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Why Arming Ukraine could be a dangerous escalation......

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posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: JBurns
Xc brings up a good point regarding free press and speech. I feel they omit a lot of information from MSM. To me, they're the true culprit.

But yes, as someone said, I'm more than willing to find a moderate stance. Its been getting quite moderate. I just hope for any solution not bringing out WW3. Its not worth a nuclear war.
I'm for any solution that allows Ukraine to maintain it's sovereign borders.




posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

...and not its government ?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

I dunno, I don`t read every post you make because I don`t learn anything from it.




and this would be why you are behind the curve on information.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Couldn't Russia just offer the separatists citizenship of Russia? Return the land and the people who oppose to Ukraine?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Couldn't Russia just offer the separatists citizenship of Russia? Return the land and the people who oppose to Ukraine?
I would fully support that.

Any Ukrainians who want to leave Ukraine and go live in Russia, gets Russian citizenship. I'd be behind that 100%, so long as Russian troops don't go around loading people into buses at gunpoint for the border.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

This is such a simple solution.

Really a sort of test as well. I can't see Ukraine having any issue with that, but who knows?

Why haven't they tried proposing this?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Perhaps even use a UN peacekeeping force to oversee nationalization?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: JBurns




This is such a simple solution.

Really a sort of test as well. I can't see Ukraine having any issue with that, but who knows?



Some foreigners receiving posts in the Ukrainian government and some people that were born and buried many generations of their ancestors on the land getting booted to Russia.
Seems logical to me.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: JBurns




This is such a simple solution.

Really a sort of test as well. I can't see Ukraine having any issue with that, but who knows?



Some foreigners receiving posts in the Ukrainian government and some people that were born and buried many generations of their ancestors on the land getting booted to Russia.
Seems logical to me.

Nobody is saying to forcefully move people to Russia. The whole point is that this would be voluntary.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun




Nobody is saying to forcefully move people to Russia. The whole point is that this would be voluntary.


And if they refuse to move from their land ?



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: kitzik

Then they don't have to? Fact is, as Americans will attest, we are free to leave when we want. Can't take your land with you!

Its just land..not worth nuclear war.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

This is because you are an American. A nation of fairly recent immigrants.

But even you, if in some unfortunate case of the government that you can't live with will be offered to move to let's say Canada or face nuclear war ...
I'm not sure many will like such "fair" solution.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 01:19 PM
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It IS an incrementalistic introduction of a conflict countering the Russians.
We haven't gone full Vietnam just yet.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 01:36 PM
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Putin and his governmental support as well as his financial backers want to have Russia a power to be reckoned with again just like it was in the Cold War.
Putin is a throw back....

One of their goals is to surround Russia with satellite countries as buffers. Just like in the old days. Poland and like countries should be very concerned.

Putin wants Ukraine for a variety of reasons. The most recent fighting in the eastern regions is the next step towards getting Ukraine. It's my understanding the majority of the Ukrainian population does not want to be under Russian rule. Therefore, Russia is indeed invading a sovereign nation. I believe Russia has no intention of agreeing to a political solution. Although they may say they do but their recent action say otherwise.

Obama did not have the backbone to stand up to Putin when Putin began the campaign to take over Ukraine. I personally felt Obama should have sent a very strong message to Putin to stay the he'll out of Ukraine. Obama with the support of the Ukraine should have sent in NATO lead by the USA military into Ukraine to show Putin he needs to back off. This is the only way Putin would understand.

I believe we owe Ukraine support so that they can be a sovereign country to choose whatever foreign relations they want.

The USA populous is tired of going to meaningless long term wars and having our soldiers die or be maimed. And an ungodly amount of USA wealth being spend on these types of wars.

If Ukraine wants support then the next best thing to do is provide them with training and weapons so they have a fighting chance. And yes.... It will be a bloody awful mess. Many civilians will be in harms way.

a reply to: stirling



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

This is such a simple solution.



But its not because its not about citizenship. Its not even about Russian heritage.

It IS about Russian having a paranoid reaction to Ukraine being independent of Moscow's control. Putin has this paranoid outlook that NATO is on this planet solely to take Russia away from him, even though NATO nations have bordered Russia for the last 20 years.

Everything Russia has done in Ukraine is geared towards Russian control and nothing else.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

This is such a simple solution.



But its not because its not about citizenship. Its not even about Russian heritage.

It IS about Russian having a paranoid reaction to Ukraine being independent of Moscow's control. Putin has this paranoid outlook that NATO is on this planet solely to take Russia away from him, even though NATO nations have bordered Russia for the last 20 years.

Everything Russia has done in Ukraine is geared towards Russian control and nothing else.
I agree with you, actually. I suggest this simply because it would reveal Putin's true colors, if they weren't already evident.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: ScientificRailgun




Nobody is saying to forcefully move people to Russia. The whole point is that this would be voluntary.


And if they refuse to move from their land ?


Then they can remain as either Ukraine citizens or Russian citizens within Ukrainian law.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

No other explanation that I have seen explains Putins actions / reactions.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Xc, I agree here too. I just think such a solution either a) solves it or b) exposes the real intentions. Its a win-win


I did some research regarding the cold war Bloc and I can now see why the Baltics are concerned.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Xcathdra

Xc, I agree here too. I just think such a solution either a) solves it or b) exposes the real intentions. Its a win-win


I did some research regarding the cold war Bloc and I can now see why the Baltics are concerned.
Poland is also concerned. As is Latvia.



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