Living in the USA Vs UK

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WatchRider

Do you buy into those types of conspiracy theorists...

Ok, I'll redefine my question.

What types of conspiracy theories are you asking I buy into?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: DYepes

I do not know about my fellow Britons, but I had to learn, just to get through high school, how to obliterate people with my hands, you know, like a man, rather than resorting to firearms to attain my liberty. That said, I believe it is a disgrace that I cannot go about armed in my own damned country.

I will always prefer to draw steel, than to throw lead though.

Ok my response to your words that I don't disagree with btw for the most part.

a reply to: WatchRider

Well, in response to your points:

You state that it is your belief that 90% of people would be better off if we did not pay the tax associated with the NHS. This is fine, as long as the individual person is not going to require ANY medical treatment or emergency care, in their whole life. This is NOT the case for the majority of people, who will need some sort of emergency care at some point in their life. In this country, if you are earning about 20,000 pounds a year, you pay about a grand toward the NHS during a year, out of a total of 5k in total tax. That is much cheaper than being charged tens of thousands of dollars for American hospital services, which a friend of mine had to do out there. Screw that. Really hard. Its even worse in a private medical situation, to try to deal with a chronic illness. Again, screw that.

On policing, I have never been mistreated by our police here in Britain, and I have a decent working relationship with a few of our local ones. They know I have my eye out in our locality, and that I have acted previously to protect local businesses and homes from crime, both as part of my job as a locksmith, and indeed as a member of the local community. A couple of years back, myself and a colleague chased off some crowbar toting criminals who had robbed the jewellers shop down the street. Despite the fact that I look like a rogue, our local lot know me, know my face, and know that I am for justice, freedom from criminal acts, and that I am no threat to the law that it is their duty to enforce.

On work, realistically it costs too much to move to work, unless you have a significant amount of money saved up. Property prices and rents are prohibitive to far too great an extent to make that realistic for anyone who NEEDS to work. Here, the only people who can really afford to move to find work, are those who could just live off their savings until more jobs come up anyway, so its really a moot point around here, a point which is entirely ignored or misunderstood by anyone who has not lived at the thin end of the wedge in the UK, and forgotten by those who have moved abroad.

And indeed, it is harder to get benefit help these days, there is more means testing, there are more interviews, and you have to show that you are trying to find work by various methods. It is worth noting however, that the reason for some of the contemporary BS one has to go through in order to get help from the government, is down largely to the fact that we have a conservative element in government, and conservative policy here in Britain is historically, and currently, anti-worker, anti-socialist, and utterly unfit for purpose, so they are bound to make it harder for people to get along in life. Fairly typical behaviour of that party, populated mostly by people who have never HAD a real problem in their life, and would not have a clue how to solve it if they did.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: WatchRider

And indeed, it is harder to get benefit help these days, there is more means testing, there are more interviews, and you have to show that you are trying to find work by various methods. It is worth noting however, that the reason for some of the contemporary BS one has to go through in order to get help from the government, is down largely to the fact that we have a conservative element in government, and conservative policy here in Britain is historically, and currently, anti-worker, anti-socialist, and utterly unfit for purpose, so they are bound to make it harder for people to get along in life. Fairly typical behaviour of that party, populated mostly by people who have never HAD a real problem in their life, and would not have a clue how to solve it if they did.

Interesting notings. Well I can say that under pre 1978 Labour it was friendlier to us for unemployment coin. Yet the tories countered that by saying it was too wasteful. On the closures of our heavy industry again I liked how the workers were well paid for this BUT I heard with my own ears how many liberties they were taking and wasteful ways rampant too.

The tories were again quick to pounce and destroy it alas. So it cuts kinda both ways on that mate. It would have been better for a middle-ground but they don't want that alas.

a reply to: WatchRider

How would I know...

You've only mentioned one, that our UK Government isn't what it says it is.

One thing the UK has that the US doesn't is GOOD history and heritage.

My aunt used to own a big manor house that had rooms/sections dating back to 12/1300's - That feeling of being in a part of OLD British history is amazing.

The British countryside and landscape is actually beautiful. There's so much untouched landscape that calling the country Urban is a bit misleading. We have built up areas and old villages surrounded by acres upon acres of untouched landscape. It's really about exploring the country rather than looking at just London (Like many outsiders do)

The US as we know it today is still a young country. Big... Powerful... But young. It hasn't got the deep routed history the UK does. It doesn't have the prestige Britain has developed over thousands of years. I'm extremely proud to be from a country of such historical importance.

Freedom - We have just as much as the US i'd say. And it's much easier to hop over and live in other countries in the EU! Hahaha

The bad :

We'ere a smaller country - of course. And we're horrendously expensive to live in. We are also losing our Identity slowly but surely. We've allowed too many immigrants in, allowed too many other cultures and faiths (mainly Muslims) to dictate the country's faith. Multiculturalism hasn't worked - it's that simple. (Before anyone goes up in arms - I'm far from Racist and have many friends of varying cultures) I'm just concerned about this countries roots being forgotten so not to offend "others" - Disgusting. I think we DO care too much about other people rather than caring for our own.

I hope one day Britain remembers what we once were and we go back to our roots. Stop letting other cultures replace our own. Live amongst? Sure! I'm all for it! If they want to live here they MUST respect who we are and what we (used to) stand for. It's not a matter of offending anyone - It's a matter of maintaining out country and culture.

Op ypu ever been to the uk?.
Oh and freedom!!! Watched to much braveheart have you?.
We had freedom before your country existed.
Oh net speeds,? Faster than yours...check it.
We like it here and the people here make us GREAT.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: WatchRider

You state that it is your belief that 90% of people would be better off if we did not pay the tax associated with the NHS. This is fine, as long as the individual person is not going to require ANY medical treatment or emergency care, in their whole life. This is NOT the case for the majority of people, who will need some sort of emergency care at some point in their life. In this country, if you are earning about 20,000 pounds a year, you pay about a grand toward the NHS during a year, out of a total of 5k in total tax. That is much cheaper than being charged tens of thousands of dollars for American hospital services, which a friend of mine had to do out there. Screw that. Really hard. Its even worse in a private medical situation, to try to deal with a chronic illness. Again, screw that.

More like £1,500 to £1,800 mate. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Let's crunch some numbers together.

A man lives so far for 40 years. Comes of age at 16.

16-40 = 24.

24 Years x £1,000 = £24,000

He needs a hospital visit in 1997 for an RTA. No injuries as he was wearing his seatbelt. Just some whiplash and gets a few X-Rays).

So 24 x 1,000 is £24,000 plus inflation less the pittance for the RTA in 1997. Nice chunk of change. Some clinic visits for a minor crushed fingernail (work injury) would have been covered by work.
That £24,000 could be better spent.

Now before the roar goes out for the accident prone, sick, lame and lazy they could be put on a benefit system funded by the wealthy (as in the mega-wealthy). That's how we had it before the welfare-monster was constructed. The hospitals were well funded, staffed and up-to-date via volunteer funding and charity funding. Two world wars knocked that out of synch (for many nations).

We just have to get back to that a bit.

Over to the USA which to an extent continues that tradition.

The hospital charges and the reality of how much you SHOULD be charged are two different things. I can tell you for nothing that these hospitals pad the bill heavily. If hospitals worked with an 'at cost' rate they'd be affordable, unfortunately they work towards overly profiteering while providing excellent service. Private wards etc.

When do you ever see a hospital go broke? NEVER! At least I've never heard of it, just as no casinos in Vegas go bankrupt.

The issue comes in with 'specialist' treatments and cancer research etc. This is really difficult and complicated medicine that drives up costs to no end. That requires state-support, not peoples money! So it has to go a third way, that of Mr Moneybags and Mr State working hand-in-hand.
Leaving the working class to thrive and survive while the pillars of health are supported by the big boys, not the small folk.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Op ypu ever been to the uk?.
Oh and freedom!!! Watched to much braveheart have you?.
We had freedom before your country existed.
Oh net speeds,? Faster than yours...check it.
We like it here and the people here make us GREAT.

Monkey business!

UK netspeed is slower but not dead slow.

LOL. Braveheart is cliche but the USA have it in their hearts and understand it better.

Maybe before Caesar's legions arrived the Britons had freedom mate from then on it's been back and forth. Monarchies don't tend to enduce freedom unless they are very hands-off in style.
Also the soft freedom of nowadays isn't the true freedom of our ancestors.

If any nation had true freedom prior to 1776 it would probably be Iceland where they were left alone.

OPs opinion of the UK doesn't match my opinion of living in the UK.

But I guess it entirely depends where you live. Friend of mine emigrated to America, but he lived in central Birmingham. So it was like the promised land to him. Literally anywhere would have seemed like paradise after living in central Birmingham.

For a small country, we pack in a huge amount of landscapes. And a vast variety too. Thing about a lot of the American wilderness is that it's just that, wildnerness, endless mile upon mile of... nothing much.

In the UK, you get wilderness, but it's packed with castles and standing stones and thousands of years of human history.

We have a much more healthy political picture.

And Freedom? In America? Really? The freedom of America is an illusion, if anything I'd say Americans live in the most oppressive state in the West.


I mean, at heart both countries are pretty similiar. The people both here and the States are largely friendly and helpful. People are just people, you know.

The thing I like best about the UK though is that we're not infected by this American Dream illusion of 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.'

It is much better, I think, to live in a compassionate society. Rather than a dog-eat-dog society.

And that to me is the key US/UK difference.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WatchRider

How would I know...

You've only mentioned one, that our UK Government isn't what it says it is.

What does the government say it is?

a reply to: WatchRider

The Government doesn't say what it is... The people do.

It was a figure of speech in reference to you asking if I "believe the Government line".

a reply to: WatchRider

So never been here and you think you know about living here.
Sorry we had freedom for centurys.
All your freedoms are based on ours.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Doesn't really matter if they have been here monkey, they said "if the Monarchy was hands off" which any true UK resident knows is what does happen...


They could have lived here all their life, but if they don't understand a Constitutional Monarch there is no point discussing how the country is truly run.



As for Freedom, I can't think of a single freedom we don't have that American does besides the Gun situation.


I'm not too sure how getting a permit for areas that it's necassary to do so is a restriction of freedom either...

Sounds like common sense imo.

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
One thing the UK has that the US doesn't is GOOD history and heritage.

My aunt used to own a big manor house that had rooms/sections dating back to 12/1300's - That feeling of being in a part of OLD British history is amazing.

The British countryside and landscape is actually beautiful. There's so much untouched landscape that calling the country Urban is a bit misleading. We have built up areas and old villages surrounded by acres upon acres of untouched landscape. It's really about exploring the country rather than looking at just London (Like many outsiders do)

The US as we know it today is still a young country. Big... Powerful... But young. It hasn't got the deep routed history the UK does. It doesn't have the prestige Britain has developed over thousands of years. I'm extremely proud to be from a country of such historical importance.

Freedom - We have just as much as the US i'd say. And it's much easier to hop over and live in other countries in the EU! Hahaha

The bad :

We'ere a smaller country - of course. And we're horrendously expensive to live in. We are also losing our Identity slowly but surely. We've allowed too many immigrants in, allowed too many other cultures and faiths (mainly Muslims) to dictate the country's faith. Multiculturalism hasn't worked - it's that simple. (Before anyone goes up in arms - I'm far from Racist and have many friends of varying cultures) I'm just concerned about this countries roots being forgotten so not to offend "others" - Disgusting. I think we DO care too much about other people rather than caring for our own.

I hope one day Britain remembers what we once were and we go back to our roots. Stop letting other cultures replace our own. Live amongst? Sure! I'm all for it! If they want to live here they MUST respect who we are and what we (used to) stand for. It's not a matter of offending anyone - It's a matter of maintaining out country and culture.

Worthy words, worthy of a wordy response...

The UK has a rigid class-system, the USA does not. In fact in the USA the middle-class paradigm was, until recently, the rule rather than the exception. You have low-middle and upper-middle-class. People tend to own their own land (reinforces a status of being a land-owner not a tenant).

In the UK most are lucky if they own their own house and an allotment to grow some veg. The rest tend to wealthy. The few middle-class folks are being dwarfed by the income-divide.

Unless you speak fluent German, French etc just hoping over to the EU countries is a bit like stepping sideways. The same issues that assail the UK are trending on the mainland. If anything the UK should have forged links with the USA and Scandinavia more than France and Germany etc.
Fuel in the UK is NOT subsidized nor given tax-relief (unlike the USA). It is sold on the common market (thanks for that Thatcher). Norway for example had a savings account they put a percentage of their oil revenues into.
Also, try working overseas in the EU, it's near-impossible unless you speak the local tongue. British people, like many USA folks don't learn foreign languages easily. It's not in our psyche like the French or Germans, or Scandis etc.

The UK, unless a seismic shift in politics occurs will keep on trending towards mediocrity and non-European culturement. That's a fact now. There is no such thing as integration, it doesn't work. The USA have realized that now since the symbolic moves of 1965.

The USA is not much better on culturement BUT will Balkanize instead and harden depending on your location there.
Also, a foreigner enjoys more tolerance in the UK than an ancestral native. In fact they are actually a protected minority compared to Britons.

To put it bluntly the Britons are suck in a trap. If they go quietly into the night they fade away from history. If they make a big noise via going back to their roots they get yelled at for being nationalist and heretics to the church of multiculturalism.

In the USA this doesn't fly. I've had Americans tell me point blank they left their home state because of the multicultural death cult. Brits don't have that luxury, they have nowhere to run to.

a reply to: DYepes

"I have to concede, I do envy the Uk's healthcare system. And Canada, New Zealand, and most of the rest of the developed world for that matter. The price we pay for liberty though. "

^ That's confusing. The way it's written, it sounds like you think the US has freedom, and that the places with health care , don't.
From what I see on the news, the US doesn't seem to have any noticeable additional freedoms

The O.P's vision of the U.K is different from mine.

I live in a city in the north of Scotland and most of the issues the OP had for the UK don't really exist where I am.

He mentions freedom as if we were under oppression but to be honest I've never felt oppressed at any time. I can travel without any concern of violence, the cops here aren't all on a power trip and are generally nice folk with the odd exception of course.

I can drive 20 miles into the wilderness and set up camp anywhere on public land without much issue, we have a ton of beautiful countryside to explore, the people are generally warm people and I regularly spend Saturday nights in town and all there's maybe a few fist fights i've only been involved in 1 fight in over 20 years of saturday nights in town. Never seen a gun and so never felt any danger from them.

My mother fell and broke her wrist, she got it set in plaster with regular visits to the hospital to make sure it was healing properly and now that she has the cast off, she gets a home visit by a physiotherapist to build up the muscles and to make sure she heals properly. She gets all the medication she needs for free and she is on the road to recovery now. Cost to my mum, nothing.

I recently fell on hard times during a Sciatica injury and had to move out of the flat I was in due to the landlord needing back for themselves and so I ended up sleeping at a friends house until I got back on my feet. As I was homeless I got in touch with my local council and they arranged for me to be put into temporary accommodation until I could get back on my feet and find permanent accommodation.
While I was unable to work and as a contractor with very little savings, I could get free physiotherapy and prescriptions.
I got my sciatica sorted and got moved into public housing with a rent of less than £300 a month. I am now back working and am able to start saving again. If I didn't have that social safety net, my recovery would have been a lot longer and a lot more difficult.

a reply to: mclarenmp4

Just checked a few posts from the op.
Claimed to live in the uk for decades....doesn't understand the uk at all.
Also he has had a pop at ukers for not having a gun culture.
Sorry op you think we are going to fight you over your uneducated opinions on the uk.
Not falling for it.
Nice living under a bridge is it?.

a reply to: mclarenmp4

Doesn't sound much like London either.



& I'd love to know what this "multicultural death cult" in the UK is.
Never heard of it.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I bet it is the five percent who are going instil sharia law lol.