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Whats the real value of a job?

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posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: JHumm

I know man your telling me. I'm just a loser construction worker myself. I have to actually skillfully install hardwood and tile floors something any monkey with a wrench can do.


So start your own hardwood flooring business and pay your installers double what everyone else pays if you feel so strongly about your position. You won't because you know deep down hard wood flooring installers are only worth so much in a free market. To over pay your installers would drive you out of business and everyone loses.




posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

Your not understanding your looking at what were saying from a business perspective only, the bottom line, you only care about the numbers not the people.

What about the people, do you disagree with the idea that everyone should be able to live fulfilling lives while they are here or do you only care about money?




Define fulfilling lives please and thanks in advance.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated




The problem with your position is that you think you are the arbiter of determining what is fair.


No its not, thats not the problem at all. Also, please quote where i said that i am the arbiter of whats fair so i can counter you because i cant see me making that statement anywhere.

What i would consider fair is that if i have a full time employee, i take care of that person the best that i can because i want people that work for me to respect me and if i treat them the best that i can they will see that were in this together and work harder and stay with me longer. I also want to live in a community of abundance where everyone has their needs met.

i dont want to be the only rich person on the block.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

Give me a break im not playing this game with you you define it for yourself. Try and think logically about this, what are the basic needs that everyone has to have in order to be fullfilled, my list goes like this;

Friends
Family
House
Food
Free time to enjoy those things
Maybe a dog, but thats very subjective



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

I know how the current system works but that doesn't excuse it.


No one is arguing that people who don't make a lot of money are inferior as humans.

Thats exactly what its about.
if it wasn't, everyone would have the same amount and people wouldn't be hurting for necessities of life
while others parade their money for the others to look at and say "look what i have"



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

Your not understanding your looking at what were saying from a business perspective only, the bottom line, you only care about the numbers not the people.

What about the people, do you disagree with the idea that everyone should be able to live fulfilling lives while they are here or do you only care about money?


I care about people, but I also don't live in a fantasy world where everyone is equal. Life simply does not work that way. Never has and never will.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Actually i work for a small family owned business and we start everyone out higher then average and give them performance based increases.

We start 1 guy out at 10 but he worked so hard that he was given multiple raises in the first few weeks and i was part of the reason why.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Its not a fantasy world.

The real world is the world where people take care of one another and live in strong communities.

The fantasy world is the world of ego and profit margins and wall street. Thats the real fantasy world.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

Actually i work for a small family owned business and we start everyone out higher then average and give them performance based increases.

We start 1 guy out at 10 but he worked so hard that he was given multiple raises in the first few weeks and i was part of the reason why.



Why didn't you start him at $20? You are destroying your own argument.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:11 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

No I'm not and i hate to tell you but the construction market is very very competitive. The unions are still very strong and in blue collar areas theres no shortage for skilled workers.

We start him at $10 because he had no construction experience at all. At the end of the first week he was making 12.50 an hour. Still not fantastic but he gets what our budget allows for. He was then put at 15 a few weeks later.

From $10 to 15 in under a month I'd say thats pretty good.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

Its not a fantasy world.

The real world is the world where people take care of one another and live in strong communities.

The fantasy world is the world of ego and profit margins and wall street. Thats the real fantasy world.


That is incorrect.

The 'real' world is the one that nature has laid out before us. That would be a world where you pull your own weight, or your own community kills you outright, or banishes you and leaves you for dead. And, that is assuming that you have already killed enough to sustain your own existence just to get to that point.

The 'fantasy' world is the one that humanity is trying to create, in lieu of what nature provided. One where all have equal value...or should I say, at least have some value.

Nature shows us this, time and time again...we continue to believe that we are inherently different, or better, than nature. We aren't even close yet.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: peck420

No nature does not lay this out before us.

We determine our nature by the choices we make period.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: EyesOpenMouthShut

i think that when possible the worker should be paid on production , the more you produce the more you earn .

this is the way most people in the construction industry work .

i was a plasterer and i was paid by the square meter or yard , the more meters that i produced , provided it was good quality the more i earned.

now i realize that not all work can be paid on quantity and some adjustment should be made in these cases

but there should always be an financial incentive to be aimed for or the worker will do just enough to get through the day .



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Edumakated

No I'm not and i hate to tell you but the construction market is very very competitive. The unions are still very strong and in blue collar areas theres no shortage for skilled workers.

We start him at $10 because he had no construction experience at all. At the end of the first week he was making 12.50 an hour. Still not fantastic but he gets what our budget allows for. He was then put at 15 a few weeks later.

From $10 to 15 in under a month I'd say thats pretty good.


You can't even see how you are destroying your own argument with your example. It is quite hilarious. What makes you think other businesses don't have the same considerations? Your employee also showed he was worth more and you are paying him more. Suppose you hired two guys at the same time for $10/hr. One employee does as you described and quickly advances. The other employee shows up late, constantly makes mistakes, and is just a plain screw up. Does he also deserve $15/hr like employee #1?



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

He would be fired because we cant afford mistakes.

I'm not destroying my own argument. It takes years of an apprenticeship in the unions to get to $15 an hour. The problem is these commercial jobs dont always pay the squarefootage we need to hire people to pay them more because no one can afford what it really should cost because no one is getting anymore.

You see how that trend works? You see how the trickle down economics work?



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:18 PM
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we continue to believe that we are inherently different, or better, than nature. We aren't even close yet.

As the only creature that uses fire as a tool, and can change our environment into something else, i would say we were very different



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:19 PM
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The value of a job? Nothing, we're all slaves and no matter how much we "make" we're all enslaved. It doesn't matter if you're a humble person with one suit or someone seeking compensation through material wealth, slaves unless you're actually in the club.

When slaves rattle their chains when they're outraged, they're only tugging on the billions of slaves down the line.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
The value of a job? Nothing, we're all slaves and no matter how much we "make" we're all enslaved. It doesn't matter if you're a humble person with one suit or someone seeking compensation through material wealth, slaves unless you're actually in the club.

When slaves rattle their chains when they're outraged, they're only tugging on the billions of slaves down the line.

some chains are steel, some are gold.
maybe one day we will decide to just take them off



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: EyesOpenMouthShut

I hope so because regardless of the material a shackle is a shackle.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: EyesOpenMouthShut

I hope so because regardless of the material a shackle is a shackle.


Like the computer your shackled to now?



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