Important -- how to in 10 sec shut up a ProVaccine person

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

Nice non sequitur bro. Do you pick random words out of a hat to string together?

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Ever heard of The Wisdom of Crowds?

In 1907, Sir Francis Galton asked 787 villagers to guess the weight of an ox. None of them got the right answer, but when Galton averaged their guesses, he arrived at a near perfect estimate. This is a classic demonstration of the “wisdom of the crowds”, where groups of people pool their abilities to show collective intelligence. Galton’s story has been told and re-told, with endless variations on the theme. If you don’t have an ox handy, you can try it yourself with beans in a jar.

My thoughts are the reason people were (and still are, sans research,) prone to believing autism was related to vaccinations is because on some level people understand that the science is to some degree incomplete, especially regarding recently released vaccines. What people want and will probably never get is a thorough understanding of the long-term effects, if any, holistically-speaking of anything they elect to put into their children. Perhaps the issue is, albeit unrecognized by most or inadequately expressed if recognized, is that debunking a link between a condition and the vaccine is not the same as providing 100% assurance the vaccine will have zero unmentioned side-effects. I don't know if we could ever have such assurance, so the base-context of the argument for "anti-vaxxers" is a devil you know vs. the devil you don't. So I hope this helps in trying to understand the minds of people who decline. Note that I didn't say that this mindset is the most beneficial given our time and civilization type but it is far from crazy as most on the other side of the debate will freely express.

Returning to civilization type, I would also like to state that those who have fears of side-effects are caught up, like most of us, in the inertia of our culture. The herd is angry at the non-vaxxers but what could be said of the minority who understands that before we contributed to densely populated, disease-spreading, concentrations of mostly unhappy consumers, the argument of herd immunity was irrelevant. It is from this base-line existence, we were all born into, that people still reserve their right to choose and no product of the malleability of culture supersedes the purest from of humans which should enjoy all the benefits of full sovereignty. I am in most instances pro-vaccination, but I would be less so had I the choice to will away the unsustainable, CAFO-resembling, species-wide suicide that is our culture, and we rather returned to manageable community sizes in which the knowledge of your neighbors greatly adds to your ability to avoid contracting spreading diseases. Forming these communities in our era is both essential for survival in the long-term and equally extremely difficult to pull off. Telling someone who disagrees with the edicts their surrounding culture presses onto them to "just move away" is easier said than done given the fact that changing the direction of the ship takes time and almost all of us were born on the Titanic with little power to find a lifeboat with the power bestowed to one generation.

a reply to: SlickMcFavorite

What people want and will probably never get is a thorough understanding of the long-term effects, if any, holistically-speaking of anything they elect to put into their children.

Science is working on it.
For example, about 10 years ago I attended a seminar about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

Everyone knows NOW that smoking and drinking and drugging while pregnant, or taking certain medicines (like anti-nausea meds for morning sickness) is a BAD IDEA. And that junk food is relatively unhealthy. And not to eat or breathe mold. Or drink oven cleaner. Also - to clean up your house and so on and so forth.

People are getting it.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: NihilistSanta

Ever heard of The Wisdom of Crowds?

In 1907, Sir Francis Galton asked 787 villagers to guess the weight of an ox. None of them got the right answer, but when Galton averaged their guesses, he arrived at a near perfect estimate. This is a classic demonstration of the “wisdom of the crowds”, where groups of people pool their abilities to show collective intelligence. Galton’s story has been told and re-told, with endless variations on the theme. If you don’t have an ox handy, you can try it yourself with beans in a jar.

If we follow this logic then how large a crowd is necessary for "anti-vaxxer" estimates to be considered true? I don't follow that logic but apparently you do.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I agree and I am hopeful of the future of understanding in which the scientific method has its place and there is much we do know thanks to rationality.

But the issue is, if approached in full humble honesty, a work-in-progress and pointing this out was my goal is bringing context to a contentious debate floundering in our exceptional ability to make cartoons of one another.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Read the article I linked.

Looks to me already that the anti-vaxers are WAY outnumbered - and for very good, valid, proven, scientific reasons.

Because at least HALF of the people are above "C student" level, and accept the common sense offered by having seat-belts, and airbags, and antilockbreaks, and not using a gas-powered appliance inside ---
not eating wild mushrooms (unless you are an expert) - not licking the skin of an Ebola patient - not standing in water while you turn on your shaver - and getting your vaccinations are GOOD IDEAS. Not rocket science. Common sense.


etc etc

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Common sense is not as common as you believe nor as sensical. Healthy skepticism would be a type of common sense. Not blind obedience. You should check out this post and try to look at the issue outside the lens of your bias. John Oliver's Take on Big Pharma Always follow the money.


I make a retraction I misread your post. Time for me to take a break and re-examine the issue later.

10 seconds to shut up a blind vaxxer

there are many ways one of which is cyanide in their vaccine shot.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Hi Dick.

So why would Pharma do that? they don't want us to die...then they wouldn't have anyone to sell too.
Or is it you wanting to do that?.

Cya Dick.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Hmmm.
Nope! I've reread my posts in the thread. I retract nothing. I don't "hate" people who do or don't perform their own research and attempt to learn what they are freaked out about.

Knowledge is power.

If someone makes a choice not to wear a seatbelt ( I do not advise this) how does it concern you?

It doesn't, so much as it concerns THEM risking their own lives, and the lives of their passengers.
What about "drunk drivers"? How do THEY concern me?
I'm not going to bother to give you the answer.

How do you know that they also do not believe in vaccinations?

I don't. I know that they are willing to risk their lives (and the lives of their passengers).

You are just here to spew hatred towards people that you deem less intelligent than yourself with no basis in reality.

No - I'm here to add my knowledge to the crowd.

Come off of the superiority complex and you might see how your post in regards to groups is hurting your position.

I don't think it is.
Sorry. You don't have to shut up, and neither do I.
The simple fact of the matter is that there is an 'average' intelligence of human beings. I won't go into what various kinds of 'intelligences' there are here, but there are many.

I am not 'spewing hatred' - I am doing my level best to bring people to their senses. Just like you are.

It's just that what I consider 'sensible' is not, apparently, what you do. BTW, I was taught critical thinking. I'm good at it.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Not blind obedience. You should check out this post and try to look at the issue outside the lens of your bias. John Oliver's Take on Big Pharma Always follow the money.
edit on 9-2-2015 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)


I make a retraction I misread your post. Time for me to take a break and re-examine the issue later.

Fair enough. I watch Jon Stewart and John Oliver. I do pay attention. Talk to you later.

a reply to: boymonkey74

you are right i forgot about the slow kill method that causes return trips to the hospitol and gives us a way to create an economy based on poisoning us.

a little bit of poison is acceptable to the blind vaccers but lets not get crazy and od any future customers.

later young monkey

a reply to: deadeyedick

We breath in poison every breath we take.
But I vaccines have saved millions of lives are people refuting this?.
Cya later you big ole whale

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: NihilistSanta

Ever heard of The Wisdom of Crowds?

In 1907, Sir Francis Galton asked 787 villagers to guess the weight of an ox. None of them got the right answer, but when Galton averaged their guesses, he arrived at a near perfect estimate. This is a classic demonstration of the “wisdom of the crowds”, where groups of people pool their abilities to show collective intelligence. Galton’s story has been told and re-told, with endless variations on the theme. If you don’t have an ox handy, you can try it yourself with beans in a jar.

Right, so you are saying that we should canvas the population and ask "would you like to lose all or some of your rights?" and then take the average answer, implement the edict and celebrate democracy!

a reply to: greencmp

Right, so you are saying that we should canvas the population and ask "would you like to lose all or some of your rights?" and then take the average answer, implement the edict and celebrate democracy!

Something like that.
But perhaps you're too shallow to see that we already have the semblance of that. That's what it's SUPPOSED to be. But gain, sadly, the 'population' is not playing on a level field.

Unfortunately, the big-bucks-club can bribe legislators to go along with what THEY want - and lots of people DON'T vote - so, between registered voter turnout and PACs, the people's wishes are, well - irrelevant.

You can try to defuse the bomb that is the ticking "99%ers" if you like. But - it's here.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I rest my case, your honor.

If creating lifetime dependent consumers that produced Symptoms/Diseases B,C,D through Z because you started taking chemical concotion A being " Help " then yeah you're right on...otherwise...yeah not quite...

a reply to: Denoli