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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: lonesomerimbaud
What is the problem, Ladies?
The problem has been a patriarchal system that has oppressed women for thousands of years. Women have had to fight this political and religious system every step of the way to even be taken seriously as a human, instead of someones property or pet. In America, women couldn't vote until around 1920. The first female to hold public office was around the same time I think. The list is endless. Women weren't even considered serious academics.
It isn't that women have been so silent. It's that they have been silenced. They are still being discriminated against today. Especially by the patriarchal religions.
I don't think women have a hard time discussing anything intellectually. Most of the smartest people I've ever met were women.
originally posted by: kaylaluv
Men didn't have to fight, kick and push their way through.
"Men literally cannot listen as well as women, because a man's mind focuses more on perceiving, or understanding a thing, instead of feeling, and becoming a thing. Men cannot multitask as well as women, because they are so singularly focused on perceiving. Men cannot nurture as well as women, because they think with their mind, instead of feeling with their hearts. And men damn sure can't be as beautiful or tantalizing as women, as their bodies are the image of conception, or fruition, whereas a man's is just the image of a seeder or phallic."
originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: orangetom1999
I understand & agree with your points to an extent, however a main point seems to be in the discretionary spending aspect of it. I think the existence of a disparity based, materialistic society is the true oppressor of both sexes.
It's not that women can't be intellectual, it's more that they, for whatever reason, are more naturally inclined toward materialism & integration into society.
I used to make this joke: if okcupid taught me one thing, it's that all women are the same but think they're different. They love dancing, travel, & the beach. If I was as pathetically desperate & horny as every other guy on this website, I could fake all these things too. (Yes, that was actually a line on my dating profile, I spit game yo)
As sexist as this may sound, the only sex I have anything against are men. While maybe not as easily addicted to "modern reality", they are far more responsible for the propagation of long term conditioning & oppression.
I actually find that mental skill is not just "natural" for everyone, neither men nor women. It must be developed.
Are there some hard wired differences in the workings of the male and female brains which influence what we are perceiving here?
I don't perceive such a huge void in literary production, between the sexes. I do, however, see a cultural value which is higher upon masculine type of literature.
A difference we see often between the majority of males and females is focus upon object (for men) and focus upon relation (for women).
I perceive that the US culture devalues feminine type of thinking.
The derogatory references to "gossip" and "romance novels" and "chick flicks" show were the void isn't.
Maternal type of leadership is devalued (don't need to illustrate that much- "nanny state" and "socialism" is all I need to say), paternalization is valued (the masculine type of education which works through opposition, challenging the individual to provoke him to "stand up", project himself, or toughen up). So you will see more male leaders, or females who have highly developed masculine skills.
These kinds of contrasts really only became evident to me once I left the US. I bet some will call it rubbish and nonsense. That's fine. It is just my own personal view at this time.
originally posted by: orangetom1999
For me it is often object for men...problem solving...ie..running touchdowns...and women...feelings...in order to get someone else to take the RISK and solve the problem for them.
This is, in certain books, called Occult..hidden concealed. Not known by those it is going to affect. Getting others on the bandwagon as if it was their idea all along...by manipulating their feelings and emotions!!
Now observe carefully much of what has become of the feminist movements.
..to observe for someone trying to manipulate my feelings.
originally posted by: orangetom1999
I look at a number of people I have known for whom you ask them a question which requires thought ..a moral or ethical question and they quickly reference a movie or television program they have watched.
You realize that they have few real life experiences or the thoughts which accompany them...but have instead substituted television, movie, and even book programming for independent thought.
And now that you are feminizing the males as well???? What is going to happen???
You cannot get things done in a world where most are worried about "Feeliings" and the feminine. They quickly become competitors for "Feelings and sensitivities" not working in cooperation but how to get someone else to take the risks while they sit back and direct.
Feminism is also the basis for Occult power and control in this world.
It is the basis of todays pseudo excellence called PC or Political Correctness which is amounting to censorship/control and not liberty and freedom.
originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: Bluesma
In summation, men think that when a woman talks to them, she's interested. That strikes me as the epitome of a patriarchally favored society.
The biggest problem I see with this, is women have become so inclined towards not trying to "stimulate neurons" that they've forgotten how to show a man their interested. The common culture of women *not* making the first move, even if she's interested, is one of the worst outcomes of a patriarchal society.
Maybe I'm just weird for being solely attracted to strong, vocal, assertive women.
Dependency upon another person is risk taking and I found it very scary.
I had pretty much total confidence in my ability to live and get along fine physically without a man.
Two- Which brings me to the second point- why some men do this. It was not to get sex- he was getting that.
I see this in young men often- a desire to become a man who faces risks and challenges and is victorious, and they choose a mate to help them in this endeavor of self creation. When things get rocky, and sometimes they blame that appointed muse, forgetting it was their choice of path in the first place!
Ah, then I see this, and recognize it is within this context that you shall read what I have written. Nothing I can do about that then, even if I asked my husband to come here and bare witness to what I have said, you'd probably say he had been manipulated by me to believe it himself. All you can do is really look inside and see if, as a young man, you didn't have the urge to face challenges and test your strength and abilities in real life situations....
I don't really know much of current feminist movements in the US, I was exposed to it in the '70's, but am not sure what is going on now... I will refrain from making comments based in ignorance!
Feminism does not come into play in cultures who do not repress feminine characteristics. I noticed here, women don’t feel any need for it. Things become hidden or occult, when they are repressed. Taboo effect. The same reason America has the biggest taboo on sex, and yet simultaneously the biggest porn industry, and sexualize even breast feeding or nudity. Or another example- extreme religiosity creates extreme atheism. Activist atheists do not exist where there is no activist religiosity.
I have started a thread on this subject, because the word manipulate means "to move". Now, that is not always negative, when you give someone a hug, or kind word, you manipulate their feelings. It is not always done in hidden ways.
We established a relationship of interdependence, in which both took risks, materially, physically and emotionally. It was a lesson and exercise in development of trust and respect.
Even having kids- you say women avoid physical risk out of fear for their beauty? You seem to have forgotten the risks of childbearing, the pain, and the unavoidable damage it does to our body! If we are objects on the market to you, as you say, we fall into the damaged goods mark down bin after that, and we know it.
This is what I referred to as the problem of devaluing social relations. Instead of interacting with other people, they sit in front of a movie or book about social relations.
It is safer, easier, and we are encouraged to do so by those who want to make money off of our natural social instincts.
But I see it that American culture has masculinized females- teaching them to think of themselves as objects, teaching them to be competitive and oppositional, teaching them that being aggressive is acceptable, being vulnerable is not, living social bonds, and determining ethic and moral through movies is acceptable, but doing so with each other is not. (that is the best way to make a good capitalist consumer and mindless citizen).
Choice making is the most important part of intellectual development.
I kinda think most men like when women are strong vocal and assertive. Even when there is an initial reaction of feeling provoked negatively, they usually get rather turned on by that after a few minutes.
I always found the big problem with this is that if I am actually interested in a man, that assertiveness leaves me, and I can't think anymore. My body sort of tunes out my brain.
So the sad part of it all is- what many men find exciting and a sign that a woman is interested,
is often the complete opposite- a sign they aren't, and are gonna end up saying the dreaded words, "I just loove you....as a friend."
...the basic assumption/default setting here in America is that only the female risks so much. Not so.
It so seldom ever comes up that a man takes great RISK in the woman he chooses...or makes himself vulnerable.
As I have stated..his feelings don't count or matter..they are expendable and disposable.
A woman who can take care of herself ..is also a woman who can come to a man for love only.
As to sex...that is the dumbest reason to get married...male or female.
Older women understand competition far more acutely than most..as they are also fighting time...Pumkin time for many of them Cinderella. Talk about vulnerabilities. Many of these women will hunt you down..
The only question is ..what do they really offer in the marketplace against the competition..what real intrinsic value do they bring to the table. Piece verses Peace.
What woman wants a man who is higher maintenance than she or her and children???? Or would she prefer a man who can take RISKS ..carefully calculated risks ...in hard times...as well as good times.
Most women I have ever known want a man who is already made..not one they have to help make.
Please stop....this is not worthy of your excellent post to date. I believe you can do much better than this type of insecurity.
The women I have mostly seen over the years do not ask or factor in what risks I take when I am spending my monies on them.They do not ask how many "feelings" I have to suppress in order to accomplish these goals.
I hardly believe that todays women are arguing for that much equality.
Stop...stop again BluesMa...Stop. You mean this does not happen to men??? Their bodies and minds wearing out??? Unavoidable damage to men??? Spiritually as well as physically??? This is not worthy of you and your intellect…. this of which you describe is not a one sex thing.
More men ought to realize this but they are to busy thinking about running touchdowns to get it. They really can be dumb at times. By the way..men really do deceive themselves about a lot of things. Most have no idea how subtle some women can be.
Now if people can only catch on to the rest of the professional victimizers and such predators.
I'm glad to hear this..it means that women there take more RISKs than do they here. They are more equal.
By custom..by social constructs....what is it a woman brings to a man which is protected or maintained in some form if she dies first??? After all..her body wears out so rapidly...she in love must be protecting something for her man if she dies first??? What security blanket does she provide for him if she goes first..after all..equality is taking place!!!
talk about merchandizing ..I will not be rushing out to watch this latest social engineering project called "Fifty Shades of Idiot."
I wont be rushing out to watch "American Sniper" as well to stimulate me to run touchdowns. Same with the Grey idiot movie.
I think you mean "responsible " choice making here. Not choice making with the proviso that someone else is responsible for keeping the safety net moved so that we never have to hit the concrete if we fall.