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Why I Cannot Accept Any Religion

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posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 04:13 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: mOjOm

I have, yes. Thank you for remembering. I'm glad someone read it.

So it is with all spirituality. the true art of spirituality is in the creation of principles, rather than the adopting of them. We are all tongue-tied prophets, but not too many can loosen the knot.

A materialist puts his belief in abstractions. The truly spiritual see and hear and taste and touch.
Working with abstraction is figuring out what is what by comparing this with that.
What is there actually?
Is there a separate hearer to that which appears to be heard?
Is there hearing and the knowing that there is?
edit on 8-2-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 08:55 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney

Lots of interesting posts. But as you say, they tend to wander from the original point of the thread.

Returning to that original post, I noticed then and comment now on the fact that you use 'religion' as opposed to what many would say 'organized religion'. I'm sure that was deliberate on your part and ask for a clarification on it.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney One more point, I'd like to make. You post implies/suggests a finality, an announcement.

A possibility you may have missed-correct me if I'm wrong on this-is my 'tool' analogy. It's time to put the 'tool' of religion down. Not to discard it or marginalize it. Rather move in a balancing direction of self. Outside the 'after the fact' limitations imposed on and by those religions.

I am a trucker. I park the damn thing and feel relief when the day is done. I am not the truck. The truck will wear out and be recycled into something else. I will remain. The truck was useful and will be again, I'm sure-like tomorrow, LOL- so it's, for you, time to put the tool down.

It can be useful for others and even perhaps yourself at some point in the future...who knows?

Religion and the study of IS enlightening both directly from the originating prophet and indirectly in understanding the limitations they also impose.....accepted or not.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Point well taken but let me ask you a question without getting religious...... After looking around this planet and understanding that it is impossible that all life, in the air, on the ground and in the water including all plant life etc... started accidentally, by chance, or by design?

Do you believe that there is a creator....... a God?


See, this may(or may not) be an example of this semantic model thing I was talking about. Because, from my perspective it is a false dichotomy. I feel there is meaning and purpose in existence, but I feel that it is implicit within existence itself, as opposed to designed by an outside force. God is the source of all things, but is also imminent in all things. Physical reality is the outer boundary of God. Existence is a manifestation of God, rather than created by. Though you could say there is a creative intelligence which lies in the depths of all manifested objects and beings. This view puts me at odds with many, as theist vs. atheist is a widely accepted dichotomy which my views don't exactly align with. Thus the atheists see me as theistic and the theists see me as atheistic. lol.




You’re excluding Gods freedom to create; as well as our freedom to create

To me creation is not only existential to God’s being but also an attribute or matrix of life. It has its own world in a sense.

And is mysteriously wrapped up in what's known as the fall of man...

I define this as the secret behind the myth of the Garden of Eden. Indeed mixed up in this mystery is the secret of creation

SO I SAY CREATION IS A CURROPTION OF God in a sense
Or corruption is somewhat existential to creation, therefore the advent of evil

edit on 8-2-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney
I find that all 'beliefs' to be invalid. Beliefs are ensconced in hubris.
My view is that in looking at what lies before us, the Universe, there are no absolutes. Mathematics, philosophy, law and religion are possessed by dualisitic thinking. These are all constructions made by our far less than infinite minds. While they are effective as guidelines, they do not dictate which is observed.
Everything is merely shades of gray, not black or white.
Religions attempt to be deterministic about that which is ineffable. Atheists are of the same ilk.
Einstein employed thought experiments to help sort through complexities. (I am not comparing myself to him.) If it was good enough for him, it certainly is good enough for me and perhaps yourselves. So I give you these posers.
If there is a god, why would he feel that he needed to allow us complete comprehension of his works? How can we define the purpose of such a being? If he chose not to reveal himself how would we know?
If we choose strict observation of the perceivable, what do we actually see?
The Universe wants and demands its evolvement. Every observation demonstrates this.
That's it. Evolve or die. There is no steady state, only the current state, the now. The pressure is insurmountable for this set of processes to occur. Recognition of this permits us to utilize that (imperfect) knowledge to allow us to perhaps guide our evolvement and sustain our species.
To evolve you need a fairly stable platform. Otherwise, it's just chaos.
Failure to understand this sole fundamental permits blind happenstance to happen. Since this will most likely lead to our extinction (The Universe WILL kill you eventually.) our efforts to plan rationally can forestall that inevitable outcome.
This does not deny spirituality (I have had unusual experiences not explainable by commonly accepted means.) but instead accepts that the unknown will always be part of this existence because we are TOO limited to comprehend it all.
If there is a god he tells you indeed that these rules are in place. If there isn't a god, the rules are still here.
Functionally there is no difference. We will remain ignorant of the full content of Universe. No system according to information theory can completely understand itself. The block of tissue in your skull is just way to infinitesimal to pull in the data and allow the reckoning of it all.
So why believe BS about someone who says they have?
It's just not possible for us to work it all out. There are general rules (Don't jump off tall buildings.) and judicious applications will benefit us.
Attempting to use rules invented by us (those guys over there are our enemies because they aren't like us) is just evolution at work. Stupidities generated by a lack of thought and facts.
So have very limited beliefs, no opinions and contemplate merely having positions. Positions can be altered because they are based on imperfect knowledge. There is no dependency on absolutes, which is demonstrably false.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 11:37 AM
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Almost sounds like you are proclaiming your intellectual superiority over religious people.

Or it could be that you are throwing up your hands and shouting 'I just don't understand! Someone help me.'

If it's the latter then you are looking for guidance in the wrong place, friend.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: largo

Interesting post. I agree with a lot of it.

Yet your opening statement say all beliefs are invalid. Validity isn't germane. Beliefs exist, they are a factor in this universe and can and do influence what thee and me have to deal with.

You statement is, in fact, a belief in itself. Even with my general agreement, which matters not one whit either way, the whole post falls into the area code of belief. Be it analytically concluded or motivated by faith.

That's the problem with threads, one's own certainty can become eroded by others views...a lousy place if one is looking for reassuring agreement....LOL



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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Belief is only a proposition that one hasn’t yet arrived at certainty

What’s wrong with belief?
At least one is being honest

The problem with religion is not belief but the pretension by some believers that they have the truth and in-fact all they have is belief.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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Belief is imperfect by nature
edit on 8-2-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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I think inferring (thinking) anything beyond what is experienced is speculation (not to say aspects of reality cannot be inferred); but I think it should be seen as such - that it is inference (or thought) and not necessarily reality or truth.

The only true or certain reality is what is experienced.
edit on 8-2-2015 by nOraKat because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Point well taken but let me ask you a question without getting religious...... After looking around this planet and understanding that it is impossible that all life, in the air, on the ground and in the water including all plant life etc... started accidentally, by chance, or by design?

Do you believe that there is a creator....... a God?


See, this may(or may not) be an example of this semantic model thing I was talking about. Because, from my perspective it is a false dichotomy. I feel there is meaning and purpose in existence, but I feel that it is implicit within existence itself, as opposed to designed by an outside force. God is the source of all things, but is also imminent in all things. Physical reality is the outer boundary of God. Existence is a manifestation of God, rather than created by. Though you could say there is a creative intelligence which lies in the depths of all manifested objects and beings. This view puts me at odds with many, as theist vs. atheist is a widely accepted dichotomy which my views don't exactly align with. Thus the atheists see me as theistic and the theists see me as atheistic. lol.


So without putting words in your mouth by the statements you made above:



God is the source of all things, but is also imminent in all things.


You believe there is a God. Great.

My friend that is one step closer to God. So when you are ready.....take the next step.

It does not take religion to see that there is a God. The only thing left to consider is wether you want a relationship with him or not.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer

Right.

If it was not for the fact that religions tell us what God to look for, or that an actual PATH exists, we would not stay in this type of reality at all.

Thing is, until you fully realize every option of thought, you will not see that the Universe is far more complex than "GOD" created all this for a purpose, and you may realize that no actual decision was made to do this, by the one you seek.

Tough I know, but we will make it possible for you to see this reality DAM SOON.

So shockingly limited are the options to those who follow religion, how unlike the Creative Source that the religions are hiding.

Yes, the religions are the tools of some very advanced beings who have an agenda they are following, because in the religion they follow they are just doing "GODS" wishes as well.

It would do well to realize that the path to religion in the end leads to nowhere, and since it does actually DAMAGE the pursuit to actual truth and freedom, all the while making out to be better than anything else, and claiming it can save, we are going to blow it so wide open it will dissolve as if it never existed.......at all.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 06:24 PM
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Many of you guys are hard on religion.

It may be justified

I think it’s just another theory and philosophy of life. And there is good religion and bad religion according to the practitioner’s character.

Isn’t it unfair to characterize ALL religion as bad?

I myself look at not religion buy humans as the problem



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 02:56 AM
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a reply to: TheJourneyThe journey and adventure of discovery is for the individual, but remember this, not everything you seek or see will lead to an understanding of what we are, how we got here, and where we are going. In Indonesia two clerics interviewed me for my wedding there, they asked if I was a Muslim, I answered with knowledge of who I am, what I know, and what I know of religion. I am a Muslim, and a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu, after an hour conversation with the clerics I got married with their blessings. I no longer believe in G_D I know him, for me it was a long journey. Good luck.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney

Nice post. I feel the same. No one religion is 100% correct. All religions are translations from a higher reality (spiritual) to a lower one (material). As with any translation, something is lost. The other problem with religion is that it is such a personal experience that it is hard to fully explain to others. Especially those outside your given religion.

You are correct, in my opinion, that the approach to God is many sided. One could not be labeled as the right path over another. All too often people focus on the differences of religions where they should be looking at what is similar. I believe God wants unity, not uniformity.

With that said I think you should check out the Urantia Book. (www.urantia.org...) It is a book that helps individuals find God in their own way. It's a sort of guide. I highly recommend it.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: TheJourney
Not the label which you choose to identify with, which is the most surface-level, or material, aspect of spirituality.


You make valid points. Why did you choose the symbol of taoism as your avatar then ?



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 02:07 PM
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I have always felt that the best way to incorporate religious beliefs is to remove god completely. Throughout history, religion has been the guiding force for society. Whether the god behind a particular religion was real or not (yes, I know, your god is the only real one), the teachings were meant to create a more civilized society. For example, take the ten commandments, remove the top four and the rest are just decent rules to life.

The danger and hatred that stem from religion is when another does not believe in your god. They may be the best people ever, but according to any specific belief set, they are condemned because they do not believe in the god that particular religion dictates. So if you can remove the oh so many jealous gods and just take the common sense teachings from each belief set, then you would have a good set of rules by which society can improve.
edit on 9-2-2015 by ObservingTheWorld because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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I can accept God and his word, just not the people who think they can speak for God and...how should I say....Fly with Gods words to heaven.

God has funny ways of speaking for itself.
edit on 9-2-2015 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

Hm. That kid didn't really try very hard to see his Dad again. I think I would have persisted and continued to knock on the door. But, that's just me.



posted on Feb, 9 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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As humans continue to expand our awareness of the world around us, we begin to accept new belief systems that are more compatible with what we experience.

To me, religion began as a way to explain the mysterious and control early nomadic groups of people. Many of the mysteries that religion explained can now be replaced by scientific understanding.

Just because we don't know something doesn't mean that it's "God" or "magical". Someone in Jesus's time would think you were magic if you had Purel hand sanitizer. They'd probably call it "holy water" that kept people from getting sick.

When you combine the power of placebo with people placing their faith and understanding in a myth like religion, it's quite powerful indeed. It's also very comforting because it takes away any responsibility of the believer. They don't have to make sense of the world on their own, their pastor, priest or religious leader does that for them.

It diminishes one's own personal power and potential to place themselves below a messiah or religious leader. It assumes that one is not as holy or worthy of the ultimate life experience. It says, "I can only hope to be..."

Perhaps if our species survives long enough, we'll look back on our archaic religions and shake our heads and wonder why we clung to such silly ideas for so long, when instead we could have been embracing progress self-discovery.
edit on 9-2-2015 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



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