Russia vs USA: World War 3

a reply to: midicon

There is no comparison between Putin and Hitler other than the drivel coming from the MSM and USA mouthpieces.

And yet these people say different...

• German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble: "We know all about that from history. Those are the methods that Hitler used to take over the Sudetenland."

• Former Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili: "In the 1930s, Nazi Germany occupied part of neighboring Czechoslovakia under the pretext of protecting ethnic Germans. Today, Russia is claiming to protect ethnic Russians… in Crimea or Georgian territories… Many in the West are talking about the need to reach some kind of compromise with Russia, an option that smacks of Munich 80 years ago."

• Vladislav Inozemtsev of The Moscow Times: "Like Hitler before him, Putin has no new ideas on how to create a stable global system in place of the current one. He only wants to secure new territory as Hitler tried to guarantee a vast Lebensraum for the German people."

• Former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezisnki called Putin "a partially comical imitation of (former Italian Prime Minister Benito) Mussolini and a more menacing reminder of Hitler."

www.businessinsider.com...

So it seems more than just MSM and US mouthpieces feel that he is comparable to Hitler...Imagine that.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I don't doubt the USA's military prowess but in a nuclear confrontation there are no winners. I would be surprised if Russia didn't have enough warheads to take out the USA. I said 'capable' .

My money would be on the US but I don't think there would be much left to celebrate.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: midicon

Russia is quite capable of destroying the USA, something you may have overlooked in your quest for world domination.

You may want to look at this...

www.globalfirepower.com... es

So I seriously doubt that they could.

As stated by Putin himself, Russia has no interest in conventional military confrontation against the US, and of ourse they won't. But on the other hand NATO would most probably fail, big time, in attacking Russia upfront, from any side, especially today. Especially now that carrying guns is now more legal in Russia than in the US. Especially that Russian now has more nukes than the US.

NATO's move to the East stops in Ukraine, and there's now reason to believe that important EU countries may stop taking the side of the US against Russia... as reflected through the recent positions expressed by Hollande, Merkel, and the Syriza party of Greece. If the US loses only these three countries as allies in this geopolitical game, they have no hope in gaining any more ground in the East. It's game over for the US, at least on that front. In addition to the new Russian Naval base in Cyprus, having Greece becoming a Russian partner will mean a HUGE geostrategic loss for NATO in the Mediterranean, due to its important islands, and neighboring with both Turkey, Bulgaria and ex-Yugoslavia. Such a new union between Greece, Cyprus and Russia would be literally imposing a belt on the eastern Mediterranean. It would on the long run have the power to starve Erdogan...

Considering widespread defections,as casualties mount, i believe it is just a matter of time until Ukr. military rise up against their executioners, Kiev govt.
Of coarse the Ukr govt/western media will brand them Separatists or Russian regulars.
www.liveleak.com...
russia-insider.com...
www.liveleak.com...

originally posted by: all2human
Considering widespread defections,as casualties mount, i believe it is just a matter of time until Ukr. military rise up against their executioners, Kiev govt.
www.liveleak.com...
russia-insider.com...
www.liveleak.com...

Likely outcome, yes, even though it's hard to confirm to extend of which Ukrainian troops have turned their backs on Kiev. All those deaths will have been for nothing, or just the greed and ego of a handful of Western profiteers, which may also suffer a severe collapse afterwards...

NATO leaders may have to get ready to lose their faces, though I'm sure they have a damage control solution to "edit" this part of History through their media.

There will be no nuclear war but they will be probably a conventional war - first by proxy - which I believe that we are already in it and then later direct confrontation, especially when Russia is starting to seize territories like Estonia.

These are scary times .. and not a lot of people realize it yet!

The russian have mor e warheads but a higher percentage are not usable.

a reply to: flyandi
If USA gets involved
I expect the conflict will not be limited to the Ukraine.
We could see a range of engagements or sabotage From the Persian gulf, Korea, South America, the arctic, Georgia , South China sea,
Syria, to Isreal , even Europe it's self.

a reply to: all2human

If US get involved, it will be WW3.

If US sends its weapons to Ukes, then Russia will conduct a full blown invasion, including intercepting the weapons shipments and destroying them.

It will be a mess for common people.

Why should US get involved in Ukraine and that too against Russia? Is Obama too bored that he just wants to go totally berserk?

Why should I or some other common person become a part of some mad Oligarch's dark decisions? Why????????????

Porky's 5000+ boys are encircled in Debaltsevo.........WHY DOES NOT HE ASK THEM TO SURRENDER AND SAVE THEIR LIVES?

a reply to: boymonkey74

The Cuban Missile Crisis led to a standard accepted by all Nuclear Powers. Russia is included and indeed upheld for acceptable uses of Nuclear Weapons defined by that experience. That bar has been lowered for some time now though. The US first lowered it with regard to the Middle East Strategy and it was expanded to other areas of Military Usage Options. Russia has recently followed on this same path. Don't think for one second that Russia or the US do not possess people of great influence, power and access to push for the use of Nuclear weapons in regard to redefined options. It's a fact in the 21st century. These lunatics exist and will do it first chance they get and those war hawks outnumber the moderates ten to one.

Didnt th e leader in donestk say he was not going to take prisoners anymore? SO unfortunatly they are better off where they are.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: TechUnique

While bad no one is stupid enough to push the button.
Didn't happen in the cuban missile crisis won't happen now.
But I think it will be a different country backing down this time.

Really?
They keep provoking Russia. There is only one way that will end. Yet they keep doing it. They keep pushing.
They are waging economic war on Russia. That's no different then waging a war with bullets. It's war.
The Russian's will respond. Then what?

The US is involved in conflicts and what not all over the world. On every continent. There are very few countries, if any at all, that haven't been touched by American foreign policy and it's aggression.

As a result we now have super powers like China and Russia building up their armed forces with offensive weapons.
The Chinese are growing bolder in the South China Sea and beyond.
The Russian's will become more and more aggressive as the West keeps pushing them.
Not only will we see more Russian troops and tanks invading countries like Georgia when the Americans interfere and cause a clash, but we will see more and more Russian ships and aircraft patrolling the worlds skies and oceans. Of course that will be reported as Russian aggression as if it's something unexpected and unprovoked..never mind the fact America has been doing the same for years. Remember that American spy plane that the Chinese forced to land during the Clinton years? Such a peace loving country America. It would never provoke anyone.

All the tension in the world today is a result of all these crazy people in other countries yeh.
Russia which at the fall of the USSR basically retreated into it self and left the outside world alone.
Only for the West to see that as a sign of weakness and exploit Russia economically, and militarily by expanding NATO where it wasn't supposed to expand NATO to(funny how the pro American clowns on ATS forget that little fact)...and surprise surprise...the Russian's no longer want to sit idle while the West expands and expands it's alliance all the way to the Russian' border.

Hmm..anyone remember the Chechens in the 90's and early 2000's? Hmm..who was backing them? The West. Specifically American and the UK. Who was offering Chechen terrorist leaders asylum? The UK.
Specifically the Chechen terror leader responsible for the Beslan school siege where innocent children were gunned down in cold blood as they tried to escape.

Do you wonder why the Russians are more aggressive? Because OUR governments FORCED Moscows hand.
They backed Russia into a corner.
Russia can either fight back, or sit there and be torn apart by the zionist neocon globalists.
And it's choosing to fight back. And that's a good thing.

On the one hand you have the Russian's fighting back.
On the other hand, WITHIN the Western system, you have Greece which just elected a left wing party, that has brought the zionist neocon globalist agenda for the EU periphery to a screaching halt that they are still suffering shock from.
Varoufakis killed the troika.
Whose aware that some of the measures that were imposed on Greece were done so without regard for the humanitarian cost, because the EU/Troika wanted to send a stern warning to Italy that they better comply or they'll get the same treatement? That's right...think about the implications. Think what that means.


Now hopefully the revolt will spread through Spain, Portgual, Ireland and Italy, and we can all tell the EU globalist empire to go get f****d and stick their monopoly money where the sun doesn't shine.

Then, a little further east from Greece you have tiny Cyprus. Who just did a deal with the Russian's for establishing a Russian base on the island. Quite possibly right next to one of the British sovereign bases that's also a hub for sophisticated electronic intelligence gathering equipment..ie a base used to spy on the Middle East and into the Caucasus regions of Russia.

Guess what will happen if Greece is forced out of the EU? There'll be another Russian base popping up in the Eastern Mediterranean soon after.

The Russians sense this opportunity, that's why within hours of Syriza winning the election the new Prime Minister was in a meeting with the Russian ambassador. That's right, the Russian amabassador, not the German or French or American or whatever from the EU. The Russian ambassador. That's why Putin has been on the phone to Tsipras recently and invited him to Moscow, partly for celebrations of the defeat of the Nazis. That's why the new Greek defence minister, a right wing nationalist, has been invited to Moscow by the Russian defence minister.

Where are Greece's western allies?
Too busy doing the work of their globalist bankster puppet masters to worry about courting the new government.

Syriza said NO to extended bailouts(read debt expansion). They are trying to negotiate a new deal which allows Greece to actually recover from the economic depression it's in. Not just simply siphon off money to the banksters. But actually start fixing the economy and the country. That cant be done under the austerity imposed because it's not designed for that. That should tell you all you need to know about how evil these people are, these banksters and their puppets in governments across Europe.

You know who else realizes what's at stake? The Americans. That's why the Americans have become more vocal and involved behind the scenes. Because the Europeans are on the verge of wrecking the Euro Atlantic alliance and creating a Russian outpost in the strategically important Eastern Mediterranean. And that's not in the interests of America. The Americans will try and stop it and keep Greece in the EU and NATO.

So we are in for some very, very interesting times ahead.
We are in for some more proxy wars, and if Greece falls to Russia, don't be surprised when Turkey is used by the West to start a proxy war against Greece to get Russia out.
That's how crazy and dangerous these people are. Human lives, human suffering and misery mean absolutely nothing to these psychotic nutjobs.

How many tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people have died from North Africa to the Middle East to the Ukraine in these proxy wars started by America and her allies?

And for what? So they can gain even more control over the world?

Don't be surprise if Iran is again thrust into the spotlight and the war drums start beating louder there, now that it's been reported that Iran has stopped using the petrodollar for it's foreign trade. You all should know what it means when a country stops using the petrodollar for foreign trade...war, either directly, by proxy, or via economic means.
Either way things are going to get far far more unstable and crazy in the near future.

There are several global conditions that should be considered to determine whether WW3 will happen and at what scale - totally devastating or somehow regional. I believe most of you know them, and I may not list all of them.

1. The old theory of the heartland or the world's island, developed by Germans and later quoted by Brzezinski, envisions whoever controls that territory (Russia +China) controls the world. However true it is, it is a reason for WW1 and WW2. Siberia is proven to be the richest place on earth due to geological facts.

2. The earth's population grew exponentially since the last world war. New nuclear countries rose, already having the minimum fire power to destroy all life on Earth (believed to be equal to the UK arsenal alone).

3. A mega war will cause nuclear winter, or worse - nuclear ignition of atmospheric N2. If such is achieved, no people on the surface will survive even if they don't die immediately.

4. The fact of vast underground facilities in both USA and USSR. Although it falls in conspiracy zone, this is may be the most sure leaked fact of all conspiracy online. We know the names of two Russian facilities: Yamantau Mts and Norilsk. One may add Moscow itself having countless new and old tunnels. Some speak of more than 200 such facilities spread on a territory that is 3 THREE times the territory of USA.

5. The preparation of a nuclear war cannot happen for one month or one year. It cannot go unnoticed. It is a decision for generations ahead. Both/all sides should ready the survival of their populations and put their economies on war gears.

6. The surprise attack option with the modern weapons could leave one of the sides with destroyed deterrent and thus to require the choice between its unconditional surrender or annihilation. To assure that won't happen, USSR develped the automated system of last responce of all surviving nukes, called Perimeter. (see wikipedia and other sources).

7. That all is the game of 30 years ago. Today's hi-precision EM and laser weapons, surely installed in space, may render the big nukes obsolete (but still deadly!). The attacking country may knock down the adversary not in the 20-30 minutes of the cold war but in less than 2 minutes (Russian missile forces general said of readiness to respond in less than 120 seconds, compared to the 15 minutes hair-triggered attack of the cold war).

8. WHo would like to do it therefore, in the sight of history judging it? I don't know the answer. Perhaps no big war will happen but only EM/laser precise strikes followed by surrender. It is also not a secret the world powers appear to be proxies of someone bigger than them who also gives technology unimaginable for the logical development of society. You can't have stealth and laser in so short terms, even if half of the nation works on that.

9. USA may still dominate ina world hungry for resources, if it is willing to share some of the hi-tech gotten in secret way by someone. Because there are still people who die of hunger and starvation, of lack of fresh water, of curable diseases, not of hypothetical nukes. Whoever do that, may be not US, will become automatically the next undisputed leader of the planet.

A ruined planet with life underground, or alive one? I don't know the answer.

The Armageddon fable is put on all that. Don't believe it is now, it wasn't the case for millenia. It could go on for another thousands of years and will be equally provable by prophetic religious standards. Religion can always explain past events by Scripture and project desirable future events by prophecy. I don't mind religion, just let not mess Ezekiel war with Russia, if no one knows the hour or the year, or the century. Those politicians who do that will grossly err.

May be a stressing big event will put the things in entirely new perspective. It is not necessarily that event to be of military character or new WMD terrorist attack. It may be of entirely different nature. It may be so shocking that to postpone the above conditions for WW3 for months or even years.

If we look at the calendar what would be the best timing for Russia, there are two dates emerging. One needs to know the symbolism put in historic events in the Russian culture. Nothing like the next olympic games.

One such event is the 100th anniversary of the October revolution in 2017. For good or for bad, that is no more celebrated and recalls controversial feelings in the Russian society. And it is more than 2 years from now, therefore cannot be expected as imminent trigger of anything, on already set scene for something big.

The other possible date is the 70th anniversary of the victory in WW2 over Nazi Germany. Known as the Great Patriotic War in Russia and USSR, it is event unequivocally accepted as national unparalleled victory and pride, by both society and Orthodox Church. In the years of post-USSR when the October revolution wasn't celebrated anymore, the May 9th V Day became the sole biggest national event of such magnitude.

Therefore, if we are to think for what will be the best timing from Russian side, it is definitely that time period, before or around May 9th.

USA had many chances and still have them to turn the wheel of history once more. I don't understand why different administrations and apparently smart people among the US leaders and science do not do that event that will cross civilization, culture and history. Perhaps they have their reasons for that, that only the history will be the impartial judge.

What if nothing happens around May 9th? I guess you look for the nearest entrance of underground city, or buy a booklet of prayers to save your soul. The war will start and end in less than 3 days, and will be coupled with complete blackout of all electronics, therefore you won't even know what is going on.

In WW3 new weapons will be used, not only stealth but also Aurora triangles that CIA admitted half of the UFOs are theirs. On the Russian side there are the pyramids demonstrated above Kremlin in old video (before 2006) released the night after Obama's Nobel peace prize and Norway spiral.

I wonder, if we are already at that crossing point of breakthrough new technology, if we print human organs with 3D nano printer, then why the need of WW3 at all? Why not to allow humanity to cross thru that line and live more happily the next 50 years or more? I don't have the answer of that question. I don't want to see half of the planet in ashes, or all of it. But if I have to, I will choose the way of underground or other rescue because it will be the only way to save humanity if a full scale war starts. And because the war will be rather short, such rescue must precede it even by 1 h only. Don't you notice it doesn't matter for the purpose of the common citizen who starts the war first or even who wins, if it will be a total war with nuclear winter and N2 ignition? It matters only if it is a limited war with precision weapons, without much destruction, and with morale to precede the hostilities. But I doubt it will be contained once starting. Unless a miracle happens.

Frankly, I expected that person to be Obama, around/on the funeral ceremonies of Nelson Mandela. It didn't happen despite the highly emotional charge rare seen on the planet. (Not even seen on papal masses.)

Will it be Putin the person to give food to the hungry via secret tech, and to be crowned as a virtual king of the planet, without WW3?

BTW Lenin's body is taken out of the Mausoleum for regular maintenance. I guess the new bio-tech could do more about that too.

We will see miracles. Or those who survive to see it.

Armageddon may be postponed for thousands years, exactly by the events the Armageddon-expecting people quote. You can't have Armageddon underground or elsewhere except on the surface of planet Earth in Israel. Otherwise, it doesn't fit the very prophecy the fanatics quote all the time. It may look like it, but it is something else different from the prophecy. WW3 may do one good thing and that is to push the prophecy several thousand years in the future (or more) when the earth will be restored to normal life again. As it was restored after the dinosaurs' extinction event.

Well, I don't want to be in the place of the late dinosaurs, that's one thing for sure, regardless of the side who will assure that safe haven!

================================================

So you may say, I have chosen to side with the antichrist. No, I side with the one who provides rescue and continuation of the human race. It may not be one single person or side. The antichrist is artificially introduced image by Rome in early christianity. Jesus does not speak of one final antichrist. Why??? Even if 100% true, the antichrist is not the one who destroys the planet but the one who deceives the people in religious matter. What we will have soon in WW3 is physical destruction of all living on t he planet. And thus rendering the planet uninhabitable on the surface and unfittable for any prophecy to fulfill, no matter how true it is. One may say, satan wants to prevent God's prophecy. It might be that way, I don't know.

What I know is there is a way to save part of world's population and it will be done one way or another. I may not survive to see it. But that is the way out. There could be every big power provides such way for its citizens to different destinations. Seems to me the experiment "Earth" is about to be closed. At least for some time, measurable in thousands if not millions of years. Let remember again the dinosaurs and what would happen if Yellowstone erupts unexpectedly (actually very expected one may say). It is absurd to talk big things and agendas, when the salvation of the people who do that is put at risk - mine and yours alike. I hate to say it but no one paid me a cent for what I wrote. Neither promised a shelter. So I will be more than glad to work for the one who will do so! Call it whatever you'd like to. Jesus didn't come to kill us all physically, he came to save us. But I am sure the religious will find explanation of every event that happens, post factum, with their big books. This is not my problem.

originally posted by: mortex
They keep provoking Russia.

Provoking... like Russia invading another country and stealing a chunk of its territory was all caused by the "west provoking"?

I love how the pro-Russian's here seem to willfully ignore the inconvenient reality that none of this would be happening if Putin had not invaded Ukraine.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: all2human

If US get involved, it will be WW3.

If US sends its weapons to Ukes, then Russia will conduct a full blown invasion, including intercepting the weapons shipments and destroying them.

It will be a mess for common people.

Why should US get involved in Ukraine and that too against Russia? Is Obama too bored that he just wants to go totally berserk?

Why should I or some other common person become a part of some mad Oligarch's dark decisions? Why????????????

Porky's 5000+ boys are encircled in Debaltsevo.........WHY DOES NOT HE ASK THEM TO SURRENDER AND SAVE THEIR LIVES?

I'm going to answer the whu for you. The Reason the west is involved is in the 21st century we can't have countries bully others and take there territory. The days of taking countries by force ended in world War 2. However Putin is really working hard to resurrect that. Who would have thought another dictator would try to take over there neighbors.

The difference this time is simple Germans were a head of other countries in military tech and there really wasn't a way to stop Hitler. However this time Putin miscalculated the west can easily tip the balance in a conflict. Ironic that the one who's going after Putin the most is german how times change.

But here's to hoping Putin stays focused on the US and continues to ignore Germany trust me she's going to hurt Putin. And he better take her threat seriously.

originally posted by: victor7
If US get involved, it will be WW3.

Hang on, I thought you pro-Russians have been claiming that this was all started by America? But now you're saying "if" the US gets involved?

Which is it?

And WW3 will only happen if Putin is crazy enough to act irrationally.
Unfortunately, I think all that Botox has seeped into his brain and he's probably more mentally unstable than he looks.

originally posted by: victor7
If US sends its weapons to Ukes, then Russia will conduct a full blown invasion, including intercepting the weapons shipments and destroying them.

And if Russia does that it will have no credibility left in any way.
Lets not forget that in order to avoid being called an outright criminal, Putin has been "claiming" that no serving Russian regular troops are in Ukraine, despite all the evidence to prove otherwise. If he invades or attacks weapons shipments he is basically admitting that he's invaded Ukraine, it will all be out there for the world to see and any pretense is shattered.

The US can send arms to Ukraine, because it is an ally. Only an interested party would have a problem with that.

Having said that, we know Putin is behind the Rebels, and we know that Russian regular troops and military equipment has flooded into Ukraine. I believe Putin will probably invade Ukraine proper whether the US assists Ukraine or not.

originally posted by: victor7
It will be a mess for common people.

War always is.

originally posted by: victor7
Why should US get involved in Ukraine and that too against Russia? Is Obama too bored that he just wants to go totally berserk?

Berserk?
You should ask that warmonger Putin about that, seeing as he's the one who invaded Ukraine and stole Crimea, and been sending regular troops and heavy weapons into Ukraine in what is an invasion in all but Putin's denials.

The US should get involved in Ukraine because it is a friend of Ukraine and Europe. Obviously, the US has strategic interest in not seeing nutty Putin claiming more territory, and it would set a very bad example to just sit back and do absolutely nothing while Russia invades a neighbour.

Like it or not, Putin has left the world with little choice in this. He chose to invade a country, and now Europe is threatened. Of course the world will pay attention and be forced to act, because we all remember what happened when we refused to act the last time a dictator invaded a nation under the pretext of "protecting German speakers".

originally posted by: victor7
Why should I or some other common person become a part of some mad Oligarch's dark decisions? Why????????????

Funny that you use the word Oligarch, when that is basically what Putin and much of the Russian government is.
If you want to blame anyone here, you can point that accusatory finger right at the Kremlin.

Remember, if Putin had not invaded Ukraine, none of this would be happening.

originally posted by: victor7
Porky's 5000+ boys are encircled in Debaltsevo.........WHY DOES NOT HE ASK THEM TO SURRENDER AND SAVE THEIR LIVES?

Why should the people of a land give up their land to a foreign dictator like Putin?

Why doesn't Putin pull his troops out of Ukraine and hand the country back to the people who ACTUALLY LIVE THERE?

Your attitude is one that's quite shocking to most of the world, you TRULY have the arrogance to believe that Russia has the right to just steal countries, invade and plunder, take whatever they like as if they're common thieves. You TRULY have the arrogance to believe that this is not an invasion, because Ukraine is already "Russian property".

This is the kind of warped mentality the world has not yet got to grips with, and until we do we can't pretend to know exactly how crazy Putin actually is. Former friends and associates of Putin have repeated the same things - the man is an egomaniac with delusional romantic fantasies of a new Soviet Empire, and he's crazy enough to risk his entire nation and people to achieve his egotistical ambitions.