 a group of jews ask Jesus if he is the Christ, to which Jesus answers:

"30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

The Jews here wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be God. So you might not believe Jesus was God, but he at least claim to be as he claimed to be the Messiah.

Now in the LDS doctrine Lucifer and Jesus are spirit brothers. How is that possible if Christ created all things via Colossians 1:16-17: "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."(You can also add John 1 in again if you like)

Now its about this time that I get the well why does Jesus talk to God the father question.

Luckily God answered that one for us too:

Philippians 2
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant(refer to Isaiah 53), and was made in the likeness of men(refer back to John 1):

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I am not going to spend a lot of time going through verse to show you the Spirit is God as well, but a simple yet quick way to show it in Scripture is we are called the temple of God because the Holy Spirit resides in us.

"As there be gods many, and lords many. But to us there is but one God the Father... and one Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Corinthians 8:5-6.

I am just going to be real. Your not going to get away with pulling verses out of context on me:

Right above the verse your trying to pretend says there are multiple Gods you find
1 Corinthians 8
"4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one."

Peter learned that Jesus was the Christ, not by physical evidence, but by the Father sending the Spirit to testify to Peters heart.

In my last post I gave you John 15:26 and told you that I was aware that the Spirits job is to testify Christ.

Also serving a mission is not a requirement for exaltation. That is wrong.

Thanks for correcting me.

."Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are theythen baptized for the dead?

You might notice Paul uses the word they here instead of we. The Church was not doing this, but Pagans. Paul' point here is simple. The resurrection is a reality. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection, if they didn't, why would they baptize for the dead?It is clear from Hebrews 9:27 that Judgement comes after Death though.

I am out of space so we will have to jump back to prophets later, but I never contradicted Amos 5 I merely gave the whole story with Amos 5 and hebrews 1

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

You base your beliefs on the Bible, a book riddled with inconsistencies and ordering and condoning wickedness including what we today would call crimes against humanity and war crimes,

I'll take that challenge. If you truly think the Bible is riddled with inconsistencies I will sit here and go through each one with you so long as you pick one and a time and we talk about it until we agree or both agree to disagree lolol.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

There's no better way to disprove scripture than to use scripture itself. It proves itself wrong with an unbiased view while reading it.

And now I see that you really do just get ideas and distort Scripture to make them fit your own belief system. This makes all your post about you being God yourself make a lot more sense.

a reply to: HAZE3

. When has it been morally okay to try to disprove and mock somebody else's faith

Trying to disprove someones faith is immoral??? Tell someone their faith is wrong is immoral?? Looks like no one told Jesus:

Matthew 23
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

But to tell somebody, that has felt the Holy Spirit, that its a joke? that isn't funny, its disrespectful.

I am not here to tell you its a joke, but to tell you that Satan can masquerade as an angel of light. If I really care about you it would be wrong of me to let you ignore truth.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

It would take days and weeks, my friend, do it yourself. If you have managed to read through the Bible without noticing the gore and stuff, like what happened at Yisreel, or for that matter, when Abraham sacrificd his son (he did, you know, the part when he changes his mind was added hundreds of years later by priests who figured God wasn't Moloch after all), or how about the crucifixion and the beheading of John? Lovely stuff, hah? No, do you know what? Since you see it as a challenge to refute all claims of divine devilishness in the Bible and defend your God as he commands genocide after genocide and orders women, children, even dogs to be slaughtered left and right, I have all the information I need concerning this, do it with your mirror or with someone who has the stomach to listen to your crap. Do it with vethumanbeing, that'll keep you both busy and occupied for a while. He's a lovely chap, you'll love him, I'm sure.