Originally posted by Simulacra
If we are all connected then are we responsible for our own actions?

IMHO, we're not connected (except to the extent that we choose to be connected), therefore we are responsible for our own actions.

The Noosphere concept, however appealing it may seem, is a recipe for chaos. I suppose if everyone on the planet was sane & ehical & all that jazz, then it might be a utopian dream...but that's clearly not the case.

Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
IMHO, we're not connected (except to the extent that we choose to be connected), therefore we are responsible for our own actions.

Then maybe you can explain why you believe we are all not connected?

Even if we are all connected, I believe the cosmic consciousness is constantly changing. By adding to it and whatnot, as time passes.

Every possible response may be out there, but we must choose the one which most seems to fit for us, the individual. The choice is still ours to make, right? Otherwise we would all respond the same.

Further, after wide public discussion of an idea, a consensus of some sort is usually reached so that generations after us will 'be given' a prevailing attitude on past events/topics/whatever.

Like the whole switch from earthcentric to copernican thought.

How one thing which is held as true can later seem silly, and vice versa.

And I'm rambling.. My answer to your question, which I have hidden amongst the words above, is yes - We are still responsible for our actions.
Because the cosmic consciousness/knowledge pool can be poisoned by those who seek to.



edit for spelling

[edit on 16-12-2004 by quango]

Originally posted by Simulacra

With that being said, how can anyone on this planet be responsible for their own actions? Actions revolve around an idea whether it’s widely apparent or buried within the depths of your sub-conscious. We have been taught that these actions share a direct relation with self when in actuality, it is connected with all. Each person on this planet is the living embodiment of all perceived good and evil within the universe.

And with this being the case, this idea was not my idea. It was not your idea. It was our idea and it has existed ever since the dawn of the universe. And with that being said, every response to this thread is not your specific belief but is obtained from the cosmic conscious in which we are all connected to.

Discuss LadyV, jazzgul, Mynaeris, Elaine, Majic…cant forget AngelaLadyS. I know you will!

YOU put the needle in my head Simulacra
Yes, I believe we are connected - unfortunately we are like children in the mist hearing signal horn...
Our actions are "designed" to find that horn, therefore we have an illusion of free will.
Have to think more about that one - I will try to stay tuned and search for proper words.

Originally posted by quango
Every possible response may be out there, but we must choose the one which most seems to fit for us, the individual. The choice is still ours to make, right?

If we are part of this pool of consciousness, then how can we call ourselves individuals? My father is a Trekkie Fanatic, so I’m going to steal some Borg terminology. Imagine the Borg. They are a collective, there is no individuality within this collective. That is essentially what we are (minus the zombie-like actions and the mechanical eye patches). 'Self' and 'Personal decisions' exist to confuse us from the truth that we are indeed all connected.

Originally posted by quango
Otherwise we would all respond the same.

Not necessarily. Like I mentioned before, we are the embodiment of all perceived good and evil in the world. We 'dip' from this consciousness so therefore while all of our responses COULD be the same it is typically not. Why? Because physical limitations have tricked us into believing that we are different from each other. Therefore we respond different solely based on these physical and environmental limitations.

Originally posted by quango
Like the whole switch from earthcentric to copernican thought...How one thing which is held as true can later seem silly, and vice versa.

This is the Archaic Revival. Terrence McKenna talked about this heavily in his books. In essence, human kind reverts to history in order to find a time in which life was last 'sane'.

Originally posted by quango
And I'm rambling..

No way! Keep going.

Originally posted by quango
Because the cosmic consciousness/knowledge pool can be poisoned by those who seek to.

Poisoned? As in the introduction of perceived evil ideas? Let me remind you that polarize Good/Evil because we are physically hardwired to do this. Our brain loves to polarize two opposites (Republican/Democrat. Blue/Red. Good/Evil, Right/Wrong, Black/White). We can't escape this polarization due to our physical limitations (that squishy thing inside your head). The general belief is that our brain allows us to perceive our world (5 senses). However, in actuality, it limits our perception of the world.

Originally posted by jazzgul
YOU put the needle in my head Simulacra

Always! That's what I'm here for.

Originally posted by jazzgul
Have to think more about that one - I will try to stay tuned and search for proper words.

Proper words? Who needs them? Draw pictures of what you're trying to convey and I'll understand them...maybe.

Do you know deoxy.org? You mention McKenna....

Instead of words - yeah - I give you some visualisation:

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by quango
Every possible response may be out there, but we must choose the one which most seems to fit for us, the individual. The choice is still ours to make, right?

If we are part of this pool of consciousness, then how can we call ourselves individuals? My father is a Trekkie Fanatic, so I’m going to steal some Borg terminology. Imagine the Borg. They are a collective, there is no individuality within this collective. That is essentially what we are (minus the zombie-like actions and the mechanical eye patches). 'Self' and 'Personal decisions' exist to confuse us from the truth that we are indeed all connected.

Wow - that sounds scary. Maybe somewhere much further up the consciousness ladder we're all connected, but we're definitely individual from where I'm sitting.

Originally posted by quango
Otherwise we would all respond the same.

Not necessarily. Like I mentioned before, we are the embodiment of all perceived good and evil in the world. We 'dip' from this consciousness so therefore while all of our responses COULD be the same it is typically not. Why? Because physical limitations have tricked us into believing that we are different from each other. Therefore we respond different solely based on these physical and environmental limitations.

If life is a journey from X to Y and Y is returning to the comfort of the Godhead, or oneness, or whatever - then everyone's path is different during the journey - it's not an illusion, it's the way it has to be until we all reach our Final Destination.

And if life isn't a journey, then where the hell am I going?

Originally posted by quango
Like the whole switch from earthcentric to copernican thought...How one thing which is held as true can later seem silly, and vice versa.

This is the Archaic Revival. Terrence McKenna talked about this heavily in his books. In essence, human kind reverts to history in order to find a time in which life was last 'sane'.

That's not what I meant exactly - I just mean the meaning of things changes over time. There is an evolution of the cosmic consciousness; it expands as more information becomes available. (from our point of view)

Originally posted by quango
Because the cosmic consciousness/knowledge pool can be poisoned by those who seek to.

Poisoned? As in the introduction of perceived evil ideas?

I equate cosmic consciousness with infinite knowledge and total awareness.
I believe it is possible to hide pieces of the puzzle, as it were, and therefore deny knowledge, and as a result, block others from completing the journey.

Why? I don't know. Power and Control are anti to Oneness. But the journey leads one way or the other, I suppose.

Originally posted by Simulacra

Then maybe you can explain why you believe we are all not connected?

Some things are impossible to explain...I just know that I'm a separate, distinct being.

Fascinating discussion, though...

Originally posted by quango

If life is a journey from X to Y and Y is returning to the comfort of the Godhead, or oneness, or whatever - then everyone's path is different during the journey - it's not an illusion, it's the way it has to be until we all reach our Final Destination.

Well, life is a journey, but not from X to Y. We are determined to think lineal, but line is just an illusion projected by our mind to understand at least piece of whole cake. I would compare it more to fractal and yes things are changing (I'm not sure If this is clear - language)

Originally posted by quango
but we're definitely individual from where I'm sitting.

Like I mentioned earlier. It would seem that we are individuals. We would like to think that we have our own ideas, our own lives, our own journey. But that is just the 'Ego'. Terrence McKenna mentioned something along the lines of 'Ego prevents us from being what we truly are'

Originally posted by quango
then everyone's path is different during the journey - it's not an illusion, it's the way it has to be until we all reach our Final Destination.

Different as in...variations of the same then yes. I totally agree with you. No matter what journey we are on, we all ultimately arrive at the same place. Death and the return with this cosmic consciousness

Originally posted by quango
And if life isn't a journey, then where the hell am I going?

To a bar to grab a drink? I'm buying

Originally posted by quango
I equate cosmic consciousness with infinite knowledge and total awareness.
I believe it is possible to hide pieces of the puzzle, as it were, and therefore deny knowledge, and as a result, block others from completing the journey.

If cosmic consciousness equates infinite knowledge and total awareness. And if we are all part of this infinite knowledge, then how can we block our own knowledge? We are the knowledge.

Originally posted by Azeari of the Radiant Eye
Some things are impossible to explain...I just know that I'm a separate, distinct being.

Sounds good enough.

Originally posted by jazzgul
Well, life is a journey, but not from X to Y. We are determined to think lineal, but line is just an illusion projected by our mind to understand at least piece of whole cake.

I agree. Linear thinking is just another form of polarization. 'Beginning/End'. 'Start/Stop'. Reminds me of the scene in Donnie Darko in which he had a fit because he was forced to categorize all actions into either 'Love' or 'Fear'(or was it hate?).

Why we humans are so fascinated by rainbow? I guess It shows as lack of borders

(just a thought)

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by quango
but we're definitely individual from where I'm sitting.

Like I mentioned earlier. It would seem that we are individuals. We would like to think that we have our own ideas, our own lives, our own journey. But that is just the 'Ego'. Terrence McKenna mentioned something along the lines of 'Ego prevents us from being what we truly are'

And what are we truly? (I know, I know... connected.. )

Originally posted by quango
then everyone's path is different during the journey - it's not an illusion, it's the way it has to be until we all reach our Final Destination.

Different as in...variations of the same then yes. I totally agree with you. No matter what journey we are on, we all ultimately arrive at the same place. Death and the return with this cosmic consciousness

So is this state of mind attainable pre-death?

If you are starving and you do not eat, you will die. It doesn't matter how much I eat in the meantime, you will still die. Then I will have to buy my own beer, and find someone else to chat with. I realize this is a physical example, but I am alive and I am concerned with physcial things.

Originally posted by quango
I equate cosmic consciousness with infinite knowledge and total awareness.
I believe it is possible to hide pieces of the puzzle, as it were, and therefore deny knowledge, and as a result, block others from completing the journey.

If cosmic consciousness equates infinite knowledge and total awareness. And if we are all part of this infinite knowledge, then how can we block our own knowledge? We are the knowledge.

Is it possible for me to reject this truth and fool myself into thinking that there is no connection and that I am an individual?

If so, then others can do it to me, or you, or themselves, as well.

Originally posted by Simulacra
If we are all connected then are we responsible for our own actions? Essentially, if we are comprised of the same ‘God head’ then is ‘self’ an illusion?

The fact that I will answer this question differently than others proves our individual abilities to employ free moral agency.

We can freely take from this ocean whatever desired knowledge is needed. There is no personal distinction.

I think you answer your own question here. The personal distinction comes in the form of what is needed. We do not all have the same needs. We do not all search for, or acquire, the same knowledge.

Each person on this planet is the living embodiment of all perceived good and evil within the universe.

Again, I believe this is pivotal to proving out our individualism. I believe us to be embodiments of all perceived good and evil that exists in the universe as well. But once we employ the "perceived" portion of that statement, we are then bound to admit that each person is a different ratio of those "perceived" goods and evils.

[edit on 12-16-2004 by Valhall]

then there would be no doubt in your mind that we are not 'connected'. It's a daily struggle to establish common ground with the majority of society. I can dress like everybody else, talk like everybody else and yet think completely opposite on how to get things done or what is normal. Thus labeled a freak by others and even an alien myself sometimes. Cosmic conciousness sounds like a weak excuse not to be responsible for what we do. Ask a chief justice what he thinks.

Being aware of the cosmic consciousness does not mean that
we are all alike. Each one of us "translates" it differently.
We each get something different from it or we don't have to
get anything at all. We don't even have to believe there is a
cosmic consciousness if we don't want to. That's our freewill
at work.

So ultimately, we are all responsible for our own actions regardless of
what we think might be influencing our decisions in life.

What really connects us is that we are all humans haveing a "human
experience" here on earth in this reality. Each "experience" is unique.

We are all learning lessons while we are here that we take with us to the next plane of existence.
What that means to me is that people should be alot kinder to each
other and try not to be so judgemental of others. One kind or careing person can start a chain reaction of positive change with each person in it as a link.

If everyone tried to be more positive, creative, spiritual,
and helpful instead of negative, destructive, materialistic and greedy,
it would benefit the whole world and maybe more people would'nt
feel so "separate" from the rest of humanity. I know it's not always
easy to be positive all the time, but we should try. Believe me, I
get depressed sometimes and I have to almost force myself to snap
out of it. But then later, I always realize that I truly did'nt like being
that way.

If the cosmic consciousness is changeing then it's probably because
evil is starting to outweigh good. We need to at least balance it or
help the postive outweigh the negative.

Hope this post does'nt sound too garbled or "hippyfied" for some.
I am not a hippy. I just play one on t.v. (LOL, just kidding).




at someone today, ask how they are, show someone you
care and help spread some "positivity" into the cosmic consciousness
for all of us.

The thoughts presented in this thread are nagging my head like an annoying splinter
Why can we be connected to the same source and yet be so different???
I've been thinking about earth as one giant organism (an idea of Gaia -the intelligent being):
If you look at our planet from that perspective, you are able to se billions of different organisms living together in harmony ( except humans -that is a different story). They all behave different, their life patterns are various, yet they share the same chemicals, they "perform" their duties given them by mother nature.
Humans suppose to share this behavior, but not - we all want to be specially different. We are so busy with being different, that we forget where are we coming from. Many of us are unable to enjoy and live together with nature. We create borders, invent things to protect ourselves from influences which are not welcomed by our standards. Even if we are connected we don’t want to be.
- Share the same conscious? It sounds insane, because our thoughts are bounded by fear of slavery - this idea imprinted deep in our minds make us do things to prove we are free - our freedom gives us possibility to do things against us -the circle is closing

I really don’t know if this has any sense -My mind is very chaotic and I'm not much of a writer, so please accept an apology if I got you confused...