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Conspiracy Theory Becomes Fact: Oil Collapse Is All About Crushing Russian Control Over Syria

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posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: victor7




Anyone supplying weapons to UA will pay through the nose and Kremlin will make sure of that !!


I am interested in how that works when the biggest supplier of weapons to Ukraine is Russia?

SO what your saying is that Russia can supply the separatists with weapons, but anyone helping out Ukraine is in for trouble from Russia...do you really not see the failed logic in that comment?




posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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It seems that support for the war is failing in the Ukraine.



An explanatory note to the document says that currently there are mass violations of military discipline, in particular, desertion from units and drinking alcohol, as well failure to execute commanders’ orders.

In late January, a new Ukrainian military draft for 2015 came into effect. This one is the fourth wave of mobilization since Kiev launched a military operation against militias in eastern Ukraine in April 2014.

It was expected to see 100,000 people joining the army in three stages throughout the year. However, the country’s Defense Ministry said on January 31 that nearly 7,500 Ukrainians are already facing criminal charges for evading military service.

The Ukrainian president’s adviser, Yury Biryukov, cited statistics, showing that desertion surprisingly was primarily a problem in western Ukraine, traditionally seen as a hotbed of anti-Russian sentiment.


Source

The War in Ukraine: Editorial in The New York Times Suggests US Is Looking for a Face-Saving Way Out



The editorial in the New York Times we attach below is the first belated acknowledgement that the only way of saving Ukraine and ending the war is by conceding federalisation to Ukraine’s eastern regions.

We do not know for sure whether this editorial reflects official US thinking. However, the probability is that it does.

Firstly, it is not unheard of for the US government to float ideas in this way through editorials in the New York Times. The New York Times is regularly chosen to do this because of its reputation and because it is widely read abroad. The British government used to use the Times of London in the same way.


Source

Poroshenko should not forget that he pledged to support Donbas special status law — Kerry



It is very important not to forget that Poroshenko entered into commitment to put into effect constitutional reforms and hold fair elections in Donbas, the US Secretary of State noted.


Source



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Why do you think NATO is upping its presence in the bordering countries ?


Because those countries don't want to be the next Ukraine, or Georgia for that matter.



The Separatists are able to defeat them right now if they want to.


So what exactly is stopping them from achieving this, as then they could have the whole country...or is it because they can't, and that's why they haven't?



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukraine as a country ceased to exist on Feb 22, 2014. The people in eastern regions are fighting for their homeland. Kiev Junta has not right to send its army to east and conduct shelling of the civilians. Russians weapons are for the self defense of the people of Novorossiya being conducted via NAF.

Kiev Junta better pulls out of several provinces or it will risk losing Kiev itself.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

They are about the same size of what the Ukrainian army now is, 20.000/25.000 troops, not enough to push to Kiev and to secure the Ukraine. Securing a country takes a lot of troops.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
It seems that support for the war is failing in the Ukraine.



An explanatory note to the document says that currently there are mass violations of military discipline, in particular, desertion from units and drinking alcohol, as well failure to execute commanders’ orders.

In late January, a new Ukrainian military draft for 2015 came into effect. This one is the fourth wave of mobilization since Kiev launched a military operation against militias in eastern Ukraine in April 2014.

It was expected to see 100,000 people joining the army in three stages throughout the year. However, the country’s Defense Ministry said on January 31 that nearly 7,500 Ukrainians are already facing criminal charges for evading military service.

The Ukrainian president’s adviser, Yury Biryukov, cited statistics, showing that desertion surprisingly was primarily a problem in western Ukraine, traditionally seen as a hotbed of anti-Russian sentiment.


Source

The War in Ukraine: Editorial in The New York Times Suggests US Is Looking for a Face-Saving Way Out



The editorial in the New York Times we attach below is the first belated acknowledgement that the only way of saving Ukraine and ending the war is by conceding federalisation to Ukraine’s eastern regions.

We do not know for sure whether this editorial reflects official US thinking. However, the probability is that it does.

Firstly, it is not unheard of for the US government to float ideas in this way through editorials in the New York Times. The New York Times is regularly chosen to do this because of its reputation and because it is widely read abroad. The British government used to use the Times of London in the same way.


Source

Poroshenko should not forget that he pledged to support Donbas special status law — Kerry



It is very important not to forget that Poroshenko entered into commitment to put into effect constitutional reforms and hold fair elections in Donbas, the US Secretary of State noted.


Source
Your first source is RT, so the spin there is obvious. You second source is from Global Research, which takes it opinion from a NYT editorial which in NO WAY states the US is "looking for a face saving way out". Rather, it's a pretty frank article on how Putin is continuing his aggresive actions in Ukraine while lying about it as usual, and how the U.S. could possibly bring Putin to the negotiating table. There is nothing in the article that even HINTS that the U.S. is looking "for a way out". Please research your own sources before you post them. Or did you expect I wouldn't read them?



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Problem with your so called spin is that the important information which is talked about comes actual from the Ukrainians themselves, but if you don`t care to read it because it`s RT, you will never see that.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Problem with your so called spin is that the important information which is talked about comes actual from the Ukrainians themselves, but if you don`t care to read it because it`s RT, you will never see that.
Oh I read it. I told you I read it. I don't lie about reading sources. Ukraine certainly did vote on those measures. But once again RT spins it to mean "Ukraine is shooting deserters in the back". Which has never been proven to have happened before, and is unlikely to happen in the future.
edit on 5-2-2015 by ScientificRailgun because: grammar



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
Chinese Money Is Backing Putin’s War

www.thedailybeast.com...

Why is China doing all this? In the Russian strongman, Beijing’s policymakers see not only someone who shares their general outlook and a fighter willing to take on Washington, but also a now needy and therefore pliable junior partner. With America essentially identified as China’s geopolitical opponent, it is only natural that Beijing seeks to fortify the Kremlin. The Chinese are “happy to join with Moscow to expand business in defiance of Washington,” notes Alexander Salitsky of the Institute of World Economy and International Relations.

=======================================================================================================

Like mentioned before, China knows that if Russia goes down then Beijing will be the main opponent to crush in the geopolitical ambitions of the AngloSaxon alliances. BRIC nations alone can make a target of growing business with each other at the rate of 20% a year, even if quality of the products is a notch lower than those offered from elsewhere.


No Chinese Money also backed the last 14 years of our Wars.

China has no Interest in damning America, it's territorial Interests are not actually in competition with us, none at least that wont resolve themselves in time like Taiwan or North Korea certainly will in the same sort of manner Hong Kong did. In reality these locations actually make for cross over zones for British and American and Chinese behind the scenes interactions, The truth is we are very intimately connected to China as a result of these locations and neither side is seeking to fix them or conflict over them any time soon.

No one really seems to understand China's hand in all this least of all apparently the Russians.

China is emulating the West, it's chosen it's side even if the secretive alliance is tenuous at best...

Draw a line from Syria to Afghanistan and what you have is a new Silk Road, bought by China fought for by the West the main trade item this time OIL, the US doesn't need Middle Eastern Oil but what the "Globalization" of the world needs is a Nation of 1.4 Billion consumers to replace the USA, China can't just "leap over" the Industrial era, it has to have the Oil and there is a very, very intimate relationship between the US war on terror plowing through 7 Nations in the ME and stabilizing that supply to China over decades, there is also the actual territorial aims of China, which do NOT include the butchering of the other East Asian nations but rather involve a Chinese desire to see the as satellite nations which precludes any desire for their destruction, resentments and disputes aside... South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and America are Chinas biggest trading partners... The ME however supplies rather unsavory religious concepts, are non Asian by race, has the capacity to rape China on oil prices holding back it's modernization, has historically been a thorn in China's side in regards to East West Trade and Conceptually are both lands via the Mongol Empire and the Middle Kingdom that China considers theirs and to be filled with "Barbarians" ditto would apply to Siberia.

Of course China would back Russia with funds. So would I.

When the number of migrant workers crossing the border into Siberia every year is as high or higher than the population of Siberia you would absolutely want Russia to do the following. 1: Turn it's forces West away from you 2: with a declining population both bleed itself of more young males and make it's population war weary 3: Cripple it's supply of Tanks

Then years later when the Chinese population in Siberia out numbers the Russian 4-1 you get it without a fight. You also get the next stage of the "war on terror complete" Syria gone and the Mediterranean open.

These are blatant Western tactics funding your enemy to it's own demise in war. China has oil rich Kazakhstan next door 30 Million people to Chinas 1.4 Billion, Siberia 9 Million people to Chinas 1.4 Billion, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan... source of Muslim incursion into China... the only thing stopping China's expansion in the end is Russia. So of course encourage them to war with the West.... The Chinese invasion wont even have to come with guns, it is the basic Chinese philosophy of "peoples War" They will go with workers and just not leave in most cases... There are Trillions of acres with vast energy reserves and demographically no one there but a few "Barbarians" and...of course Russia under a Nuclear Umbrella and China needs land... you would fund them to engage in anything that in the end can only shrink and dis-empower them. Russia can't afford "long term" conflict with the West the population is shrinking, every Russian boy that dies is a major loss for Russia, even if they take Ukraine it's in the long term still just a step to being more a part of the West for Demographic reasons and that's what Europe wants, that's what Asia wants and that is what the US wants and that's what a lot of Ukranians and also Russians want... Russia part of the West reduced to it's basically European borders and part of the EU, in fact the only ones who don't want this... Hardliners in Russia who are already cold war relics like Putin.

Funding one side against the other, don't believe me follow the elites Money and see how much Gold has already gone to China and how much money is now being held there, China... it's the new America.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




It is very important not to forget that Poroshenko entered into commitment to put into effect constitutional reforms and hold fair elections in Donbas, the US Secretary of State noted.


So maybe you should have added the rest of that...


” It’s very important not to forget that he (Poroshenko - UP) also made a commitment to implement genuine constitutional reform and hold new fair and free elections in Donbass. And if these measures are implemented, then surely we can expect that the axis of the measures set out in Minsk agreements will be implemented ” - said Kerry.


I also found this interesting...


As you know, Poroshenko protysnuv voting law on the special status of Lugansk and Donetsk region and an amnesty.

& nbsp; Then he demanded that the elections in these areas were carried out in time specified by Parliament. However, the militants had illegal local elections on November 2.


ukrainiancrisis.net...

You do understand that this was part of a deal Ukraine was all for doing, but of course the separatists were too stubborn to understand that, which is why they are where they are at.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: victor7




Ukraine as a country ceased to exist on Feb 22, 2014.


No I'm pretty sure Ukraine is still in existence, or you wouldn't have Putin trying to take back the east, and south of Ukraine.

And the funny part about it is the separatists would like to be autonomous while still being in and part of Ukraine as a whole.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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It seems ludicrous to Complain about russian propaganda, the news in the west is all propaganda as well, both sides show what they want you to see.

RT isn't exactly a bastion of free press, but neither are any other news sources. At least RT didn't spend almost a week on deflated foot balls.

More then anything the whole Russia west standoff seems to me to just be a way to capitalize on the boomers and their 30 year instilled fear of 'the big one'.

Of course Russia doesn't want NAto on it's doorstep, we in the US didn't want Russia on ours there was this whole big thing about a small island and nuclear armaments, I'm sure y'all has heard of it.

Countries operate like abused children, " well they did it to me, so I'm going to do it to them!" Hypocrisy is a way of human life, its not something that can be circumvented.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: nemonimity
It seems ludicrous to Complain about russian propaganda, the news in the west is all propaganda as well, both sides show what they want you to see.

RT isn't exactly a bastion of free press, but neither are any other news sources. At least RT didn't spend almost a week on deflated foot balls.

More then anything the whole Russia west standoff seems to me to just be a way to capitalize on the boomers and their 30 year instilled fear of 'the big one'.

Of course Russia doesn't want NAto on it's doorstep, we in the US didn't want Russia on ours there was this whole big thing about a small island and nuclear armaments, I'm sure y'all has heard of it.

Countries operate like abused children, " well they did it to me, so I'm going to do it to them!" Hypocrisy is a way of human life, its not something that can be circumvented.
Nobody is suggesting the west doesn't have a spin team of their own.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukraine is very much in existence and frankly I think Putin is grabbing cheese from a trap like a greedy Rat. Problem is the Cheese is Poisoned.

Even if he grabs a section of Ukraine he now has divided families across borders on his hands with those in Western Ukraine waxing more and more Western the issue then goes to terrorism over years and years and Russia is literally opening a hole in it's borders to a desire for more westernization, there are 45 Million Ukrainians who over time will want unification and resolution and only 145 Million Russians, 3 Million less then when Putin started and Siberia is literally turning Chinese before Putins eyes... All of this is the LAST situation you would want if your Putin a Russian Nationalist from the Cold War era by ideology. Russia in 20 years will be joining the EU, he's falling right into it.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: criticalhit




Ukraine is very much in existence and frankly I think Putin is grabbing cheese from a trap like a greedy Rat.


We can agree about that for sure...



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I wonder what Russia will do if the separatists actually win and they decide to stay with Ukraine. My guess is we'll see another vote monitored by little green men where the region isn't given the choice to stay with Ukraine.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254




I wonder what Russia will do if the separatists actually win and they decide to stay with Ukraine.


Well the separatists may not have a choice according to this...


According to the left-leaning Russian daily newspaper Novaya Gazeta, which cited officials within the Kremlin, sources within the cabinet of ministers and pro-Russian insurgents, Russia has abandoned the idea of either war-torn region becoming an independent state, instead preferring that both remain autonomous regions within Ukraine.


www.ibtimes.com...

It's almost as if Russia said well here we started the fun...now you finish it. Oh and btw you guys are on your own financially, but we'll give you weapons.

What a great guy that Putin is.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

They already have asked if they could join RF and Russia turned them down.

Russia isn`t interested in the Ukraine and the economic burden it brings, it`s all a bunch of crap coming from Western media.

Russia wants to have influence in the Ukraine because it doesn`t want NATO over there, and it can`t have influence if Eastern Ukraine isn`t part of the Ukraine anymore. It also opens up NATO coming again much closer to Russia, and that`s way too close for comfort to them.
edit on 5 2 2015 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Russia should aim for all the provinces on the NovoRossiya map and then have it become an independent state. Taking whole of Ukraine or hoping to have enough influence over Ukraine so that it does not join NATO...........is a too risky idea and will create problems later on.

Novorossiya as an independent state will offer Russia buffer from NATO and left over part of Ukraine can still be influenced to keep it away from NATO.

Push comes to shove, NATO can change its laws and be ready to have nations with internal conflict, join the alliance. Then what would Russia do? Within a week, NATO can have its troops land in Ukraine and then its a matter of direct confrontation of NATO vrs Russia.

Except for Poland, no other Eastern European country has seen much upliftment in economics etc. Even Polish cas is only a modest success. The only charm EU offers is the ability to migrate and do menial type jobs. Language barriers are bit too much plus there are also "non official" rules that have businesses not hire Eastern immigrants to certain jobs.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 07:04 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

All of which is irrelevant since Ukraine is a sovereign country. They get to decide what's best for their own national security.



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