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The Truth is Unspeakable; American Sniper unloads on 'American Sniper'

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posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: CloudsTasteMetallic
a reply to: sg1642

I couldn't care less what others think. All those poor paper targets out at my local range, may they rest in peace.

I think it was a comments section on a blog i found that link, but I know comedy gold when I see it. Went straight to bookmarks!

On topic: I do find it fishy that the OP's link claims that a 'sniper' made his first kill w/ an iron sight M4A1... Not exactly known as a high-precision platform.


It is possible. If he had started out as a rifleman and then trained as a sniper on a later tour an M4 would most likely have been his personal weapon at the time. Have a good one mate.




posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: sg1642

SAS and SBS, with a couple I have no idea about but why does that matter? - considering rape and murder are regular weapons of war it's pretty fitting. People make presumptions all the time, it's what our whole legal system is based on. Why should war be treated any different?

Indeed, one considers people as army or civilian, the other invents new terminology to remove all humanity from the after the legal justification for war has not been met - which is the whole point and purpose of propaganda.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: sg1642

SAS and SBS, with a couple I have no idea about but why does that matter? - considering rape and murder are regular weapons of war it's pretty fitting. People make presumptions all the time, it's what our whole legal system is based on. Why should war be treated any different?

Indeed, one considers people as army or civilian, the other invents new terminology to remove all humanity from the after the legal justification for war has not been met - which is the whole point and purpose of propaganda.
why? Oh I suppose it doesn't but it's the first I've ever heard of any trooper having regrets about a kill.
well like I said, there is a stark difference between a soldier legitimately killing another combatant and rape or murder. So no it's not particularly fitting really is it. Regardless of that you are right different people will have different opinions on the matter based on their experiences (or what degree of 'brainwashing' they have been subject to).



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I celebrate every day what Chris Kyle, every other Sniper, SF team member and other GIs did.

They saved the lives of their fellow brothers and sisters.

Killing sucks. It is not a glamorous thing. But, it is something that needed/needs to be done on the battlefield.

Some people are good at it.

Do I cry for the lost lives of the enemy?? Not one single tear.




he saved lives ? lol what the lives of the pawn soldiers put their by your government kings ? whom you honor , We all know why these war's went down, and it was not for "god and country " more like "money and power " there is no "Honor in an honor-less war . Who's the enemy ? the innocent people fighting to defend their country from an invading force ? . I am sure the people of Iraq & Afghanistan didn't ask to become the "enemy" ! . But America sure did turn them into one ! . You disgust me ! war war war !!!! kill kill kill ! Nationalism at it's best !

please save your self the time on a rebuttal about "oh you don't know what its like " BS i have to live it through my now suicidal brother ! who is a 3 time war vet ! 11 brovo 82 Ab ! it's a constant struggle to try and keep him alive ! at least once or twice a year i have to talk him down from wanting to take his life because he can't cope with the fact that he took so many innocent lives . your brain washed ! just like my brother was !





posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: sg1642

Ahh, may be because us Brits aren't raised on Cowboy movies and are too busy clearing up/trying to avoid US blue on blue.


In all seriousness though, these people were specials who had to be incredibly intelligent and play the long hearts and minds game instead of braindead grunts who are trained to point and shoot, not think, which probably played a huge part in them quitting.

Having done loads of stupid endurance training and quite a lot with live ammunition and tank blanks I have had the whole autopilot mode kick in and understand how people would easily fall into celebrating it/doing so without question but personally saw that as another reason why I shouldn't sign up.
edit on 8-2-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: Kapusta
I'm sorry to hear that about your brother. But that is exactly the point we are trying to make. Your brother is not the villain, he didn't start the war. He didn't go to war thinking it was all about money and greed. I can guarantee you he went because he thought he was doing the right thing for his country. And people are on a military bashing parade because people like your brother fought in wars (of questionable legality AT BEST) they didn't start. There is a reason he went back another two times. Well there are many. But would he have went back knowing full well why we were there in the first place? No he wouldn't. He fell for the lies maybe, didn't we all. That doesn't mean he's the bad one in all of this. The corrupt government who sent him are and people who have no idea what he has been through ,and others like him, are of the opinion the average soldier is responsible for what happened and it's wrong. It's actually disgusting.

I hope your brother pulls through and comes out the other side as close to the person he was before he went. It can, and will, change a man but with family and support such as yourself he will pull through. Don't expect the government's help though. To them he is just damaged goods and it's wrong.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: sg1642

Ahh, may be because us Brits aren't raised on Cowboy movies and are too busy clearing up/trying to avoid US blue on blue.


In all seriousness though, these people were specials who had to be incredibly intelligent and play the long hearts and minds game instead of braindead grunts who are trained to point and shoot, not think, which probably played a huge part in them quitting.
I am British mate and thanks for the laugh. (I don't mean that in a mocking way I genuinely laughed at the blue on blue)
to be fair there are a lot of American blokes who are top quality operators it tends to be the fly boys who are trigger happy. If you don't mind me asking what training have you been doing with 'them'?

The whole auto pilot thing is exactly what will get you killed. If you aren't switched on to your surroundings you can bet some bugger in them will be switched on to you.
edit on 31121642 by sg1642 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: sg1642
a reply to: Kapusta
I'm sorry to hear that about your brother. But that is exactly the point we are trying to make. Your brother is not the villain, he didn't start the war. He didn't go to war thinking it was all about money and greed. I can guarantee you he went because he thought he was doing the right thing for his country. And people are on a military bashing parade because people like your brother fought in wars (of questionable legality AT BEST) they didn't start. There is a reason he went back another two times. Well there are many. But would he have went back knowing full well why we were there in the first place? No he wouldn't. He fell for the lies maybe, didn't we all. That doesn't mean he's the bad one in all of this. The corrupt government who sent him are and people who have no idea what he has been through ,and others like him, are of the opinion the average soldier is responsible for what happened and it's wrong. It's actually disgusting.

I hope your brother pulls through and comes out the other side as close to the person he was before he went. It can, and will, change a man but with family and support such as yourself he will pull through. Don't expect the government's help though. To them he is just damaged goods and it's wrong.



you hit this one right on the head ! thank you for this , i am going to relay this message to him for sure. I think his emotions are a mix guilt , i can't even for one min imagine the daily emotions he feels , but you know if i can get him to shift his emotions away from blaming him self i think that would maybe help him deal with this better .

for some reason he feels that by taking his own life would somehow make up for lives that he took ......

i hate war , i hate killing , i have a hard time killing bugs ..heh ... i just don't see how people can glorify taking a human life as some kind of honorable act .



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: sg1642

No worries. I run Obstacle/Survival/Eliminator Races for 'fun'. Last weekend I did the Tough Guy half marathon which involved being shot at with shotguns, bullets, tank blanks, smoke grenades, flashbangs and the like in simulated warfare but most of the training is a mix of cold water survival, general survival and doing selection/fan dance as I love the physical/mental challenge and camaraderie but couldn't hack killing people or watching others get killed. Plus I know all I'd do is increase the risk of others getting killed as logic goes out the window as soon as adrenaline hits me and I act like a puppy on speed.
edit on 8-2-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: sg1642
a reply to: Kapusta
I'm sorry to hear that about your brother. But that is exactly the point we are trying to make. Your brother is not the villain, he didn't start the war. He didn't go to war thinking it was all about money and greed. I can guarantee you he went because he thought he was doing the right thing for his country. And people are on a military bashing parade because people like your brother fought in wars (of questionable legality AT BEST) they didn't start. There is a reason he went back another two times. Well there are many. But would he have went back knowing full well why we were there in the first place? No he wouldn't. He fell for the lies maybe, didn't we all. That doesn't mean he's the bad one in all of this. The corrupt government who sent him are and people who have no idea what he has been through ,and others like him, are of the opinion the average soldier is responsible for what happened and it's wrong. It's actually disgusting.

I hope your brother pulls through and comes out the other side as close to the person he was before he went. It can, and will, change a man but with family and support such as yourself he will pull through. Don't expect the government's help though. To them he is just damaged goods and it's wrong.



you hit this one right on the head ! thank you for this , i am going to relay this message to him for sure. I think his emotions are a mix guilt , i can't even for one min imagine the daily emotions he feels , but you know if i can get him to shift his emotions away from blaming him self i think that would maybe help him deal with this better .

for some reason he feels that by taking his own life would somehow make up for lives that he took ......

i hate war , i hate killing , i have a hard time killing bugs ..heh ... i just don't see how people can glorify taking a human life as some kind of honorable act .
perhaps it is not the best message to relay to him because certain things in that post could trigger depressive thoughts. However you know him better than me and if you think it would help him feel free to. Just remind him that even though he has taken lives hurting himself will not solve anything. Remind him that his brothers that didn't come back would give anything to live just one more day. He owes it to them to tough it out and live his life. If you like PM me. Generally speaking, it isn't taking lives that is the root of the problem. It tends to be one hard hitting occurrence or event that sticks in your mind. Losing a friend or seeing one with severe injuries or killing someone in a manner that is quite brutal by comparison.it could be something effecting him that he doesn't realise that is magnifying the other things. Is he seeing anybody? A councilor or anything? If not get him to. Steer him away from drinks and drugs at all costs. If he has left his regiment (unit) then get him back in touch with some old friends. Preferably ones who were there with him. Encourage him to talk. He won't want to do it but encourage him.

These are the wounds and scars of war and every case like it makes me feel sick with anger when I pictures bush and Blair's smug sneaky faces.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: sg1642

No worries. I run Obstacle/Survival/Eliminator Races for 'fun'. Last weekend I did the Tough Guy half marathon which involved being shot at with shotguns, bullets, tank blanks, smoke grenades, flashbangs and the like in simulated warfare but most of the training is a mix of cold water survival, general survival and doing selection/fan dance as I love the physical/mental challenge and camaraderie but couldn't hack killing people or watching others get killed. Plus I know all I'd do is increase the risk of others getting killed as logic goes out the window as soon as adrenaline hits me and I act like a puppy on speed.
If Brecon is your idea of fun then you should consider joining up mate lol



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: sg1642

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: sg1642

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Tangerine

Already stated.
Narcissistic personalities don't like to die regardless of the killing done,their EGOS can't take it a good soldier has to gamble with their life.
They don't like to follow or take commands either.
If one shows up in a line unit and they "READ" as crazy they would be outed and NO one would patrol with them or might frag them.
You learn to read people REAL well when you could die.


So there are no sociopaths in the military. Yeah, right. You don't seem to realize that narcissistic personality disorder and sociopathy are two different things, by the way.
there are sociopaths who are police officers, doctors, lawyers prison guards, teachers. The list goes on. Your point is quite invalid.


You missed my point by a mile. I said nothing about other professions.
and that is exactly my point. You are singling out the military for having people amongst its ranks who have mental issues when every profession has them.

On a side note I was unaware that Jesse Ventura had sued Kyle for defamation for claiming he had attacked Ventura for remarks made about dead SEALs. Not sure what to think about that one. The man is known for his alternative views but I've never heard of him bad mouthing comrades, dead or alive. I don't think the legal case should have died with Kyle if he had made false claims because Ventura should have a chance to clear his name regardless.


The freaking topic is a film about someone in the military. Do you think I would be discussing shoe salespesons?



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Sorry but it's hard to see you as a 'volunteer' when your name and avatar relish in your chosen profession and you constantly bang on about it.

Sounds more like the behaviour of someone who relished in it, than the behaviour of someone with honour and ethics like the servicemen of WW2 who never spoke of what they did as they were people of valor.

Comparing a defensive war to an offensive illegal one doesn't help your cause either, especially given the one sided nature of the invasion making it like shooting fish in a barrel - not meant to have a go at you but to point out why others are disagreeing with your POV.


As for the film it's obvious war machine propaganda - no solider worth their salt would keep a kill count and profiteer from being a serial killer - they'd be ashamed they had take another life and want to make sure no one else was stupid enough o do the same.


I absolutely agree. You make good points.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: sg1642
If Brecon is your idea of fun then you should consider joining up mate lol


Must admit it had been a childhood dream (blame too many Andy McNabb books) but I'm far too busy coughing blood, inventing new swear words and trying not to break down and phone my Mum to even contemplate having a war going on around me. I can barely speak or remember my own name after it normally - last week was a -10c water/ice race and I was a shell of a man after finishing in 2:30 - the organiser quickly put us back to earth and told us people had to do far worse than that for years on end and no end in sight. I cannot fathom what it would have been like ,or even possible, to survive that. Also can't function in warm temps at all and have far too many metal plates/VDMs in me to do anything interesting.

Side note - I don't blame the soldiers individually (rasied over £5k for Help for Heroes after a mate died due to an IED in Hellmand) it's the glorification of it that I disagree with - war should be an absolute last resort when something everything has failed and mankind has to plunge to its most barbaric, personally I feel uncomfortable about any situation celebrating that - though was raised with a very strict 'the are no winners, only losers' environment so can see why it may seem extreme or inflammatory to others so appologies for any offence caused to anyone.
edit on 8-2-2015 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: cuckooold

It's kill or be killed, when it comes to war and peace, one has to use some rational analysis to see, that yes a soldier, a knight and a mercenary have a common goal, that is a common goal for the overall objective, peace for all, when you look at a sniper, every kill counts.

I served in the U.S. Army and for anyone that has, you have to realize the first time you have to fire your M16 or whatever your weapon is, you realize that sobering fact that you are a people killer regardless of the situation, you are trained to kill, so, on to this fact, the sniper is the elite people killer.

The only part of this skill is that we know that hand to hand is the dirtiest combat there has to be, so to avoid this, the sniper is that link or implement that will possibly minimize this messy aspect of war to a certain degree.

The perfection of killing from afar is what we are perfecting in the modern warfare scenario, the sniper is the first iteration of the precision smart weapon or smart bomb if you will that gave rise to the drone, to the super top secret scalar weapons that can kill.

I never saw this movie and I might see it one day so I can see what all of this fuss is about, I don't watch movies much, but I really don't think it will change my view of what a sniper is just based on knowing what I know, and for those that have to serve in combat, we know that is the highest sacrifice next to being killed in action, my hats off to the fallen.

My hats off to the snipers that managed to do their job and live to tell about it, if they only choose to and if they have the intestinal fortitude to deal with the very difficult job they had to complete, if any had mental problems I would hope they seek the assistance to aid them in dealing with their assignments.

Link to the deadliest snipers of World War II



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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While I can't exactly say WHAT US Marines have done (WTF?)
I can say I personally would have beaten the crap out of anyone who raped or murderd a non combatant or enemy,in violation of my military protocol. THEN turned them in after subduing them. WE DON'T murder or rape as a fuction of our service to think so is NAIVE and a bit ignorant.
IT is WAY more difficult to express WHY I am proud to a non combatant AND a subject. I WON when I took the field I'LL do so again if attacked I WANT my enemies to be aware of this...and as SOME might be aware Americans lack the HUMBLE gene when having trained and deployed as combatants.
I have stated repeatedly KILLING is the job ,winning is what is celebrated.If the war is illegal then I woudn't KNOW that being IN A UNIT.
ASK your SAS pals about the 7th Cav Desert Storm THEN you can talk about ME. I see no reason to be ashamed about a damned thing,regardless of wether my service was misused or I am TOO famboyant as are a great DEAL of American Reece troopers by nature.We won't be corrected as 'BABYKILLERS " as our forefathers were from Vietnam.Which is what SEEMS to be attempted here (To ME)
ALSO SAS ,SBS ,SEALS, Rangers ARE not SUPPOSED to discuss their service work it hamstrings further efforts and can divulge secrets the command doesn't want to see realeased ...like how the US uses SAS for wet work and the like as our own forces TALK too much to use them for black ops killing. THAT can get our politicians IN JAIL so they USE others who can keep a secret and get away with what ever they please.
edit on 8-2-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-2-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: sg1642
If Brecon is your idea of fun then you should consider joining up mate lol


Must admit it had been a childhood dream (blame too many Andy McNabb books) but I'm far too busy coughing blood, inventing new swear words and trying not to break down and phone my Mum to even contemplate having a war going on around me. I can barely speak or remember my own name after it normally - last week was a -10c water/ice race and I was a shell of a man after finishing in 2:30 - the organiser quickly put us back to earth and told us people had to do far worse than that for years on end and no end in sight. I cannot fathom what it would have been like ,or even possible, to survive that. Also can't function in warm temps at all and have far too many metal plates/VDMs in me to do anything interesting.

Side note - I don't blame the soldiers individually (rasied over £5k for Help for Heroes after a mate died due to an IED in Hellmand) it's the glorification of it that I disagree with - war should be an absolute last resort when something everything has failed and mankind has to plunge to its most barbaric, personally I feel uncomfortable about any situation celebrating that - though was raised with a very strict 'the are no winners, only losers' environment so can see why it may seem extreme or inflammatory to others so appologies for any offence caused to anyone.
you sound like you have the right physical attitude for it you never know. My days of being wet and muddy are over and I don't regret it one bit
Andy mcscab (his name is Stephen Mitchell) is an arse. His crime in my eyes is naming blokes he had been on the ground with, especially Vince Phillips, and bringing him down. He had no right to do it when the man was dead and couldn't have his say. Certainly not in the public eye. Guy is a to**er.



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 03:44 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: sg1642

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: sg1642

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Tangerine

Already stated.
Narcissistic personalities don't like to die regardless of the killing done,their EGOS can't take it a good soldier has to gamble with their life.
They don't like to follow or take commands either.
If one shows up in a line unit and they "READ" as crazy they would be outed and NO one would patrol with them or might frag them.
You learn to read people REAL well when you could die.


So there are no sociopaths in the military. Yeah, right. You don't seem to realize that narcissistic personality disorder and sociopathy are two different things, by the way.
there are sociopaths who are police officers, doctors, lawyers prison guards, teachers. The list goes on. Your point is quite invalid.


You missed my point by a mile. I said nothing about other professions.
and that is exactly my point. You are singling out the military for having people amongst its ranks who have mental issues when every profession has them.

On a side note I was unaware that Jesse Ventura had sued Kyle for defamation for claiming he had attacked Ventura for remarks made about dead SEALs. Not sure what to think about that one. The man is known for his alternative views but I've never heard of him bad mouthing comrades, dead or alive. I don't think the legal case should have died with Kyle if he had made false claims because Ventura should have a chance to clear his name regardless.


The freaking topic is a film about someone in the military. Do you think I would be discussing shoe salespesons?
fair one



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: bastion

I was raised by a WWII airforce Command pilot he taught me to shoot and indeed myself and my elder brother bonded with these ranges. He is a police detective in Nevada,I became ill with bad lungs shortly after Desert Storm,and failed to meet Physical standard(A1)
Does THAT render me an ignorant PHILISTINE or an American 2ndgen warrior?
The world WANTS cowboys from us repeatedly. Agressive,capable,motivated COWBOYS.
It's what the eastern force fear and liberals HATE as THAT is what we see expressed .
I would no more physically OPPRESS someone as a choice of action than YOU would (it's RUDE). I will not be insulted or have anyone I don't wish to touch me. Hence my resonses to those who would label myself or brother warriors as crazy by any measure. WE perform a function FOR the collective, ERRANT isolated incidents take place, not as a common practice and to think so is wrong.
edit on 8-2-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-2-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2015 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: bastion

I was raised by a WWII airforce Command pilot he taught me to shoot and indeed myself and my elder brother bonded with these ranges. He is a police detective in Nevada,I became ill with bad lungs shortly after Desert Storm,and failed to meet Physical standard(A1)
Does THAT render me an ignorant PHILISTINE or an American 2ndgen warrior?
The world WANTS cowboys from us repeatedly. Agressive,capable,motivated COWBOYS.
It's what the eastern force fear and liberals HATE as THAT is what we see expressed .
I would no more physically OPPRESS someone as a choice of action than YOU would (it's RUDE). I will not be insulted or have anyone I don't wish to touch me. Hence my resonses to those who would label myself or brother warriors as crazy by any measure. WE perform a function FOR the collective, ERRANT isolated incidents take place, not as a common practice and to think so is wrong.


Screaming in all caps fails to impress or convince us of your claims. How do you explain the My Lai Massacre? How do explain the torture in Abu Ghraib?



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