Next Level BS: Why is ATS now hell bent on shoving this turd down mine and everyone else's throat?

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Even though it is off topic...

Are you saying that the fact that Merck, the sole provider of the MMR vaccine with a monopoly over the market, who is subject to a class action lawsuit involving said vaccine does not cast any doubt to the issue whatsoever?

In preliminary hearings in September, US District Judge C. Darnell Jones II allowed the claims to move forward in two cases against Merck and information that came from two former virologists with the company. "The court agrees. Relators allege that [Merck] consistently and deliberately withheld pertinent information as to the safety and efficacy of a medication from the government," Jones said. "It is this alleged omission that is the grounds for FCA liability."

So while this has yet to be determined to be factual or not, wouldn't the sheer idea of the willingness of the supplier to lie about one thing provide at least the idea that they could be lying about another?

Also the information attempting to refute William Thompson (the CDC whistleblower) is as simple as you saying, "Why would the CDC cover this up?"

The video then proceeds to go on a tangent about Brian Hooker and somehow fishtails to thimerosol and ethyl mercury as the alleged causes of the studies findings. Fact is, neither thimerosol or ethyl mercury have been mentioned by Thompson and you are taking a leap of faith in thinking that just because ethyl mercury was the strawman for people and former arguments against the vaccine, that it had anything to do with the actual effects of the studies.

Joe says, "If you stumble upon the CDC whistleblower William Thompson in any article, it's bull#!"

How exactly you came to this conclusion with the information that follows is beyond me and should be beyond the mind of any logical thinking. You simply strung together three bits of information is a failed attempt to discredit the person when it did nothing of the sort all based on the premise question, "Why would the CDC cover it up if they didn't do it for exhibit A?"

Just because you don't know a motive, doesn't mean that one does not and can not exist.

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution
Are you saying that the fact that Merck, the sole provider of the MMR vaccine with a monopoly over the market, who is subject to a class action lawsuit involving said vaccine does not cast any doubt to the issue whatsoever?

The lawsuit is still in the pleading phase, and is specific to claims of potentially ineffective vaccines, not vaccines that cause autism. Our focus was on the hysteria surrounding the anti-vaxxers claims that the MMR vaccine causes autism.

Also the information attempting to refute William Thompson (the CDC whistleblower) is as simple as you saying, "Why would the CDC cover this up?"

They didn't.

The video then proceeds to go on a tangent about Brian Hooker and somehow fishtails to thimerosol and ethyl mercury as the alleged causes of the studies findings.

You misunderstood. The minimally toxic (in large amounts) ethyl mercury in Thimerosol was the blame for potential incidence of autism. But many people have still been associating Thompson's "whistle blowing" with Thimerosol and mercury -- Jenny McCarthy among them.

Joe says, "If you stumble upon the CDC whistleblower William Thompson in any article, it's bull#!"

Yes. Because countless sources are misrepresenting the tiny kernel of potential information that he may have said.

But we're watching it as there's unsubstantiated rumors that he's been granted whistle blower protection. But given the Obama administration, that's highly unlikely.

The vaccine debate has spilled over into this thread.

People can say what they want about not liking the show format but it sure does spark some debate.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

After pouring through extensive research, if we find a truth that is Next Level BS, that becomes our focus. We're biased for truth. Sometimes our conclusions run counter to the preconceived notions held dear by some. That's unfortunate. But we're not looking to tell you what you want to hear, we're looking to provide grist for the brain.

I think this is a pretty balls-out way of doing things. It would be interesting if you and Joe and the crew shared at times the most stunning instances when any of you might have had your own beliefs turned upside-down.

Considering that, I have to ask, did any of you know that acupuncture was bull# before doing the EMF episode? Or did you learn it along the way?

originally posted by: Bybyots
I think this is a pretty balls-out way of doing things. It would be interesting if you and Joe and the crew shared at times the most stunning instances when any of you might have had your own beliefs turned upside-down.

Somewhat in the next episode… and maybe not so much upside down as sideways.

did any of you know that acupuncture was bull# before doing the EMF episode?

With the exception of some indications that it can help arthritis pain, I've never held much faith in acupuncture. But I do have some faith in that, if you believe it's working, then your brain will convince your body that it is.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

With the exception of some indications that it can help arthritis pain, I've never held much faith in acupuncture. But I do have some faith in that, if you believe it's working, then your brain will convince your body that it is.

I honestly had no idea. When I heard Joe drop the name amongst others, I got backed up. Then I realized I'd better check myself first and it was one of those Google searches that took me to just the right document. I'm having to re-evaluate what I thought of the whole thing now. Fortunately it came at a time when I learned that other "Ancient Chinese Secrets" that I had put stock in were BS, so the blow wasn't all that severe.

I think it's that special brand of disappointment that I return to ATS for, there's other stuff but that's way up at the top of the list.

So, thanks for the show.

a reply to: TheNewRevolution

Would have to agree. But ATS lately has been about "winning" even if it means taking cheap shots in order to win, and it's really not so much about the topic or what ideas you have, it's about being right and basically dominating in whatever discussion. Even if it's blindly and without critical thinking just maintaining, supporting a status quo that is already popular. Get more "stars" doing that than about anything else.

It's like a new fad, sort of shooting yourself or ATS as a whole in the foot so you can get your kicks.

NLBS is obnoxious and whiny from the little that I've seen. Not to be put on a pedestal.

a reply to: Shakawkaw

Wrong. The owner has defined this as a "private members only" site. You can read...but cant reply, post or start threads without joining as a member and adhearing to membership rules and the Ts and Cs. Ask Skeptic Overlord and Springer.

They will repeat my telling you...they have explained that many times here.

So read all you want here...watch all you want...you just cant say and post what you want due to the rules of this "private member only" forum community.

So you need to see that. Youre mis-understanding and mistaken this as a "110 % Free Speech Free for All" where anything for anyone is acceptable. It is not. We members have rules to follow....readers and "lurkers" do not.

originally posted by: Springer
Gad, some of you REALLY need to get outside of your own thoughts, biases, and worldviews and research what's really happening around, under, and most importantly, RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.

Wow...

ETA: And re-read THIS: www.abovetopsecret.com...

-------------- This ^






-------------- Reality


Also, am I the only person who feels totally under exposed to NLBS?
ATS mobile ftw?

All you people who care about newsthings like vaccines make me LoL

I find NLBS entertaining. Kind of like "Ancient Aliens". I don't believe everything Joe says, but it does make me think and read more. I think Joe would make an excellent replacement for Brian Williams on NBC...swearing and all.

I think people are taking NLBS a bit to seriously.

Long time Lurker like yourself first time poster!

Breakin the Ice.
_javascript:icon('')
. Feels good!_javascript:icon('')
Like you, been lurking somewhere around 8 years on ats maybe plus

some . I feel you. Was just listening to CNN at 4:18 am EST in the

backround when I heard that pencil neck that he is in the imperail force

and said if he was in congress and got to decorate his office anyway he

wanted to. (The story is about congress decorating) he'd make it look

like the death star. (He's talking about star wars in the Capital of the U.S.)

( I'm pretty sure he has star war toy's in his room) So if anyone can pull

that video up 2/5/15 4:18am that'd be great..


Ok after that tangent.... Yes I agree... ATS is in a battle with itself. The

Divide is here.... what side are you on? I"m shy _javascript:icon('')



^^^^^^
will edit tomorrow time for bed but good to press enter

NLBS itself is not the problem here, as they are simply doing what anyone who researches a topic would do. They have the topic, the main talking points, information to back up said points, and with that they draw their conclusions and present it. I have seen this done countless times by the members here, and should you agree or not, that is up to you.

However, there are notable issues with the presentation and exploitation of the show that I can identify.

As said earlier by SkepticOverlord, the show is targeted towards users who are new to the site, or non members, which makes up the large majority of ATS related traffic. This fact combined with the extrodinary "In your face" approach to present the show via sidebars, the main page displaying the 4 most recent episodes, and then the part that REALLY gets to me, they ALWAYS HAVE THE NUMBER ONE SPOT! These two facts together put a very strong bias on certain topics, and regardless of weather they are right or not, it should not be up to ATS to promote them so strongly to such a large audiance, many of who will read it and keep it as the ultimate truth, simply because they were told to, rather than initiate a productive and thinking side and do some research themselves. It is literally killing the initiative to research.

The fact that they always attain that number one spot puts a bad image on the site for a few reasons, the first being that said position should be reserved for star and flag counts, rather than promotional value. You want to promote the show, I understand, but you've already done that on every single page on the website, I think that should be enough, right? But the worst part is that deserving threads, with earned stars and flags, and general attention due to interest, will NOT make it to the top of there. And should they make it to second place, the prior second place will be moved down the list where some people won't even go. It's all about face value. It's true many people will look into other areas of the site to find more goods, however many will only come and take a look at what is being "featured" and swallow it like a pill with water.

Even right now as I am writing this, NLBS has the #1 spot with 63 flags and 58 stars, Bigfoot has #2 with 68 flags and 59 stars, and THIS thread has 78 flags and 85 stars. And yet, this thread isn't even on the front page yet...

I've been a long time reader of the site, close to 7 years, and I still love to read everything on here, and all sides of the argument. I have even watched some of the NLBS episodes and agreed with the points made, and some which were questionable to degree. But to state my last point that is a negative part of the NLBS show, is the actual presentation in itself. Nothing against Joe, but the whole, BULL$#!&, STEAMING TURDS, and general use of profanity and unprofessional attitudes is what keeps me from really watching and enjoying it. NLBS does deserve a chance as every thread on ATS does, but with such promotional value and face value, it is rather dissapointing to see such a level of unprofessionalism.

The Top Topics page is different than the ATS Index page. NLBS does not always take the top spot except for on the index page. Atm the only top topics having to do with NLBS are discussions about the show (this thread included).

ATS Index (Home Page)

ATS Top Topics

The show is not cutting in line to be top topic as some believe.

a reply to: TheNewRevolution

So I was right the real reason for your butthurt is in fact due to you having an opposing view on the shows content.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I had never stated the show was taking the spot for the "Top Topics" page, I stated they were taking the "Main" page, which would be the "Index" page, which would be the FIRST thing anyone would see when visiting ATS through its raw web address. That, in my opinion, has a much larger impact than putting it on the "Top Topics" page. Although the point still stands, that place should always be reserved for the most current, earned and deserved topic.

a reply to: MindShine

But isn't that what "Top Topics" are for? Is it really such a crime to promote something they are a part of producing on their main page? Another thing I've noticed you and others say is "people will lose incentive to do their own research". I call BS on that one. That is a turd in of itself! Huge assumption and lack of faith in your fellow human beings. Just saying. I'm not trying to wholeheartedly defend the show. I agree to some extent the ads for it everywhere are annoying but come on, these rants are getting somewhat ridiculous. Not saying they are completely without warrant mind you. Member feedback is always good.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

While I agree with you on the part of Top Topics, the main index acts a a sort of Current Top Topics page. It allows you to stay up to date with what is happening right now, but giving face and feature to those worthy of it. I know for me personally, when I visit ATS the first thing I will look at are the topics on the main page. I want to know what everyone is talking about, what happened today or yesterday, what is everyone focused on. But I want to know that I'm looking at those because they earned the attention! If NLBS really was full of insightful information, strong points, important topics, (not saying they are not), then they should not have to promote it to that spot, they should allow it to earn that spot. They have already promoted it everywhere, from the sidelines, the index, and the popup that comes up whenever there is a new episode.

And to your other point, you may disagree with my view on what may instigate mindsets, but I have witnessed several people in the real world who have come to me with "Hey man, did you see this video! Look what he said! Look at the pictures and points he made! It must be true, I gotta tell everyone!" If you have never met someone like that, I truely envy you. Not everyone is like that, but not everyone is like-minded. And certain things do nothing short of promoting such mindsets.

Likewise, we are all entitled to our opinions, perhaps mine may be objective, or wrong in some opinions, however it is still true and definite to myself, as yours is to you.

a reply to: TheNewRevolution

The show is being pushed on the practical home of conspiracy theorists on the internet and is successfully making some of its member base, who have been around for years upon years, look like loons in the eyes of the public. This show, which is the first thing that new people are going to see upon coming to this site, discredits probably over half of this very own sites member base.

Thats interesting in line with what I've been reading lately about psyops. It would seem that one goal would be to bring visitors in and associated click revenue to land here. (theres nothing wrong with that - I followed the recent thread about needing new servers and migration and the need for hard cash)

I viewed 2 of the videos and concur with above posters how demeaning it makes one feel to be named a crackpot, by having a view in your mind even before you click play.
How they seem to work on a subconscious level is to plant a seed singing the party line/conclusion of the presenter.
I havent heard the presenter using words like "interesting" or "what do you think" at the conclusion. There is no opposition or dialectic if the narrative is strictly controlled.

I understand that controversy sensationalism attracts a certain mindset and one may justify it saying it "gets people thinking or its simply bringing oi traffic"

Heres the "paranoid" side of things. What if by bringing a video up you seek out those you are easily persuaded by 2 minute soundbytes, the potential casual shills from outside ATS who then hang around and become dedicated shills. You now have a "loyal hardened shill" who has found a new home. DO we really need that?

We know the power of 30 second spots on TV - how fast food franchises slot ads during dinner time.
We know this works. I dont think NLBS was created without some thought. What if like another poster said "ATS is already compromised" Sure we can think and see past blatant flooding. What if it drives out the deep thinkers or the the genuine curious who say" why bother"
Is this perhaps where ATS is heading?
"Americas biggest loser" "Big Brother" Purely commercial tripe?

Quality discussions may still be had on a dedicated channel on ATS by paid subscription only.
I think these are ideas that should be explored. I know like Truebrit said we can sift the tares from the wheat. What if it all becomes too bothersome and the variety and spice of differing viewpoints that made ATS so unique disappear.
An alternative to ATS wouldnt crop up overnight.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Watching people claim that Anti-Vaxxers are the worst scum and that EMF and cleansing is a farce is pretty much the dumbest garbage I have EVER heard, and it is posted on the side and these people affected by it are regarded as "retards".

I saw how that worked but I was hesitant to say anything. For the first few pages we were speaking of MLBS format and the labeling of dissenters,demeaning of people who held opposing views...with no mention by any of the posters of any particular topic. In other words no climate/change controversy, no "did we go to the moon" controversy

then this by SkepticOverlord

Objectivity, at least in the final presentation, is not the goal. Sorry. That's part of the problem with mainstream news, and how lunatic anti-vaxxers (for example) get a platform -- in the scramble for objectivity, misinformation is given a voice.

and then to "soften the blow"

Now… that being said, if you noticed, in the Anti-Vaxxer show, we did take a hard swing at the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex,

NOTE

lunatic anti-vaxxers (for example) get a platform

and will probably come back to that in a future episode

Let me make that clearer:

If you hold a position that you dont want your children exposed to toxins you are lunatic

buts it ok, in the interest of fairness

We may or maynot give you a voice in the future
and we are taking a swing at the Pharma Industry

Vaccines aside we have seen harm done by Pharma...are they not deserving of the title dare I say " Genocidal Pharma Industry" But why would I need to do that on ATS when most are free to make up their own opinions/

I'm glad we studied Orwells "Newspeak" in his novel 1984
Make of it what you will

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution

Thus, people who watch these who do not know the history and information about these theories are introduced to these things with predetermined opinion and I can guarantee many will take it and run with it without doing their own research.

A criticism that applies both ways. Some of the most telling threads are the ones started by an OP who does not realise they are regurgitating a topic previously identified to be fake. The number of people who instantly respond with some pro conspiracy comment is astonishing. I wonder how they look themselves in the mirror when they realise they have been backing a known proved fake!

Step 1, everybody, check the info being posted before responding no matter which side of the fence you sit DUH ! I mean come on, people lie, even here, so to believe in anything without checking first is just plain dumb.