opinions are not created equal.

I am so sick and tired of "respecting everyones opinion." Blasphemy, right? This idea that we need to tolerate nonsense and stupidity from others makes it impossible for the masses to understand basic, undeniable, facts. The truth is not different for everyone, the truth is the truth. You can believe the sky is made of coconuts all day long, but it's #ing wrong and I will tell you it's wrong, I will certaintly not respect your imbecile like veiwpoint or conscede it is a matter of opinion. "I like chocolate ice cream over vanilla" is an opinion, "the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter is a constant" is a fact. If you come in saying pi varies, that is not an opinion, that is you being an uninformed ignoramus. Science has rigid guidelines for varifying claims, it has an established system of peer review and expects your results to be repracible to anyone with the means to carry out the same experiment. That is how we ascertain facts, not by picking our "opinions" on the fundamental nature of reality based on which idea sounds the best to your individual personality.

/rant

a reply to: dr1234

Well, first of all, I have to say that I appreciate your sentiments.

There are certainly topics out there, which spawn opinion despite the fact that the subject matter is objective not subjective in nature. However, where science is concerned, one must be quite careful to accept that scientific understanding is changing all of the time. Its basic principles do not, but some of its out workings do, and that is the wonderful thing about good science. It challenges not only the conceptions of the scientist working on the theory or the practical applications of a science, but the field in general.

Hawking did it, Higgs arguably, and of course those marvellous individuals who discovered DNA, and then went for a pint!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Crick and Watson went for a pint afterwards ?

Those cads !

a reply to: CranialSponge

Well indeed they did!

The first thing they did when they realised the import of what they had found, was to burst into the nearest pub, and announce that they had "discovered the secret of life!".

en.m.wikipedia.org...(pub)

a reply to: TrueBrit

en.m.wikipedia.org...(pub)

Uh...

You didn't happen to be researching the 'eagle' in another tab window whilst you were digging for your story on the Crick/Watson ventures, were you ?

*snicker snicker*

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: TrueBrit

en.m.wikipedia.org...(pub)

Uh...

You didn't happen to be researching the 'eagle' in another tab window whilst you were digging for your story on the Crick/Watson ventures, were you ?

*snicker snicker*

TrueBrit just got pwned. & that's a fact, not an opinion

a reply to: dr1234

The problem with science is that it is driven by money, grants and agendas just like everything else in our society. You cannot believe everything even if it is peer reviewed science because everything is manipulated and corrupted by the all-mighty dollar.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

I guess it's a good thing he was only researching the eagle and not some "unsavory" type of stuff that might damage us for life...

Most people are heteronomous moral agents--sheeple, for lack of a better term.

autonomous moral agents are what ATS values--people who think for themselves, deny ignorance, and have their own opinions.

opinions do not equal being correct.

and opinions mean little at all--it's the truth that matters.

Opinions can be stupid or they can be well-informed. But don't be mean to the people with ignorant opinions--instead try to be kind and be like the man who has seen the light after leaving the cave and who decides to return back into the cave to help others see the light, too. It's a painful and arduous task. But your options are either go back into the cave and forget the light, leave the people still in the cave and go forward, or go back and help. I like the go back and help one. So did Socrates. And look at what it got him--executed. O.o

But it's the right thing to do. At the very least, respect those who refuse to leave the cave and move on. Casting pearls before swine and all that jazz.

I understand your ire. I get mad at stuff like this, too. But I know it's not right of me to get angry and impatient like that. I have to work on being more patient and less frustrated lol

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: dr1234

Well, first of all, I have to say that I appreciate your sentiments.

There are certainly topics out there, which spawn opinion despite the fact that the subject matter is objective not subjective in nature. However, where science is concerned, one must be quite careful to accept that scientific understanding is changing all of the time. Its basic principles do not, but some of its out workings do, and that is the wonderful thing about good science. It challenges not only the conceptions of the scientist working on the theory or the practical applications of a science, but the field in general.

Hawking did it, Higgs arguably, and of course those marvellous individuals who discovered DNA, and then went for a pint!

I totally agree, the beauty of science, or rational thinking in general, is that it's always searching to find more evidence to improve understanding. I work in science, so I understand you're point well, but a true scientist relishes in learning new wonders of the world. Rigid and science don't belong in the same sentence imo (that isn't to say some scientists are rigid and closeminded, but that science as an ideal should not be).

a reply to: CranialSponge

Now that is odd. I definitely linked to the pub they went into... Oh well!

originally posted by: dr1234

I am so sick and tired of "respecting everyones opinion.

I think everyone has the (right to have an opinion)...but many times I don't agree with their opinions... nor do I respect them; but I always know they have the right to have that opinion.

When I tell someone I think they are wrong and I don't agree with them; I don't yell it; I don't scream it; I just calmly tell them; and then we agree to disagree.

originally posted by: caladonea

originally posted by: dr1234

I am so sick and tired of "respecting everyones opinion.

I think everyone has the (right to have an opinion)...but many times I don't agree with their opinions... nor do I respect them; but I always know they have the right to have that opinion.

When I tell someone I think they are wrong and I don't agree with them; I don't yell it; I don't scream it; I just calmly tell them; and then we agree to disagree.

Good for you, I said nothing about yelling or screaming though.

originally posted by: dr1234

originally posted by: caladonea

originally posted by: dr1234

I am so sick and tired of "respecting everyones opinion.

I think everyone has the (right to have an opinion)...but many times I don't agree with their opinions... nor do I respect them; but I always know they have the right to have that opinion.

When I tell someone I think they are wrong and I don't agree with them; I don't yell it; I don't scream it; I just calmly tell them; and then we agree to disagree.

Good for you, I said nothing about yelling or screaming though.

No, you're just ranting & being condescending.
& overly sensitive.

That's just my opinion, though.

originally posted by: dr1234
I am so sick and tired of "respecting everyones opinion." Blasphemy, right?

Not blasphemy at all, IMO. I don't respect the opinions of people who hold different opinions. I respect THEIR RIGHT to their opinion, but not the opinion itself. If I respected their opinion, I'd have it as my own...

a reply to: dr1234

I know you didn't...I am just saying what I have to say...had nothing to do with you.

a reply to: dr1234

Unless you know everything about the systems being used to measure something, you cannot know, with certainty, that you have accurately measured something (that anything is a fact.)

Moreover, a statement such as, "I like chocolate ice cream over vanilla", may be both an opinion and a fact. It may be a fact that said person does like chocolate over vanilla.

Also, a statement such as, "Chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla", could also be proven to be a fact: If we could duplicate all three things in the measurement (the person, the vanilla ice cream, and the chocolate ice cream) and test them, it may show that chocolate is actually better tasting, and so the measurement / statement / opinion would become a fact.

So, yeah, go ahead and have faith that your precious facts are solidified because science knows everything about all systems, and let the pi variant guy think what he wants too. And let you both debate it. I mean, for all we really know, it might be possible that, like the mind forcing changes within its own system, within its body, the pi variant guy might be able to change pi, and becomes right. Is he not within the same system as pi? Who knows?

...

What I'm trying to say is that just because you think something is true, it doesn't mean it is, or maybe it actually does - we just don't know yet, so don't be gettin' all mad and calling people uninformed ignoramus, when you don't know whats what either.

/counter-rant

originally posted by: caladonea
a reply to: dr1234

I know you didn't...I am just saying what I have to say...had nothing to do with you.

Fair enough, sorry for misunderstanding

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: dr1234

Unless you know everything about the systems being used to measure something, you cannot know, with certainty, that you have accurately measured something (that anything is a fact.)

Moreover, a statement such as, "I like chocolate ice cream over vanilla", may be both an opinion and a fact. It may be a fact that said person does like chocolate over vanilla.

Also, a statement such as, "Chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla", could also be proven to be a fact: If we could duplicate all three things in the measurement (the person, the vanilla ice cream, and the chocolate ice cream) and test them, it may show that chocolate is actually better tasting, and so the measurement / statement / opinion would become a fact.

So, yeah, go ahead and have faith that your precious facts are solidified because science knows everything about all systems, and let the pi variant guy think what he wants too. And let you both debate it. I mean, for all we really know, it might be possible that, like the mind forcing changes within its own system, within its body, the pi variant guy might be able to change pi, and becomes right. Is he not within the same system as pi? Who knows?

...

What I'm trying to say is that just because you think something is true, it doesn't mean it is, or maybe it actually does - we just don't know yet, so don't be gettin' all mad and calling people uninformed ignoramus, when you don't know whats what either.

/counter-rant

Haha, appreciate the counter rant!
To be fair, I wasn't calling anyone in particular an uninformed ignoramus, it was used in a rhetorical sense.