NLBS #36: The Totalitarian New World Order Starts in The UK, and it's Starting Now!

Haha... . Congrats ATS. You got me to watch a NLBS video. Seriously.

I call BS on NLBS and ask for specific details of the relevant statutory or other UK law which provides for border authorities to keep folk in the country blah. I covered the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act here in my reply on the previous page. I provided a direct link to the act of Parliament. I've read it. Nowhere can I see any provisions supporting the wild claims in the OP.

So, where do I find this offending legislation??? No links? Doesn't actually exist?

While DRIPA is not acceptable it is not at all what the OP describes, and it is being challenged in a High Court judicial review by two MP's and Liberty which will more than likely win as the act breaches EU legislation. Cut the drama and distractions NLBS and instead of just whinging and speculating on ATS you could Support Liberty in the Judicial Review, or email your support to the two MP's taking the action:

[email protected] Tom Watson MP

[email protected] David Davis MP

...oh, and anytime you wish to throw me a link to the legislation I'll be happy to follow it, but right now all I see is exaggeration and misinterpretation of law in the UK. By all means though please correct me if you have some referenced source I'm unaware of.

a reply to: grainofsand

BBC: Holidaymakers face arrest over outstanding court fines

Unless outstanding fines are paid on the spot, defaulters can be arrested and taken into custody.

If you don’t pay your bills, you could be banned from leaving the UK

“The police and immigration officers are jointly working to ensure the law is carried out to the letter,” said a source. “The Immigration Act 2014 requires transport carriers to collect passengers’ personal information and provide this to immigration and law enforcement authorities in advance of travel.

“Staff in the National Border Targeting Centre use this record of travellers passing through UK ports to conduct security checks on travellers, in order to identify persons of interest to the immigration authorities and police.”

Passengers who have repeatedly refused to pay their fines or turn up in court are being tackled at Scottish airports and presented with their fines to be paid on exit. If they refuse, they will be arrested.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord
So what's your point? The UK border authorities try to find people who don't pay their court fines. They have had power of arrest as a constable for years so where's the difference?
Courts search for those folk anyway, cops act on arrest warrants if issued, and border officers are just part of the state searching for people who owe the state, no surprise there.
Nobody is searching civil debts or the wild claims made in this thread. Your links only mention fines so I stand by my original request for the legislation asserted in this topic.

...and I wonder why human rights organisations are not screaming about this, just NLBS and similar.

*Edit*
The TV licence thing in your links is just slippery wording of sensationalist articles who are not clear that it is non-payment of criminal court fines for not having a license. I have a flatscreen for everything except live broadcast TV. The license is for the using a device to watch live broadcast transmissions. I don't have a licence because I don't need one so I can leave the country. I haven't been fined by a criminal court and refused to pay a fine. Sensationalist reporting.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: SkepticOverlord


...and I wonder why human rights organisations are not screaming about this, just NLBS and similar.

You can be prevented from leaving the UK if you fail to pay a fine

This greater sharing of information is designed to target dangerous criminals like terrorists and paedophiles. But because the legislation is so loose and badly drafted, it has allowed the authorities to target those who haven’t paid fines (such as not paying for a TV licence), and they are being prevented from leaving the UK.

The Freedom Assoication

The organisation describes itself as having seven core principles, namely individual freedom, personal and family responsibility, the rule of law, limited government, free market economy, national parliamentary democracy and strong national defences.

Also there's this stuff about the TV license fees.

A day in court for non-payment of the TV licence: ‘What do they want us to do, kill ourselves?’

A week after the culture secretary, Sajid Javid, confirmed a review of the law that makes non-payment of your television licence a criminal offence (unlike, say, payment of your electricity bill), magistrates courts are still ploughing through large numbers of prosecutions, at a rate of about 3,500 a week. Javid said almost 200,000 people were prosecuted in 2012-13 for failing to buy a TV licence, which costs £145.50 a year. “More than 50 were sent to prison. When over 10% of magistrates court cases concern this one offence, you have to ask whether the current system is really working,” he said.

Courts Jail 107 People For Not Paying BBC TV Licence Fines

The Ministry of Justice revealed the number of people who had been jailed from January 2011 to March 2013 for defaulting on fines for not paying for a TV licence after a Freedom of Information request by the Huffington Post UK.

Critics expressed fury at officials "hounding" television viewers to pay £145.50 for a TV licence, as people who fail to pay their TV licence fees can face a court appearance, prosecution and a fine of up to £1,000.

originally posted by: grainofsand
For those who might not know the legal process going on, it is highly likely that this UK law will be overruled by the Court of Justice of the EU. Here's a brief timeline of the situation up to now:

2006: Data Retention Directive became law for all EU nations. Supposedly to make us safe after the Madrid and London bombings.

April 2014: The Court of Justice declared the EU data retention directive invalid. This was a directive originally to harmonise member states laws and there was a combined case from Ireland & Austria questioning it. The court ruled:

It states amongst other things that the retention of data required by the directive is not such as to adversely affect the essence of the fundamental rights to respect for private life and to the protection of personal data.

EU Court of Justice website PDF

July 2014: The UK government, forced to review its own legislation by the EU Court, panicked and rushed through emergency law in only 3 days: Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 which is the legislation under discussion in this topic.

Same month, two Members of Parliament David Davis (Conservative) and Tom Watson (Labour) supported by Liberty formally applied for a judicial review at the UK High Court.

December 2014: Judicial Review granted by Mr Justice Lewis at the High Court with further support and submissions from Open Rights Group. This means there will be a full hearing with power to reject the emergency laws set in April.

The EU Court of Justice was clear about privacy with mass data harvesting, and the UK must comply with it's rulings.
The UK High Court Judicial Review is part of this slow process now, so although I share the opinion of 15 Law Accademics in an open letter to Parliament that it is illegal under EU law, the case will take a while to be heard, and right now the Government can 'technically' do what they like.

Yes it is pretty bad (potentially) but the drama is strong in this topic. The fascist/police state cries are a bit premature when it is likely the government will lose the case.

...oh and as for TV licensing, I haven't had one for over a decade. They write to me every two weeks or so and knock my door once a year max. I tell them I do not watch live broadcast television and advise them to leave my property or I will use reasonable force to eject them, as I legally can. They comply. They need reasonable suspicion to get a warrant from a court and not having a TV licence is not reasonable suspicion on it's own. Detector vans hahaha! Oh my gosh, I didn't realise anyone still actually believed that! Lol.

Some great information here. Thank you.

I appreciate the opportunity to have shared my contribution to your topic but it is still only non payment of criminal court fines, same as most countries, so I'll leave you to it. Sorry I don't see your wild claims and drama about it.

I found the english guy cringe worthy.

The TRUE horror of the TV licencing thing is that they hound you if you dont have a TV. Essentially they send letters out that are quite threatening. Essentially the BBC is the state propoganda channel. If you dont watch it they want to force you to. As such they outsource a private company to put pressure on you to pay.

Essentially its a bit like a dress company suing threatening to fine you if you havn't brought and paid for a dress from them, even if your male. i get about 6 letters a year. I also have had knocks at the door before.

However, thats all a bit besides the point regarding the ability to leave the country.

It always strikes me that you people think that conspiracies need to be really obvious. The truth is that people cant leave the country as they dont have the money. They work BELOW the radar. I am a high profile 'conspiricy nut'. I have a house in Florida and Holland but live in the UK. They dont like that.

However, my passport just expired and I had to GIVE UP MY OLD PASSPORT by sending it in the post and hope that a new passport would arrive within 3-6 weeks. About 4 days later I have got a text saying my passport is being printed and I will get it within the next few days. I sent it in second class.

Point is, getting my passport is an above board thing. They went to great lengths to give me one so I couldn't claim I was not being allowed to leave the country. HOWEVER, the real way they stop people leaving the country is by targetting their MONEY. In my case destroying my customer base an dincome so its not as affordable as it was. For other people it could mean finding that they loose their job. You cant leave the country if you dont have money.

Further, they target your movements. Last time i left, I had what I beleive was a govt agent infect me with a flue that left me in bed for 10 days. Its a long story, but a sick person move to sit near me on the plane for about 2 hours. Coughing and sneezing, and then left. Just enough to infext me by close proximity. I cant proove a thing. Another time when i got back all my phones were dead, 3 of them, all for different reasons. Another time I had a server takedown' on the very first time I arrived in the US that took the whole vacation to recover from. A takedown that resulted in no action, just because someone had 'complained' about something that I could legally do. Another time I cut myself severing a tendon in my hand. I had determined that I wasn't going to do any work on the windows on that trip, and then in a robotic manner I got up without thinking and on the first tug at a small bit of glass I cutt my hand. Nothing much, but it was enough to sever a tendon which meant I couldn't life my finger. I know you will think im a nut, BUT THEY PUT THE THOUGHT INTO MY HEAD AND MADE THAT HAPPEN. I have seen it many times before. They can do things that WE CANT OBSERVE OR SEE.

As such, all this crap about not paying you bills an dnot being able to leave the country is nonsense. The real action happens at a much higher level.

The thing is, I own a house I paid $14900 for. Its all mine. If I could work I would need virtually nothing to exist. The prison camp in the UK and the proxy TOTALITARIAN state is defined by financial barriers, not being able to own a home and having to work as a slave for whatever hovel you have, usually rented. In the UK they have BTL. This means outsourced government agents iwn your home and charge you to live in it.

I am an international citizen and the new world order doesnt like that. They dont like it because it means everyone would leave the UK if they did like me.

my florida home is www.floridagarden.co.uk

I also have a house in Holland.

My point is that yes, they dont want people leaving the country. But they are not so stupid as to put it into law. So they massage things to make it really difficult and expensive.

Violation for not cuting the lawn? Violation for not having a tax sticker on a car thats off the road? violation for having a settee/sofa on the porch because its not garden furniture?

Verizon trick you into having your copper wire cut and installing fibre and then not being able to go back and then having to pay $100 a month up from £20 a month?

Neighbours from hell partying from 7am to 5am? Ever lived next door to a crack house? It wasnt there when I moved in.

I can only leave the country as I am single and self employed.

You try doing anything other than a short holiday with a family or a job and your stuffed.

Trying to use credit cards? Have a zip number? have a social security number? Thats right, you cant have mail delivered if you dont live there and you cant have your address mailed to, only a PO Box.

Its all really difficult.

Their agents work in what I call the NEXT LEVEL. Its a bit like the MATRIX FILM. They can take over any mind they want, put ideas there, and action them. Around ever corner is confrontation, not opportunity.

My half brother went to jail in the US, they took his passport away and he wont get it back. That was about 2000 in Orange County CA.

In the UK they have malicious prosecution, they can give you a criminal record for nothing. Then you wont get into most countries.

I could go on for ever. International travel isnt much at all, but I can assure you that they dont like it. THey only want it if your PART OF THEIR TEAM, ie a manager or a consuming consumer of a package holiday. I dont do Air BNB but they dont like that.

Whe I buy beach gear I can leave it at my house. In fact, the stuff tourists throw away at the beach because they cant take it home with them, I pick it up and leave it in my garden. I have chairs, boogey boards, balls, frisbees, shuttle cocks, spades, buckets and umbrellas that I have found. THe ability to store stuff is something they dont like.

On my street I saw the US marshalls do a show of force shashing into a neighbours house. Of course it was not coincidence that I was there at the exact right moment to see it.

Etc etc. But ive been there for 7 years now, so as you can see, they dont STOP YOU, but they do everything they can to make it more touble than its worth. thats the true nature of the POLICE STATE. Maintaining the appearance of freedom whilst making freedom impossible through enslavement and high house prices, landlords that need to visit your property every year etc etc, and constant pressure on people that dont consume government propoganda, ie pay for the right to be indroctrinated via the BBC.

The sad fact is that most people dont even TRY TO BE FREE. I have.

This article from a day ago...

Peers narrowly voted that there should be no move to decriminalise non-payment of the fee before 2017.

Source

Currently it is a criminal offence not to possess an up to date TV licence, I remember reading a little while ago they wished to decriminalise it, sadly the upshot appears to be not yet!

Just in case it's not clear...Jail for not paying your T.V licence

Failing to pay your TV licence will remain a criminal offence - which could land you in jail - after the House of Lords rejected the government's plans to decriminalise non-payment. The Lords narrowly voted to keep it a criminal offence - by 178 to 175.

Here is a snippet from an article in the Telegraph last March...

According to the most recent figures, about 70 people a year are jailed for TV licence fee offences. But the scale of prosecutions for licence fee evasion is far higher and now accounts for one in nine of all Magistrates Court cases.

Telegraph

So for any doubters out there, T.V licence evasion DOES carry a custodial sentence in extreme cases.

a reply to: grainofsand

The TV licence thing in your links is just slippery wording of sensationalist articles who are not clear that it is non-payment of criminal court fines for not having a license.

Regardless, you are still in court because of non-payment of the original fee, stop nit-picking.

It all still boils down to being jailed due to non-payment of licence fee, as it is failure to pay the fee which lands you in court.

If you're struggling to pay £145 odd licence fee, a £1000 court fine isn't going to improve the situation, it is also disproportionate to the original amount owed.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: solargeddon

Get out of here, I have spent my entire life believing this to be true, I have even questioned whether this were possible (internally), but am sad to say I sheeped out on this one.

I believed!

I hang my head in shame and anger at being duped and lied to, so techinically they cannot ascertain whether you are watching tv or not.

In my defence, something which I only just realised, I was only a kid 30 years ago...six years old, so I gues I would have believed it back then and have never heard anything to the contrary until this thread.

Must research threats better.

Just to pick up a point you made to Techunique, regardless of the court fine being what lands you in jail, you are still being sent to jail because of failure to comply with the courts over lack of T.V licence.

Lets call a spade a spade, it is the criminalisation of the failure to pay the licence fee which lands you in jail, this is being sought to be overturned, however it has just failed, I think they will try again though.

As I pointed out to another on this thread, if you are struggling to pay £145 odd for the licence, how is slapping £1000 fine on top going to make you any more compliant?

Furthermore, a T.V licence isn't a luxury, it is a mandatory fee for those who possess a television (which is the overwheming majority of the country), just as Council Tax is a mandatory fee for living in a property, it is only the homeless who don't pay it.

The only way to avoid paying a T.V licence and still have a T.V in the house I have learned is to have a non-functioning arial, that way you can use a T.V for gaming like xbox, but not watch telly.

At least that's what the TV licence guy told me anyway

edit on 6-2-2015 by solargeddon because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-2-2015 by solargeddon because: (no reason given)

In my defence, something which I only just realised, I was only a kid 30 years ago...six years old, so I guess I would have believed it back then and have never heard anything to the contrary until this thread.

Must research threats better.

a reply to: solargeddon

Here is a snippet from an article in the Telegraph last March...

According to the most recent figures, about 70 people a year are jailed for TV licence fee offences. But the scale of prosecutions for licence fee evasion is far higher and now accounts for one in nine of all Magistrates Court cases.

Telegraph

So for any doubters out there, T.V licence evasion DOES carry a custodial sentence in extreme cases.

I suspect that's just unclear wording from the Telegraph. Its also un sourced so we cant find the 'figures' the article was referring to.

You cannot go to prison for not having a TV licence that is punishable by fine only. However you can go to prison for a non payment of fine. Courts do set fines at rates that you can pay and they don't lightly send people to prison for non payment but it is an option for them at that time.

Jo C., Barrister
Category: UK Law
Satisfied Customers: 65752
Experience: Over 5 years in practice.

Read more: www.justanswer.com...

But please feel free to go and look for some documented 'extreme?' cases where the sentence for not having a TV licence was a custodial one. I dont mind being proved wrong

The Detector vans are a myth started by the TV licencing company, as an excuse to knock on your door and confront anyone on record as without a licence - as they just can't understand some people don't watch that crap.

I have looked into this quite carefully, and they have never produced "radar van" evidence in court to support a prosecution - in other words it's a blag.

And of course never let them in, they have no power.

And I am leaving this country also ASAP, it's never getting better - some would say fight a revolution to restore balance between the powerful and the people . . . . .
I say there never was balance.

a reply to: theNLBS

This looks like it's going to be my kind of episode! Clicking it now.

But if you're a crazy jihad terrorist, feel free to leave the country totally unchecked. Hell, when you start to miss Western luxuries that you took for granted like toilet paper, sneak on back in.

what a load of BS. The OP stated you need a TV Licence for radio broadcast WRONG - FAIL. Even the interviewd british person stated this. Oh dear it looks like we have a Mr Angry who does not even know what the law is !!!

As far as fines are concerned:

1. Non payment of council tax - Yahoo if they get stopped at the border. Why the hell should they be allowed to go on holiday whilst the rest of us cover their non payment. Somebody has to pay for the roads being cleaned, gritted, waste removal etc etc

The argument about councils waste money on blah blah is a different at the end of the day even a conspiracists perfect council still has to pay people to do stuff!!

2. Non payment of court fines. Same thing. They broke the law and they expect to get away with it by going on holiday. Spain is a well known haven for ex-crooks hiding from the law.

3. The TV licence is the UK's way of funding the non advertising BBC. It is a far better method than having it funded directly from taxes which would make it a 100% government controlled body. That would be very bad. If people avoid paying it the rest of us are covering that.

This does not mean that the BBC is free from interference, what there is is the fear amongst the BBC execs that offending the government will p.ss them off and they will not be allowed to increase the TV licence fee in line with inflation. IMHO this nod of approval needs to be removed from government and placed in the hands of a publicly elected regulatory body that audits the BBC on the public's behalf.

4. Business execs on business trips being prevented from doing so due to non payment of "whatever". Well tough, they are being irresponsible. A responsible business exec will abide by the law.

I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever with anyone breaking the law not paying their fines and then moaning when their way of life is affected.

a reply to: PhoenixOD

I'm so glad my post showed up on your feed, it is distinctly not present on mine!

I have no idea why.

As I said to the other poster, this is just nit-picking, you would not be sent to jail for non payment of court fine, if you hadn't been sent to court in the first place for not paying your T.V licence.

Not paying you T.V licence is a crime, which is why certain quarters are looking to decriminalise it.

I think you and me and you and others will never see this the same way, as far as I am concerned you are sent to jail for non-payment of licence, regardless of the path it takes.

Moreover I would like to know, how for so many years they were allowed to lie to us about the techniques they had, or not as the case has become at their disposal, Why did we allow them to do this?

It is scary when you think about it, how much truth is there in what they say today? (in general), when you think about it, going back to the OP, on the one hand we were told proposals for stopping travellers were shelved, only to discover, they weren't, they were actually moved to another area of law making.

I watched an ad earlier with the "Handheld detector" equipment, thinking anything other than this being a rouse now is laughable, but at the time many were fooled.

And they wonder why conspiracy exists

It already has started in the US. Just accept your own country is in an even worse state.

It doesn't suprise me, i think its just scare mongering, the UK is trying to crack down on money it is owed. I doubt its practical to apply this to the whole UK population seen as 99% of the people these days have debts of some kind. I think its more to scaring people into thinking 'I'll pay that before i go, i dont want any problems'. To be fair if you cant pay you're council tax but you can afford to go on holiday there's something not righ there anyway...