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Obama uses National Prayer Breakfast to defend Islam and criticize Christianity

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posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Wait! You mean the Arabs didn't march a bunch of Africans across the Sahara at the very same time to sell them into slavery and justify in the name of Islam? If he's talking history, he might as well tell the whole story ...


So what if they did? Christians bought them - brought them back on ships - resold them and kept them as slaves

Are you saying that what Christians did is OK because it's what the Muslims did?




posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: infolurker

He's making a case for innocent Muslims - the comparisons suggest that there is plenty of blame to go around

Would you like to come right out and say that there is no such thing as an innocent Muslim, and that in fact - Christians can do no wrong? You might as well...

Obama hails Dalai Lama, condemns the Islamic State at National Prayer Breakfast

Faith, he said, is being "twisted and distorted" and "used as a weapon" by the Islamic State, which he said subjects women to rape as an act of war and persecutes religious minorities. He also warned of groups using religion as a means for carrying out brutality in Africa and a rising tide of anti-Semitism and hate crimes in Europe. Faith has been warped and misrepresented in the past -- from the Crusades to the Inquisition to slavery to Jim Crow, he said.

Emphasis mine

What are you saying? Obama is a secret Muslim? Obama is siding with ISIS? Obama doesn't know the difference between good Muslims and bad Muslims...no, wait - there's no such thing as a good Muslim

Christians never do anything wrong

But - this is a predominantly Christian nation. We bombed the living daylights out of Iraq - destroyed that country, pretty much abandoned them to their fate - and this was all because of what?

Yet, here you are bleating about what Obama said at a prayer meeting - and you can't even get that right

edit on 2/5/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: beezzer


I can't say I'm shocked or even surprized by what the president said.


I'm not confident that you even understood what the president said

Why don't you explain it to me



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:45 PM
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hmmmm were the crusades a bad thing?



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:47 PM
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originally posted by: Dr0neT3k

originally posted by: Prezbo369

originally posted by: infolurker
news.yahoo.com...

“Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ,” Obama said. “In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ"




He hasn't lied though has he?.....hes 100% accurate

So let met get this straight. Islam isn't a problem, but lets spend some time criticizing Christians for things that happened multiple hundreds of years ago?


Sounds to me like he has been reading ATS.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Ummm, no. There were two separate slave markets.

One was on the Gold Coast for slaves headed overseas. This was the one with the infamous slave ships. The one no one ever talks about is the one for the ME Arab Muslim market. It was where many African women and children disappeared. Those slaves were marched directly over the Sahara on foot, and it was at least as brutal and inhumane as the ships.

Those slaves were sold to Muslims, not Christians, and they stayed in the ME.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
He's using the common method of defaming the past of Christianity while shifting blame from Islam.

It's not reasonable, it's merely emotionally manipulative handwaving.

First off, Christianity during the Crusades and the Inquisition is a wholly different entity compared to modern Christianity, everyone with a basic understanding of the World should know this. There is no comparison of Islam and Christianity, there's a vast gulf of differences between these two religions, especially when dealing with questions of violence and belligerence.

Secondly, I would say that this cycle of violence is rather unique to the Middle East, all adults know this. I'd go even further and say that this is unique to Islam itself. It's a matter of fact that Islam has always been at war with the world around it, in earlier times and in modern times. This is a known and acknowledged fact of history and no matter how hard muslims and their apologists try to obfuscate this basic fact, it does remain a fact.

As Samuel P. Huntington astutely observed:

In Eurasia the great historic fault lines between civilizations are once more aflame. This is particularly true along the boundaries of the crescent-shaped Islamic bloc of nations, from the bulge of Africa to central Asia. Violence also occurs between Muslims, on the one hand, and Orthodox Serbs in the Balkans, Jews in Israel, Hindus in India, Buddhists in Burma and Catholics in the Philippines. Islam has bloody borders.


And this is really the meat of the whole conversation of Islam in the West, the elephant in the room the left refuses to acknowledge. They'll expend considerable energy in devising increasingly bizarre mental acrobatics just to avoid facing this. You'll have feminists and such defending muslim chauvinism to the death before they would ever even admit that such a problem could exist. Likewise you'll have jews defending increasingly anti-semitic segments of the muslim population.

And who's wrong is everything? You guessed it, white people, always.

One could write a book on the severe abundance of cognitive dissonance and straight up delusion that manages to grip a majority of the population. It's a collective psychosis on the scale of the Third Reich, which is highly amusing because barring rogue states and such these two forces are pretty much the modern manifestation of fascism. They're simply brainwashed and if they had lived during the 30's in Germany they would have been conforming nazis, not the persecuted political dissidents they would have imagined themselves to be. Because these are followers and conformists, not trailblazers and revolutionaries. They conform wholly to what the media and the modern ideological and political zeitgeist tells them to.

As Winston Churchill once remarked, the fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists.

Opponents in this debate never have a leg to stand on, this is why media and proponents are mainly preoccupied with demonizing, shaming, ostracizing and deflecting. They never respond to actual arguments and if they do their arguments are always lacking. It's a testament to our degenerate culture and our pitiable ignorance that massive lies like these can circulate and even dominate conventional thought with such a stranglehold.

Hmpf..

Oh, and Obama is a spineless puppet that is doing his utmost to divide the US by all means necessary.

You're gonna defend Islam in the aftermath of terrorist attacks on the West all the while pointing your finger at Christianity?
He's a troll dancing to the tune of his masters. His objective is simple and obvious and has been so for as long as he's been in the spotlight, he has been serving the same interests and advancing all the same policies and trends that his predecessors have.

Wake up America, wake up Europe!

The enemy is not on our doorstep, the enemy is within, it's in our home and has been for a long time. It is high time we take the bull by its horns and root these traitors and instigators out.


I love you



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

You said it right...

anti-Balaka & Africa are not newsworthy because...

Well I don't know why "because"...

I mean the media doesn't mind bringing up Boko Haram...
So it can't be the Africa thing...

Hmmmm, what separates Boko Haram & anti-Balaka...

Can't put my finger on it?



I've heard the Bible has all the answers, I'm off to check that for reference.




Wish we could applaud mods & owners.
edit on 5-2-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:06 PM
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Speaking of modern genocide committed by Christians, should we bring in the acts of the Nazis in Germany before and during WWII?

Mr. Hitler certainly thought he was doing Jesus' will ... as he shows in one of many quotes:




"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact our movement is Christian.


(Reference: From a speech in Passau 27 October 1928 Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf; Holy Reich: Nazi conceptions of Christianity, 1919–1945. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 60–61)

At least, the Vatican thought he was an okay guy ... they even signed a treaty with him.

(Reference: Peter Hoffmann; The History of the German Resistance 1933–1945; 3rd Edn (First English Edn); McDonald & Jane's; London; 1977; p.14)

(PS: Don't bother to jump through the hoops of proving that Hitler and the Nazis were not a Christian movement. They claimed to be, and they were treated with by the largest Christian denomination in the world.)



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: TheLaughingGod



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

His whole schtick was "look at what the Jews have done throughout history"...

Prior to 1948, the only thing I think of that is frowned upon in Jewish history is a very famous Crucifixion.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:12 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Gryphon66

His whole schtick was "look at what the Jews have done throughout history"...

Prior to 1948, the only thing I think of that is frowned upon in Jewish history is a very famous Crucifixion.


I think a point might be along the lines of "let the one that is without sin cast the first stone."

Can't remember who said that, exactly...



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




Speaking of modern genocide committed by Christians, should we bring in the acts of the Nazis in Germany before and during WWII?


Only someone pushing intellectual dishonesty would.



Adolf Hitler was raised by an anti-clerical, skeptic father and devout Catholic mother.[1] Baptized as an infant and confirmed at the age of fifteen, he ceased attending Mass and participating in the sacraments in later life.[2][3] In adulthood, Hitler became disdainful of Christianity, but in the pursuit and maintenance of power was prepared to delay clashes with the churches out of political considerations


en.wikipedia.org...

And:



What does Christianity mean today? National Socialism is a religion. All we lack is a religious genius capable of uprooting outmoded religious practices and putting new ones in their place. We lack traditions and ritual. One day soon National Socialism will be the religion of all Germans. My Party is my church, and I believe I serve the Lord best if I do his will, and liberate my oppressed people from the fetters of slavery. That is my gospel. Diary entry for October 16, 1928. [1


en.wikiquote.org...

So I am calling bullsnip.

The Nazi's were not christian's doing the lords work.

Unless God was Hitler.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: neo96


Christianity with it's flaws sorted most of it's medieval crap out centuries ago.

Mmm. All but the ones in Africa pouring acid down children's throats and burning them for 'witchcraft'. Yeah - real medieval, and still going on.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: neo96


excellent counter-point argument

take it to the Max so-as-to shock-&-awe the opposition. maybe that will get the attention of maybe 10% of those radicals who do not really think but merely react



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: neo96




The Nazi's were not christian's doing the lords work.




The Pope, at the time, disagrees with you. Hitler was a Catholic and was NEVER excommunicated. He was, in fact, in good standing with the Church.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Of course, you're calling "bullsnip" (that never ceases to be such a cute turn-of-phrase.) because the facts don't agree with your agenda.

Of course, Christians now don't want anything to do with Hitler or the Nazis, at least, not in public.

But, uh ... is Wikipedia all you've got to refute known history?



Despite how often Christian apologists try to argue that Adolf Hitler is an example of the evil caused by atheism and secularism, the truth is that Hitler often proclaimed his own Christianity, how much he valued Christianity, how important Christianity was to his life, and even how much he was personally inspired by Jesus - his "Lord and Savior." Like many German Christians of the time, however, Hitler saw Jesus Christ in a very different light from what is normally the case.


Adolf Hitler: I feel that my Lord and Savior is a Fighter

Still, remember, I questioned whether bringing those facts up in this conversation would add to the discussion.

But, you know, there are a multitude of PRESENT DAY Christian groups like the Christian Identity movements (one of which is the well-known Aryan Nation) sort of cast doubt on the position that Hitler and the Nazis were not good Christians, as these are unquestionably modern movements, and they are freely advocating both Nazi and Christian propaganda.

Many American Neo-Nazis and like-minded, at least, seem to be really strong Christians, and almost all of them advocate violence and terrorist action.

And finally let me say, I really got a belly-chuckle from hearing you, Neo, use the words "intellectual dishonesty."



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




Of course, you're calling "bullsnip" (that never ceases to be such a cute turn-of-phrase.) because the facts don't agree with your agenda.


Miss THIS FACT ?



Adolf Hitler was raised by an anti-clerical, skeptic father and devout Catholic mother.[1] Baptized as an infant and confirmed at the age of fifteen, he ceased attending Mass and participating in the sacraments in later life.[2][3] In adulthood, Hitler became disdainful of Christianity, but in the pursuit and maintenance of power was prepared to delay clashes with the churches out of political considerations


Hitler pandered to the church like all good little politicians do. Whisper sweet nothings in their ears. Then stab them in the back.

STOPPED attending masses. Which means Hitler was not a practicing christian.

Then how the hell can anyone ignore Goebells there ?

The Nazis propaganda minister.




What does Christianity mean today? National Socialism is a religion. All we lack is a religious genius capable of uprooting outmoded religious practices and putting new ones in their place. We lack traditions and ritual. One day soon National Socialism will be the religion of all Germans. My Party is my church, and I believe I serve the Lord best if I do his will, and liberate my oppressed people from the fetters of slavery. That is my gospel. Diary entry for October 16, 1928. [1


There is no possible way that can be argued.

The only religion that played a part in world war two was those that deified Hitler, and the 3rd Reich.



The Roman Catholic Church suffered persecution in Nazi Germany. The Nazis claimed jurisdiction over all collective and social activity, interfering with Catholic schooling, youth groups, workers' clubs and cultural societies.[1] Nazi ideology could not accept an autonomous establishment, whose legitimacy did not spring from the government. It desired the subordination of the church to the state.[2] The Nazi leadership hoped to dechristianise Germany in the long term.[3] Aggressive anti-Church radicals like Propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and Hitler's "deputy" Martin Bormann saw the kirchenkampf campaign against the Churches as a priority concern, and anti-church and anticlerical sentiments were strong among grassroots party activists.[4][5] Hitler himself also held radical instincts on the Church Question, but was prepared to restrain his anticlericalism out of political considerations, seeing dangers in strengthening the church through persecution


Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany



Hitler's ideologues Goebbels, Himmler, Rosenberg and Bormann hoped to de-Christianize Germany, or at least distort its theology to their point of view.[10][11] The regime moved to close all Catholic institutions which were not strictly religious. Catholic schools were shut by 1939, the Catholic press by 1941.[12][13] Clergy, women and men religious, and lay leaders were targeted. During the course of Hitler's rule, thousands were arrested, often on trumped up charges of currency smuggling or "immorality".[14] Germany's senior cleric, Cardinal Bertram, developed an ineffectual protest system, leaving broader Catholic resistance to individual conscience. By 1937 the church hierarchy, which initially sought dètente, was highly disillusioned. Pius XI issued the Mit brennender Sorge encyclical. It condemned racism, accused the Nazis of violations of the Concordat and "fundamental hostility" to the church.[14] The regime responded by renewing its crackdown and propaganda against Catholics.[12] Despite violence against Catholic Poland, some German priests offered prayers for the German cause at the outbreak of war. Nevertheless, security chief Reinhard Heydrich soon orchestrated an intensification of restrictions on church activities. Expropriation of monasteries, convents and church properties surged from 1941. Bishop August von Galen's ensuing 1941 denunciation of Nazi euthanasia and defence of human rights roused rare popular dissent. The German bishops denounced Nazi policy towards the church in pastoral letters, calling it "unjust oppression".[15][1


Catholic Church and Nazi Germany

Yeah BULL SNIP.
edit on 5-2-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:31 PM
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I notice that the argument about Hitler being Christian is being touted as a wonderful example of modern Christianity. But by the same logic you ignorant fools should be using that same comparison with ISIS to Islam! But no, it's so easy to bash Christianity but like pulling teeth to criticize Islam. And yes I am calling out some of you as being ignorant. So used to western thinking that religion, at least our western ones are fodder to be mocked and ridiculed yet won't say a peep about the atrocities done in the name of other religions. As any looking into how most of the various flavors of Islam treat those who mock their religion should give you a clue as to what the thinking is. Get off your intellectual high horses and start really looking at how followers of Islam in their home turf deal with just the separate teachings of Islam. That is the difference between Islam and Christianity.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: neo96

So, all the Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc. who have never attended the Mass at all ... are not Christian, in your view?

Since the test for Christianity seems to be attending Mass ... at least, not attending Mass would disqualify Mr. Hitler, in your opinion.

As far as your facts, you're quoting a Wikipedia article (and not even bothering to take out the reference numbers). Wiki is great for consolidating references, but the trick is, you actually have to run the references to find the actual quotes.

Are you denying that the Catholic Church made a treaty with the Nazis? Are you denying that the Pope had a meeting with Adolf Hitler and blessed his efforts?

But enough about Hitler and the Nazis. The facts are the facts and they are obvious. But I knew that would be a sticking point for many.

Care to address the several hundred Neo-Nazi groups in this country that claim to be representing TRUE Christianity?

Or are they all merely doing it for propganda too?

... AND if they are, is it possible, just possible that sometimes terrorist groups claim the name and features of religions for which they have no real right and further do not in any way, shape, form or fashion represent ALL members of that religion?

Huh ... imagine that.




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