Do Women Find It Difficult Communicating Intellectually?

Intellectually speaking, I think men & women are equal in terms of verbally expressing themselves. The difference seems to be the ability to put it into written form. From what I've seen & read from female writers and friends who think they're "talented" writers, women in general don't do so well in the descriptive sense in writing at all beyond painting emotions out. They're more focused on the emotional preface, and not much else beyond that. An emotionally descriptive lead-in is one thing, but without highly descriptive follow-ups to build the entire picture, the writing simply falls apart on it's own. Some of the worst books & fan fics I've read are by women. If you want a good fluffy tear-jerker, though, women got that nailed. For an in-depth storyline with vivid place descriptions, complex social descriptions, an inside perspective of & from the protagonist, I find that male writers capture those aspects the best.

I guess you can call me the girl who dislikes reading female-written books. The aspects women focus on in writing don't appeal to me, and the end products of their efforts seem shorted or empty overall. Of course there's always going to be a few who knock it out of the ballpark, but I consider them more rare than anything.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Women do not lack any intellect, and in fact may have the upper hand on men in this case, but by judging from art, musical and literary history, it seems men have the upper hand in creativity.

You wish

:-)

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Yes, I am challenging you big time. I want you to come out the closet with men. I want you to have an intelligent and equal voice. I want you to have no fear when talking with males, that you may become as open and unabashed as your male counterparts.

I want you to do some actual thinking and apologize for your OP

Famous Females Who Have Used Male Pen Names

Throughout history, many female writers have felt the need to write under a male pseudonym. In fact, this is not a practice that’s confined to the past: even today, female authors have still experience pressure by publishers, editors and the public to mask their identity in order to be taken more seriously in the literary world thanks to age-old stereotypes about what women are capable of writing. The practice of adopting a male nom de plume continues to be especially prevalent nowadays in the genres of science fiction, fantasy and crime, which have been traditionally considered “masculine” topics to write about.

As Virginia Woolf once suggested in “A Room of One’s Own,” these female authors who cloaked their identity with a male name were victims of “inner strife” and sought to “veil themselves by using the name of a man.” From historical authors such as Louisa May Alcott and the Brontë sisters, to present-day writers including JK Rowling and Nora Roberts, the practice of a woman taking up a masculine name has certainly lasted. In fact, some of these authors are even more famous by their male names than their real ones, testament to how effective a pen name can be.

All the world's a stage - but it's hard to perform on a stage that's been built by men for men

Things have changed quite a bit - try to keep up

a reply to: Nyiah

Heh, this is why I am trying to get my husband prodded into writing with me. I can come up with a plot overview and I can come up with characters and love to work out the intricacies of interaction. I also love to come up with small vignettes where my characters are in scenes. But, I am hopeless at action which is where my husband has his strength. Between the two of us, I always thought we could come up with something good.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Yes, I am challenging you big time. I want you to come out the closet with men. I want you to have an intelligent and equal voice. I want you to have no fear when talking with males, that you may become as open and unabashed as your male counterparts.

I want you to do some actual thinking and apologize for your OP

Famous Females Who Have Used Male Pen Names

Throughout history, many female writers have felt the need to write under a male pseudonym. In fact, this is not a practice that’s confined to the past: even today, female authors have still experience pressure by publishers, editors and the public to mask their identity in order to be taken more seriously in the literary world thanks to age-old stereotypes about what women are capable of writing. The practice of adopting a male nom de plume continues to be especially prevalent nowadays in the genres of science fiction, fantasy and crime, which have been traditionally considered “masculine” topics to write about.

As Virginia Woolf once suggested in “A Room of One’s Own,” these female authors who cloaked their identity with a male name were victims of “inner strife” and sought to “veil themselves by using the name of a man.” From historical authors such as Louisa May Alcott and the Brontë sisters, to present-day writers including JK Rowling and Nora Roberts, the practice of a woman taking up a masculine name has certainly lasted. In fact, some of these authors are even more famous by their male names than their real ones, testament to how effective a pen name can be.

All the world's a stage - but it's hard to perform on a stage that's been built by men for men

Things have changed quite a bit - try to keep up

I agree. The OP was created to inflame. I wonder how a similar OP would be received if it substituted a race (any race) for women?

originally posted by: Nyiah
Intellectually speaking, I think men & women are equal in terms of verbally expressing themselves. The difference seems to be the ability to put it into written form. From what I've seen & read from female writers and friends who think they're "talented" writers, women in general don't do so well in the descriptive sense in writing at all beyond painting emotions out. They're more focused on the emotional preface, and not much else beyond that. An emotionally descriptive lead-in is one thing, but without highly descriptive follow-ups to build the entire picture, the writing simply falls apart on it's own. Some of the worst books & fan fics I've read are by women. If you want a good fluffy tear-jerker, though, women got that nailed. For an in-depth storyline with vivid place descriptions, complex social descriptions, an inside perspective of & from the protagonist, I find that male writers capture those aspects the best.

I guess you can call me the girl who dislikes reading female-written books. The aspects women focus on in writing don't appeal to me, and the end products of their efforts seem shorted or empty overall. Of course there's always going to be a few who knock it out of the ballpark, but I consider them more rare than anything.

Huh? What have you been reading, romance novels? Name some women authors whose work you have read.

*raises hand* i'm a woman. people have read my stuff.

here's a couple examples

Enoch's Dudael
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dumb Old Lady vs. Ancient Aliens Debunked
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Tangerine

I agree. The OP was created to inflame.

:-) I starred your post - you know - for the sisterhood

But, I should say - after reading through the whole thread - I'm not sure that we're not looking at some regular, old fashioned leftover views from someone that doesn't actually mean to be condescending (unlike - ahem - some others...)

Who knows for sure where he's coming from. This thread has been a pretty fun read - and that will teach me (for the umpteenth time) to read first - get mad later

As this has been said already on the thread, I'll keep it shorter than usual.

Women HAVE invented and written stuff of equal or superior nature to men... it's just that in our recent society they had a subservient position and thus published through their husbands or pseudonyms, or weren't published at all...

Let's give them a millennia or two of equality and revisit this argument then.

ETA and would like to add that if any sex has a greater tendency towards lesser interpersonal communication, it is males.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

We can measure the amount of invention made by the male gender in contrast to the invention of the female gender. The scales might be a little lopsided.

In what instances were women suppressed from making things?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I'm just judging by history. Don't mind me.

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
On ATS possibly 90% of contributing members are male.

That could either be a good thing or a bad thing for us males, depending on how you look at it. I've noticed with this site and others that women are more apt to actually think things through before they post instead of just blabbing away like they know what they're talking about when they really don't.

I'm just saying that's what I've noticed.

a reply to: undo
I read a few of your ebooks years ago, as well as your threads here, and enjoyed all of it. Your knowledge of the topic is quite impressive, and you write well.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: undo
I read a few of your ebooks years ago, as well as your threads here, and enjoyed all of it. Your knowledge of the topic is quite impressive, and you write well.

ty! see, op is wrong. women do write and people do read what they write. may not always agree with it or like it, but they do write and it gets read.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Tangerine

I agree. The OP was created to inflame.

:-) I starred your post - you know - for the sisterhood

But, I should say - after reading through the whole thread - I'm not sure that we're not looking at some regular, old fashioned leftover views from someone that doesn't actually mean to be condescending (unlike - ahem - some others...)

Who knows for sure where he's coming from. This thread has been a pretty fun read - and that will teach me (for the umpteenth time) to read first - get mad later

I'm pretty sure, although not absolutely certain, where's he's coming from. Other posters have made the thread fun and informative. The usual woman-haters have chimed in, too.

a reply to: Nyiah

I'm still waiting for that list of women authors you've read and found lacking in comparison to male authors. A list of some of the male authors you prefer would be nice, too.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I'm just judging by history. Don't mind me.

The past - in certain respects - belonged to men

The future belongs to all of us

Seems a little needy to be continually pointing out how superior men are... Especially if you're only riding coattails Les

:-)

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

And it seems a little desperate to point out the opposite, riding a bonnet. But carry on.

I'm a mighty strange bird.
I'm a woman, but I'm not afraid to talk like a man or gossip when it suits me. Intellectual debates are increasingly hard to find. My local friends are too easily offended, even if it's just a fun back-and-forth.
I can see both sides of the fence, and enjoy playing devil's advocate.

Other internet forums are infested with misogynistic trolls, so here I am at ATS.

I'm a WWII historian and can be guaranteed to stick my nose in those threads. Guys often seem uncomfortable with my interest in military psychology.

My fiction writing is richly descriptive and I can create characters who are just as alive as we are.

I'm very open minded and laid back in my points of view. I like to learn, and I'm happy to cede if I'm wrong about something.

I do sometimes feel awkward for the simple fact that I can bounce between genders and be treated as an equal by both. I'm a chameleon.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That's just the thing though Les - nobody did point out the opposite

:-)

Nice try though